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Archive 2017 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue

  
 
Robert Dull
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p.32 #1 · p.32 #1 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Anyone tell me on here what D72 and D153 does as I can't see it doing anything better / different to D9 / D25?
(unless you point to the sky)

On the the old dynamic the higher number of points made a difference and could be of some help, whats the point of D72 / D153 on the new system? if they worked as in the past happy days I could understand but now I wonder why they are on the camera.

both photos I posted Howard were 72 pointHave yet to use 153 point as I don't need it for these situations but am going to give it a go soon. Hopefully you noticed that the camera wasn't pointed at the sky first,I also hope you noticed(not that it's terribly important) to quell the thought of the camera not having a valid target in the background,which it DID in the bottom photo, it did NOT shift focus to that target,so your "at the sky" offering is thrown out the window and the outer points work.



Jul 04, 2017 at 04:49 PM
T-O Shooter
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p.32 #2 · p.32 #2 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Robert Dull wrote:
Anyone tell me on here what D72 and D153 does as I can't see it doing anything better / different to D9 / D25?
(unless you point to the sky)

On the the old dynamic the higher number of points made a difference and could be of some help, whats the point of D72 / D153 on the new system? if they worked as in the past happy days I could understand but now I wonder why they are on the camera.

both photos I posted Howard were 72 pointHave yet to use 153 point as I don't need it
...Show more

I'll give you a "nice dog" That's about it. Not sure that what's under your outer focus point is enough to throw off focus. And I know you're all yay, yay about the new camera, and it's a nice camera, but...........

You came from a D7000. That's going to yay, yay ya anyway. If Dynamic worked properly you'd be YAY, YAY about the AF. See the difference?

Again, nice dog.



Jul 04, 2017 at 06:48 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #3 · p.32 #3 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Robert Dull wrote:
Anyone tell me on here what D72 and D153 does as I can't see it doing anything better / different to D9 / D25?
(unless you point to the sky)

On the the old dynamic the higher number of points made a difference and could be of some help, whats the point of D72 / D153 on the new system? if they worked as in the past happy days I could understand but now I wonder why they are on the camera.

both photos I posted Howard were 72 pointHave yet to use 153 point as I don't need it
...Show more

Looking at your two dog photos....first there is no way to tell if the centre point was still active and predictive AF was still keeping the dog in focus OR the assist points were active. You were surely not into the 72 point range of points and only into the 25 point box either way. You can check in the EXIF to see which focus point was active.

The thing is I can post 1000s of tack sharp focus shots shot with the focus point no where near the subject using single point. The way AF works, you can just as easily have an OOF shot show the active AF point right over the subjects eye as you can have a tack sharp shot with the focus point out on the sky totally outside the group of points. Checking the EXIF to see what point the camera was using in the dog shots would make more of an argument but even then it means nothing.

What is important is that it is working for your shooting. Dynamic works for my BIF shooting also. However so does single point and that is the point I keep trying to make....I'm not seeing a benefit from using the wider Dynamic modes vs single point so I wish they gave me a different behaviour that would make them a more different option over single point.



Jul 04, 2017 at 07:14 PM
Robert Dull
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p.32 #4 · p.32 #4 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Looking at your two dog photos....first there is no way to tell if the centre point was still active and predictive AF was still keeping the dog in focus OR the assist points were active. You were surely not into the 72 point range of points and only into the 25 point box either way. You can check in the EXIF to see which focus point was active.

yes these are valid points,have a suggest on what exif viewer that would give me
that

The thing is I can post 1000s of tack sharp focus shots shot with the focus point no where near the subject using single point. The way AF works, you can just as easily have an OOF shot show the active AF point right over the subjects eye as you can have a tack sharp shot with the focus point out on the sky totally outside the group of points. Checking the EXIF to see what point the camera was using in the dog shots would make more of an argument but even then it means nothing.

Yep again have seen this also. Yes checking the exif could mean nothing on both sides of the argument I would think,but a compelling one. I will certainly be happy to try single,etc in the same scenario and see what happens.

What is important is that it is working for your shooting. Dynamic works for my BIF shooting also. However so does single point and that is the point I keep trying to make....I'm not seeing a benefit from using the wider Dynamic modes vs single point so I wish they gave me a different behaviour that would make them a more different option over single point.

And that's what is most important isn't it? Thanks for making an argument without the put downs,name calling,assumptions,etc quite refreshing and will always look at others opinions/thoughts when that crap isn't involved,it's offensive and childish and nothing is gained by it. Let me know what exif tool ok and will get back to you.



Jul 04, 2017 at 08:04 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #5 · p.32 #5 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Robert Dull wrote:
Looking at your two dog photos....first there is no way to tell if the centre point was still active and predictive AF was still keeping the dog in focus OR the assist points were active. You were surely not into the 72 point range of points and only into the 25 point box either way. You can check in the EXIF to see which focus point was active.

yes these are valid points,have a suggest on what exif viewer that would give me
that

The thing is I can post 1000s of tack sharp focus shots shot with the focus point
...Show more

I will try to find the reference to how Steve and Snapsy were able to see what point was being used. It is talked about much earlier in this thread. Unfortunately Nikon stopped it from showing the point used in Dynamic like it used to on the older system.

EDIT: Found it....it is a bit complicated and I haven't tried it myself but here is snapsy's post:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1478115/7#13962154



Jul 04, 2017 at 08:47 PM
Robert Dull
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p.32 #6 · p.32 #6 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


ok got it on my computer,the top shot was E9 which is center and the bottom shot was G9,so an outer,be nice to have a map of the points. My eyes though,lol,reading all the lines to find it. This app really gives you the complete
info



Jul 04, 2017 at 10:41 PM
smkunder
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p.32 #7 · p.32 #7 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Well I think this one (thread) has gone on a bit long at least for me.


Jul 05, 2017 at 06:27 AM
sritri
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p.32 #8 · p.32 #8 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


When Dynamic AF wants to suck it does so with aplomb









Oct 05, 2017 at 02:29 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #9 · p.32 #9 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


sritri wrote:
When Dynamic AF wants to suck it does so with aplomb



Group would have nailed that one as there weren't any foreground ripples in the water.



Oct 05, 2017 at 08:57 PM
runamuck
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p.32 #10 · p.32 #10 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Still nothing from Nikon about firmware. Figures.


Oct 05, 2017 at 10:38 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #11 · p.32 #11 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


runamuck wrote:
Still nothing from Nikon about firmware. Figures.


Now that we have seen the D850 is the same we can be sure (or at least I'm sure) there will be no "fix" for this. It is as Nikon intended for whatever reason.

Where you will see a change is on the Nikon D6.....



Oct 05, 2017 at 10:57 PM
Steve Perry
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p.32 #12 · p.32 #12 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Yup, the D850's dynamic AF works exactly like the D5/D500. So, I guess it's the way Nikons wants it.


Oct 06, 2017 at 08:47 AM
RKnecht
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p.32 #13 · p.32 #13 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


FWIW, I shot the D5 for the last 6 days. Over 13000 shots. I used D9 exclusively and I think I had about a 90% keeper rate. I'm not gonna complain about that.

I'll be honest, in the beginning when I switched from a D4 to the D5, I was a little confused about the AF. But now that I understand what's going on, I am fine with it.



Oct 06, 2017 at 12:10 PM
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p.32 #14 · p.32 #14 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
Yup, the D850's dynamic AF works exactly like the D5/D500. So, I guess it's the way Nikons wants it.




i think it's the way it is because Nikon doesn't know how to fix it. Someone ( maybe you? ) discovered the quirk that bumping up the blocked shot setting to 4 or 5 gives a delay to the dynamic AF. But that setting in a3 is there for when something comes between the camera and subject. If it was a delay for dynamic AF it would be labelled as such.

A couple of weeks ago I was shooting along a pond with 25pt and a3 block shot delay set to 5. ( for dynamic delay, not block shot delay ) I was focusing on a bird a reasonable distance away, more watching than anything. Another bird popped up much closer, but just off the same line of sight. I switched to the nearer bird, but block shot took it to be a well "blocked shot" and wouldn't re-focus. By the time I double pumped the AF-ON button it was too late.

So I can't be sold on the idea that the current dynamic AF is by design. If it were a3 or some other setting would have a menu item for dynamic AF delay. Without the quirk of being able to use block shot delay to give a delay for dynamic AF, there would not be a working dynamic AF. It would either not switch to any of the other points or "no time" switch back to the primary focus point, which in reality probably means it never switched.



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:23 PM
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p.32 #15 · p.32 #15 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RKnecht wrote:
FWIW, I shot the D5 for the last 6 days. Over 13000 shots. I used D9 exclusively and I think I had about a 90% keeper rate. I'm not gonna complain about that.

I'll be honest, in the beginning when I switched from a D4 to the D5, I was a little confused about the AF. But now that I understand what's going on, I am fine with it.

9 pt on D5 is much smaller than on the D4 ( and others ) I've heard that it's little more than single point. So your keeper rate might have to do more with your skill and technique, as I assume that within that small D9 there's little room for error in drifting off one of the 9 points.



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:27 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #16 · p.32 #16 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


T-O Shooter wrote:
9 pt on D5 is much smaller than on the D4 ( and others ) I've heard that it's little more than single point. So your keeper rate might have to do more with your skill and technique, as I assume that within that small D9 there's little room for error in drifting off one of the 9 points.


I agree....I'd guess that you (RKnecht) would have had 90% keepers with Single Point also.



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:50 PM
RussHons
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p.32 #17 · p.32 #17 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


So this was shot with a D5 in D9, burst rate of 12 fps, so less than a second for these. A3 was set at 3. the 2 frames at the peak of the jump, the focus box slipped off him, and I immediately lost focus, once back on his leg I got him back in focus. Are you saying Group would have been better here? towards the end, wouldn't group have jumped focus over to the closer #88. What focus setting would have worked best here?







Oct 09, 2017 at 09:45 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #18 · p.32 #18 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RussHons wrote:
So this was shot with a D5 in D9, burst rate of 12 fps, so less than a second for these. A3 was set at 3. the 2 frames at the peak of the jump, the focus box slipped off him, and I immediately lost focus, once back on his leg I got him back in focus. Are you saying Group would have been better here? towards the end, wouldn't group have jumped focus over to the closer #88. What focus setting would have worked best here?


IMO, nothing would have done any better. A shot like that requires either single point or D9 and trying to keep the point where you want it. Too many other distracting elements in the frame. Auto AF and 3D would be all over the place. Group may have nailed the peak jump better because it is actively using all those points as one single point (sort of) but would have grabbed 88 for sure in the last 2-3 shots.



Oct 09, 2017 at 11:32 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.32 #19 · p.32 #19 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Why no d9 mode for the D500 or D850?


Oct 10, 2017 at 01:01 AM
la puffin
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p.32 #20 · p.32 #20 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RussHons wrote:
So this was shot with a D5 in D9, burst rate of 12 fps, so less than a second for these. A3 was set at 3. the 2 frames at the peak of the jump, the focus box slipped off him, and I immediately lost focus, once back on his leg I got him back in focus.


I'd be on D9 for this, but be focused on his shirt numbers or the helmet (the best choice but smaller than the numbers.). I may have missed the second shot because the number is obscured and the AF could've caught the yellow helmet, or something else because there's a lot of contrast areas very close by. However, if it' something else is in the same distance (like the green guy's head), it'll go for that before shifting focus. Aim small, miss small.

With D9, if you're focused on a low contrast/detail object like the white leg, if the primary losses AF,any one those surrounding eight points are going to grab whatever they can. If you're not close to focusing on your target, you could get the BG or anything else. Aim small, miss small.



Oct 10, 2017 at 01:03 AM
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