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Archive 2017 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban

  
 
jleom
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


I quickly scanned the topics and didn't see this so I thought I'd share.

http://intothenightphoto.blogspot.com/



Jan 19, 2017 at 04:03 PM
goto_dengo
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


Sounds good to me. I have very little sympathy for people overusing, misusing, or monopolizing public resources, which belong to all of us, to make a living. Find something else to do, or do it in less popular, less iconic locations.

i'd take it even further. Why should a commercial photo "tour" be allowed to completely monopolize all the good spots some morning at, say, mesa arch? Imagine you came from half a world away, had limited time, and repeatedly ran into that. It just doesn't seem right.

260 CUAs in Arches! Incredible. Ed Abbey is rolling over in his grave (even faster than usual.)



Jan 19, 2017 at 05:46 PM
jforkner
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


It’s folks like the linked blog’s author that cause bans like those referenced. Regardless of how dim his lighting is, he’s apparently arrogant enough to think that everyone wants to view the scene according to his wishes, to wit: “The dim light was left on for about an hour, while over 30 visitors from several nations were able to take similar photos, even though they were not part of my workshop group.”


Jack



Jan 19, 2017 at 10:55 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


Yeah, I agree it sounds like the workshop leader here is exactly why the NP instituted the ban, it's too bad that he can't see that. But there is sadly an arrogance in many of these workshop leaders where they totally ignore the impact that their group has and how it can impede and interfere with individuals that are out shooting at a location.

Jim



Jan 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Greg Campbell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


jforkner wrote:
It’s folks like the linked blog’s author that cause bans like those referenced. Regardless of how dim his lighting is, he’s apparently arrogant enough to think that everyone wants to view the scene according to his wishes, to wit: “The dim light was left on for about an hour, while over 30 visitors from several nations were able to take similar photos, even though they were not part of my workshop group.”

Jack


He's got a FB page if you want to leave 'feedback.'



Jan 20, 2017 at 11:58 AM
Adam Schallau
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


goto_dengo wrote:
Sounds good to me. I have very little sympathy for people overusing, misusing, or monopolizing public resources, which belong to all of us, to make a living. Find something else to do, or do it in less popular, less iconic locations.

i'd take it even further. Why should a commercial photo "tour" be allowed to completely monopolize all the good spots some morning at, say, mesa arch? Imagine you came from half a world away, had limited time, and repeatedly ran into that. It just doesn't seem right.

260 CUAs in Arches! Incredible. Ed Abbey is rolling over in his grave (even
...Show more

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I'll note that I hold a CUA to conduct photography workshops and photo tours at Grand Canyon National Park. I work very closely with the National Park Service (NPS) team in the concessions management office at Grand Canyon NP to further develop the Photography Workshops CUA with the goal of having as little impact as possible on other park visitor's experience. I began to do this after seeing the impact some of the larger workshop groups (16 students, 2 instructors, plus a driver) have on the park. For the record, my groups are limited to 6 participants, and I often cut off registrations at 4. This has lead to many new rules that I believe in, including limitations on group size and the maximum number of tripods that may be setup at one location.

As a condition of maintaining a CUA, the park service requires CUA holders to cover NPS regulations and visitation considerations with all of our workshop participants. This includes 'Leave No Trace' principals, wildlife observation considerations, a multitude of topics covering respect for other visitor's park experience, and the park's list of approved equipment and activities (e.g. max number of tripods, what locations we can work from, and the use of lights, models and props). Lastly, it is made very clear that we do not own the spots. I know there are some workshop instructors that definitely believe that their needs and those of their clients come first. This isn't how we operate and I'm always reminding my students that we will share the spot. My point here is that workshop participants are getting constant reminders of what is allowed, and how to conduct themselves.

I have seen my share of individual photographers behaving badly. Unfortunately we are seeing more people, not just photographers, who do not consider how their actions will impact other visitor's experience. This does seem to be especially prevalent when it comes to night photography with lights being pointed all over with little consideration for what it's doing to other people's experience. I see it all the time in the parks. It's easy for the NPS to apply rules, regulations, and restrictions on CUA holders. It's much more difficult to do the same with the individual visitor.

I do agree that there are to many CUAs being issued (the 260 in Arches is not just workshop CUA, but also covers bus tours, backpacking guides, and other commercial activities) in Arches, and I'm sure in other parks as well. It's easy to blame workshop and tour groups for monopolizing a site such as Mesa Arch. The reality is that all of the people in the group have just as much right to be there as those traveling as individuals not in an organized group, and they most likely would have visited the site on their own at some point . Many of these locations are frequently overrun with photographers who are traveling on their own, and yet they all end up at the same place the same morning. Unfortunately our parks are being loved to death, there are many people visiting our parks, and many of them have a camera and tripod.

At the end of the day, this is about protecting our parks. Workshop leaders can take the lead by setting a positive example to follow. We all need to work together while being good stewards and having as little impact as possible.




Edited on Jan 20, 2017 at 10:07 PM · View previous versions



Jan 20, 2017 at 01:33 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


I'm not a light painting fan. . . especially when I'm patiently waiting my turn to capture a scene in its natural beauty. There is too much a lack of consideration of others on so many levels in our National Parks. I believe the ban is a step in the right direction.
Dave



Jan 20, 2017 at 02:22 PM
jforkner
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


Greg Campbell wrote:
He's got a FB page if you want to leave 'feedback.'


I did & left one on his blog page, too.

Edited on Jan 20, 2017 at 05:11 PM · View previous versions



Jan 20, 2017 at 03:59 PM
ckcarr
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


It's hugely selfish and a lemming mentality of the participants.

Reminds me of Corona Arch, one of my personal sore spots.
Not that many years ago Corona Arch was basically the "Locals" hike. Dry, dusty and off the beaten path of both Arches and Canyonlands, where the locals could go as an escape.

One day this guy from Salt Lake decides to bring his buddies up to Corona Arch to make a YouTube video of them all being daredevils. Having a few cute girls and smiles didn't hurt. So, the video went viral. And suddenly and almost instantly the white vans were everywhere. Newly created companies up in Salt Lake, or Denver, Grand Junction, etc. bringing people here who had never even heard of Corona Arch before. The parking lot was now packed. The peace and tranquility people used to aspire to on a Corona Arch hike was shattered. Constant activity everywhere. Completely different people too from who used to hike there. Yes, the BLM gradually got control of it, and has banned the swinging for now, but it's never been the same. So I never go there anymore.

And that's the crux of the issue in my opinion. These things aren't changing slowly, gradually.. as they should. Instead they change with the speed of the internet, and a couple digital photos. It can happen almost overnight. Where 5-6 years ago Arches would be almost deserted at night, it's now running 24-7. Some person's picture gets posted, and worldwide it's like chumming for fish. And they all have to get their own personal picture, which is the same as every other one. So there's no choice, and reaction has to happen quickly. You can't wait ten years or all is lost...

It's like some people I've observed on this board. So busy trying to get to every photo opportunity location they see a picture of.. the latest greatest thing, that it makes me wonder if they even see what the images they end up with are before they head to the next location.



Jan 20, 2017 at 05:04 PM
OregonSun
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


I'm a big fan of 'Trophy' landscape photographers, they make it easy for me to know what locations to avoid

It definitely is a bummer to see a beautiful 'local' spot ruined by new crowds, but I expect it to happen regardless. Plenty of other spots to go to, if you don't want them ruined, don't tell anyone or post any pictures on the internet

Heron



Jan 20, 2017 at 08:44 PM
gordon l
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


My 2¢
I am not a light-painting fan. I don't think it is right for a hoard of workshop attendees to artificially light up an arch in a popular area. I've watched one tour in Capitol Reef when my path crossed theirs. The instructor put a stick on the ground beside a waterfall and had 30 people line up to take that same picture one after another after another. While the line moved along, people chatted and whatever. It was a social event with a "canned shot" included.

I didnt' see creative thinking, just a loud crowd.

@ Craig: secret places need to exist. It's when a secret place exists AND it's near an easy-road access that disaster strikes. If a road is near, there is no guarantee it won't get overcrowded when the viral photo happens. Very sad about this.



Jan 22, 2017 at 08:06 AM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


i think what should happen is before you can buy a camera, you should have to take an outdoor ethics class! I see too many "photographers" out that would benefit greatly from this. Most have no clue.

i am stoked they are banning this.



Jan 22, 2017 at 09:20 PM
marcy45
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


I was at the Grand Canyon Watch tower this past fall with the hopes of getting the MW over the tower - it was something I had planned - I did not plan on the 30 Oriental tourist set up all over the lower pad area - they were extremely loud and shining flash lights all over the tower - you could not get an exposure without somebody turning on a flash light - I finally found one that spoke english and explained what I was trying to do - they did eventually co-operate but not a fun experience - I came back the next night nobody there and got what I was hoping for - it was interesting as they were obviously photographers they had all the equipment and set up but did not seem to co-oridinate any timing or shooting - and they were just yelling out instructions and talking so loud it put off other people trying to enjoy the location - I really hope they don't ban personal night shooting - it is so much fun


Jan 23, 2017 at 04:25 PM
JohnC
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban




marcy45 wrote:
I was at the Grand Canyon Watch tower this past fall with the hopes of getting the MW over the tower - it was something I had planned - I did not plan on the 30 Oriental tourist set up all over the lower pad area - they were extremely loud and shining flash lights all over the tower - you could not get an exposure without somebody turning on a flash light - I finally found one that spoke english and explained what I was trying to do - they did eventually co-operate but not a fun experience -
...Show more

What does "oriental" have to do with obnoxious tourists? I was at Delicate Arch last week and the shouting and running around the arch during moments of golden light wasn't attributable to any one race of visitors.



Jan 23, 2017 at 06:46 PM
marcy45
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


John - it was just you could not communicate with them - to try and tone it down - In the past 2 years I have been in many of the Western National parks and have found that they are extremely rude and have no sense of what is decent behavior - it was so bad in Yellowstone that they were handed out " how to behave in National parks brochures" in Chinese - I have had people come up and try to grab my 500mm lens and camera so they can see the "bear" when I was taking pictures of birds - they don't ask just they push and shove in - I have had some European tourist do the same type of behavior too - most of the time I try to be polite and help but it has been very disturbing - I have even had locals physically threaten us when we tried to inform them of hiking restrictions at bear activity sites -


Jan 23, 2017 at 07:57 PM
EGrav
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


The dreaded bus load of Chinese tourists makes me pack up and leave ASAP. They are rude, LOUD, and totally immersed in themselves. Forget any photography.... if they are present. Koreans and Japanese are just as loud and obnoxious, but they usually smile. I have seen this over and over and over at Yellowstone, and also in Canada (trying to shoot the Aurora.) Out West (AZ, UT, etc.) the same problem. Rarely, any problems around other groups.
The only other group that I have found as obnoxious, are the " we have to wipe out the wolves/bears/mountain lion/ (insert species name) " group - those that believe trophy hunting is a sport.



Jan 23, 2017 at 08:32 PM
d4mike
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


Un-related but funny story about Chinese.

I visited lower Antelope Canyon in November, our young Navajo guide, I'll call him Tom, took myself and one other on the photographer tour. His name was Robby and he was from India.
Tom was quite the ladies man and was hitting on the Japanese girls.

On the way out Tom mentioned that the Japanese were the most polite of Asians that visit Page.
Robby asked which Asians were the most rude, Tom replied Chinese. Robby said, "I'm married to a Chinese woman."
Tom stopped, looked up at the sky with raised arms and said "Why of course you are, why wouldn't the guy from India be married to a Chinese woman, let me take my moccasin out of my mouth."

Robby said, "No worries, her parents are rude, her grandparents are rude, her entire country is rude."
Tom laughed.



Jan 23, 2017 at 08:38 PM
JohnC
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Arches NP Light Painting Ban


No offense taken
Ever wonder how the term ugly American came about?
In the 60's it was the Americans.
In the early 80's the Japanese.
Now the Chinese and south Asian Indians.
And everyone has a image recording device and everyone wants their own shot for social media.



Jan 23, 2017 at 09:01 PM





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