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Archive 2017 · Pre-order: Sony A9

  
 
TMaG82
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p.58 #1 · p.58 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A9


scalanc2 wrote:
Then I stop writing.
Every time a new camera is in the market it is super, perfect autofocus, ultra fast etc. etc.
The same is for lenses.
After some months defects comes out from the same people which praised.
See Sony artisans or ambassadors or...
There is some logic in this which is commercial.
Here to point is at higher level because of the crazy price.
With the same logic a new A9R/A9S will cost 10.000 Euros/dollars.
If this seems normal to you.
Then for sure you can buy what you want. Also a chewing- gum cosint 20.000 dollars.
For me the matter closes here.


Simple economics teaches you that the market will dictate the price that the consumer will tolerate. If the perceived value does not exceed the asking price people won't buy it and the price will adjust. Same reason the Panasonic GX8 saw rapid price cuts because at its original asking price people weren't buying them. Look at the Canon EOS M. It was $800 or so at launch with terrible AF, performance, etc. Consumers didn't buy them and only until they were at firesale prices of $299 with lens did they move.

Sony isn't the only company to have brand ambassadors. How many Fuji X-Photographers are there that once the embargo is lifted publish first hand reviews that only seem to touch on the positives? Do you recall when the X-T1 was launched and every first hand review published by a Fuji X Photographer was singing it's praises that it was the best focusing mirrorless camera ever made but real world experience by non sponsored shooters proved otherwise?

Or more recently the GH5 was pumped as this great camera with no flaws but it wasn't until it came out that the video AF was shown to be seriously under performing.

It's the nature of the business, you want to highlight all the positives and mask the flaws. But that's just human life. We sculpt our resumes to show only positives and don't actively lost flaws. Do you write how many times you were late to work in your resume? Lol.



May 16, 2017 at 04:15 PM
TMaG82
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p.58 #2 · p.58 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
Now that is very simple - no usability improvements over A7MKII models in form of ergonomics. I see huge specs but nothing solved related to basic photographic tool handling. Joystick perhaps for those who need a joystick. Even that seems small. R-model is probably very same physical body.

This one user explained it very well with pics of R2 handled by a person with small hands. Seems to fit. Now sell that same stuff to gorillas who want to use all the advanced features as well - now there is an unsolved problem right there. So people suffering from large dimensions
...Show more

So me the canon camera that has it then? Sometimes the arguments made make me laugh. Like those that complain that their Canon lenses don't perform as optimally as they would like on the a7 series. It's through reverse engineering through a third party that any of that is even remotely possible.



May 16, 2017 at 04:20 PM
chez
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p.58 #3 · p.58 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
And why is there not REAL eye AF in A9? Like the ancient Canon tech from EOS3 film body where the lens will be focused where you look at?


I don't know, but it makes more sense to go onto the Canon forum and ask why Canon ripped it out of their cameras rather than coming onto the Sony forum where such technology never existed.

You are starting to really dig now at dirt to throw at Sony. Best to leave things as they are before you get really idiotic.



May 16, 2017 at 04:48 PM
chez
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p.58 #4 · p.58 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A9


TMaG82 wrote:
I can't wait for this to come out. Not that I would ever buy it since it's not my desired lens but it will address a need that the haters point to. They say it's a fail without glass and that's a reason why they won't buy it. Then Sony will put out the glass and they'll say but it's too expensive. It's easy to sit and complain when you weren't ever going to get it in the first place.


Yep...many seem to dig really deep to complain about Sony. Haters will continue as the better the Sony system gets, the more hate on they generate.



May 16, 2017 at 04:49 PM
MJKoski
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p.58 #5 · p.58 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A9


RoseandCharles wrote:
"People suffering from large dimensions" makes it sound like an ailment. But I don't feel so bad for them, since they have tons of options to choose from. It's us petite-sized folks that lack so many options when it comes to full-frame.

It's likely that Sony, being a Japanese company, is making stuff firstly for their native market and general Japanese sizing. They're also making what their engineers and designers think would differentiate them in the market, and size is one of them. If they made a DSLR-sized mirrorless like Samsung NX1, there would be complaints from the other direction, that
...Show more

I can tell you it is an ailment. I have problems finding proper shoes due to lack of right size. This month I had to search 9 shops to get new pair of running shoes (no, online shops did not have anything useful either). This bodyform of Sony FF MILC is a real problem for me, yet I want to be able to use some useful features like "Bright Monitoring" of R2 which no other manufacturer seems to get right. I liked Loxia 21mm if nothing else of FE lens lineup. Some really useful features, but so much other hindrances I gave up with it as Pentax did everything else better with K-1.

I am truly sad A9 was designed how it was. A7 series could have been the small one and 9 a bit more of everything, including size. A7MK3 models should have had A9 AF and speed, at least the S-model. But this, this is a wasted opportunity to steal users from 1-series CaNikon camp. See it however you like. I doubt many of you are really buying The Thing either, just defending the brand.

Hat tip to RoseandCharles for showing something real with the small hands picture. It is the exact opposite of my problem. Add-on grip will not solve it, buttons are way too small and tightly placed. No amount of customization will solve mindlessly placed physical controls. Rolling dial ergonomics even went backwards from mk1 models and so they seem to stay in A9 design. I do not expect for many to understand, I design user interfaces and A9 is a horror story as it is - a replica of A7mk2 scheme. Heck, I am a bit astounded how this came to pass. Proper design should be validated with large enough user base with all kinds of traits related to actual use cases before going into production. My guess is that this validation was done with in-house software engineers. Maybe the "still" camera unit should consult video camera folks in-house a bit? Having operated Sony PMW-200 shouldercam few times the ergonomics were really well thought out.

Edited on May 16, 2017 at 06:15 PM · View previous versions



May 16, 2017 at 06:01 PM
chez
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p.58 #6 · p.58 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
I do not expect for many to understand, I design user interfaces and A9 is a horror story as it is - a replica of A7mk2 scheme.


Horror story maybe for you, but after using a Sony mirror less interface for a couple years, I find it very appealing and easy to use. Now when I pick up my 7D, I am lost...

Personally, one of the attractions for me with mirror less is the smaller bodies and lenses. Really don't know if I would be using a mirror less if it wasn't for the size / weight savings.

With large DSLR's and small mirror less systems, there is a camera for everyone.




May 16, 2017 at 06:11 PM
MJKoski
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p.58 #7 · p.58 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A9


How about mirrorless for everyone? MILC brings you possibility to use adapters and, well, some advanced feats like flicker free AF-C. Or Eye-AF. Not just diminished size. How about throwing in some really advanced modules in the space reserved for mirror box? Like light amplifier until sensor tech gets there (obviously, for night vision mode for composing in darkness). Or proper camera movements via sensor shifting/tilting/rotation. This really works and is proven by K-1.

CaNikon already do this - different sizes for different camera lines. 1-series for no expenses saved, prosumer models like D810 and 5D4 for advanced tech but lower cost and size. Then there are those Walmart market models (meh).



May 16, 2017 at 06:27 PM
chez
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p.58 #8 · p.58 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
How about mirrorless for everyone? MILC brings you possibility to use adapters and, well, some advanced feats like flicker free AF-C. Or Eye-AF. Not just diminished size. How about throwing in some really advanced modules in the space reserved for mirror box? Like light amplifier until sensor tech gets there (obviously, for night vision mode for composing in darkness). Or proper camera movements via sensor shifting/tilting/rotation. This really works and is proven by K-1.

CaNikon already do this - different sizes for different camera lines. 1-series for no expenses saved, prosumer models like D810 and 5D4 for advanced tech but lower
...Show more

Then I suggest you wait on CaNikon to get serious with mirrorless and use what you got now...but please stop your whining about Sony doing you so wrong because they did not deliver your dream camera.



May 16, 2017 at 06:43 PM
Wanny
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p.58 #9 · p.58 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Did anyone see Jason Lanier's video with the A9 and MC-11? Super Impressive

I now just realized he was shooting at ISO 100 so disregard my comment lol



May 16, 2017 at 08:37 PM
GMPhotography
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p.58 #10 · p.58 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I can't watch any of his videos. But I guess the upshot is it works well. That's great I have 2 Sigma lenses.


May 16, 2017 at 08:46 PM
GMPhotography
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p.58 #11 · p.58 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I can't watch any of his videos. But I guess the upshot is it works well. That's great I have 2 Sigma lenses.


May 16, 2017 at 08:46 PM
kshimz
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p.58 #12 · p.58 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A9


chez wrote:
Then I suggest you wait on CaNikon to get serious with mirrorless and use what you got now...but please stop your whining about Sony doing you so wrong because they did not deliver your dream camera.


^ Yes, please! @ MJKoski Instead of trolling these threads, why don't you use your time to design your "dream camera" and submit it to a manufacturer that hasn't upset you with its shortcomings. We get it, the ergonomics don't suit you, the upgrades don't suit your shooting style, you have no interest in buying it. I, however, am excited about this camera, which I ordered. Bash on me all you want, but as a wedding photographer, this camera is as close to perfect for MY needs. I came from Canon and Nikon, but Sony IMHO has stepped up their game enough to allow me to finally switch over with confidence. Though I enjoy listening to other members' experience, feelings, etc about the A9, reading your posts is really aggravating me, so I'm done with this thread.



May 17, 2017 at 02:15 AM
nampramos
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p.58 #13 · p.58 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Wanny wrote:
Did anyone see Jason Lanier's video with the A9 and MC-11? Super Impressive

I now just realized he was shooting at ISO 100 so disregard my comment lol


hahaha

Low light situation definitely!



May 17, 2017 at 03:37 AM
Matt Grum
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p.58 #14 · p.58 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
How about mirrorless for everyone? MILC brings you possibility to use adapters and, well, some advanced feats like flicker free AF-C. Or Eye-AF. Not just diminished size. How about throwing in some really advanced modules in the space reserved for mirror box? Like light amplifier until sensor tech gets there


There's no such thing. Nor is it even possible - even if you could take every photon and duplicate it, doubling the amount of light, you would still have the same amount of noise. Noise primarily occurs due to the discrete nature of light and the random way in which photons are emitted by a light source. Nigh vision goggles are basically just IR sensors with very high ISO settings.


MJKoski wrote:
Or proper camera movements via sensor shifting/tilting/rotation. This really works and is proven by K-1.


The Pentax 1 doesn't offer a tilt function. It can only move the sensor up/down left/right and rotate it about the optical axis. Lots of people got confused because it does offer a limited shift functionality, which in people's minds became tilt/shift and then tilt.

A tilting sensor is perfectly possible, of course, but that could be done within the existing mirrorless form factor. I really can't think of single "advanced module" that you would want to occupy the space where the mirror would have gone.

You could make a mirrorless camera with a longer flange distance (essentially a tube on the front) in order to make telephoto lenses a bit shorter, but that seems a little pointless, as these lenses would be large anyway. Incidentally this has been done by Sigma and Pentax - it didn't prove popular in either case.



May 17, 2017 at 04:49 AM
MJKoski
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p.58 #15 · p.58 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Sorry, I do not get it. It is only allowed to write about sunshine and joyjoy in a thread about a device? I am not writing about my preferences, I am writing about how Sony is perceived as a camera system in our local market considering serious nature photography. Conditions here are often not funny, you carry lots of other gear to get there and back, weight of a camera body is the last of the issues.

Logical reasoning based on this board is that A9 form factor and specs makes it a superb choice for petite wedding photographers. So be it then. That is however weird considering how many other opportunities are missed considering the market needs for pro bodies.



May 17, 2017 at 05:15 AM
nampramos
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p.58 #16 · p.58 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
Sorry, I do not get it. It is only allowed to write about sunshine and joyjoy in a thread about a device? I am not writing about my preferences, I am writing about how Sony is perceived as a camera system in our local market considering serious nature photography. Conditions here are often not funny, you carry lots of other gear to get there and back, weight of a camera body is the last of the issues.

Logical reasoning based on this board is that A9 form factor and specs makes it a superb choice for petite wedding photographers. So be
...Show more

Just think that the space saved with an A9 vs. a top of the line dSLR will let you carry a bottle of Finlandia on your outings in the nature. That's reason enough to get one, don't you think?



May 17, 2017 at 05:22 AM
bjornthun
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p.58 #17 · p.58 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A9


nampramos wrote:
Just think that the space saved with an A9 vs. a top of the line dSLR will let you carry a bottle of Finlandia on your outings in the nature. That's reason enough to get one, don't you think?





May 17, 2017 at 06:03 AM
MJKoski
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p.58 #18 · p.58 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I do not consume alcohol. Rather, few rolls of toilet paper are always usable. If nothing else, for setting up a campfire.

Here is 6 years old picture of my short distance (max 10-15km) kit back then:
https://mjkoski.1g.fi/kuvat/Miscellaneous/trash/DSC_0050x.jpg/_full.jpg

Translation of items:

3. Raincover + remote control
4. Microfiber cloth for polishing sunglasses
5. Toilet paper
6. Generic rocket blower
7. 2x circular polarizer filters, one for bad weather, one pristine model
8. Headlamp, lots of bubblegum, PEC-pads for cleaning polarizer filter
9. Mosquito headnet, various hex wrenches, compass and spare mobile phone (really a must)
10. Paper maps for different locations
11. Proper knife for self-defense

Body and lens has changed and type of bag has changed to proper hiking bag pack. I often laugh when I see ideal packing photos which contain only gear p*rn. That is not the reality And, few hundred grams saved by modern MILC means nothing.



May 17, 2017 at 06:26 AM
ggreene
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p.58 #19 · p.58 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Sony really didn't need to make the A9 much larger to have solved a lot of the ergonomic arguments. From looking at the photos with the vertical grip they gave it plenty of room between the grip and the lens when you grip it in the vertical position. It's just the width of the body that is cramped for fingers/gloves and forces the buttons to be too close to each other. All they had to do was make it a little wider which I doubt would have increased the weight all that much and would still be far, far smaller/lighter then the 1DX2/D5.


May 17, 2017 at 06:44 AM
MJKoski
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p.58 #20 · p.58 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Yes I agree with that. That is what I meant for impossible button placement in current layout which the add-on grip would not solve now.


May 17, 2017 at 06:48 AM
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