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Archive 2017 · Leica 'M10"

  
 
uhoh7
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · Leica 'M10"


Gary Clennan wrote:
And don't tell me any more about your M6. I have resisted buying one for the past five years....


Mine is perfect except it has the bubbles.
I should do the whole Tri-X thing, you can push to 1600 and it's very nice, but I hate the scanning part.

I need some servants to handle all these pesky details



Jan 20, 2017 at 07:21 PM
Alex Phan
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · Leica 'M10"


Kai posted his Leica M10 here




Jan 20, 2017 at 08:17 PM
uhoh7
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · Leica 'M10"


Kai and Puts, My favorities


Jan 20, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Desmolicious
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · Leica 'M10"


"Leica kiss-assery!"
"Leitz park - it's not really a park, there's no swings!"

Kai rules!



Jan 20, 2017 at 10:15 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · Leica 'M10"


Every Leica thread ends the same way, and this one is no exception. You know I would like so much to buy a Leica, but the M is too heavy, too large, EVF is outdated, EVF does not scroll in magnified mode, it's not 56 megapixels, it has no IBIS, it has a rangefinder (I hate rangefinders), it's German (I don't like Germans), it does not have zoom lenses, it does not have the illy button (to make Italian espresso) (I hate German espresso). If Leica comes up with a camera that meets my preferences, I will almost certainly, around 3% chance, buy one.


Jan 20, 2017 at 10:26 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · Leica 'M10"





Jan 20, 2017 at 11:44 PM
snappu
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · Leica 'M10"


sebboh wrote:
agreed, but:
Sony A7rII - 625g
FE 55/1.8 - 281g, total 906g
FE 28/2 - 200g, total 825g
35 summilux - 320g + adapter - 54g, total 999g
50 summilux - 335g, + adapter 54g, total 1014g

this is lighter, smaller in most dimensions, and cheaper. to use m-glass on the a7rII you need an extra $500 for the sensor mod and the total will weigh a whole 19g more or 60g less if you go with the a7II.

i understand wanting to use an m camera more, but the smaller lighter argument doesn't hold that much water.


Those two lenses are not F1.4 lenses. Sony F1.4 lenses are ridiculously big and heavy. That's why I left that system.

As for adapting Leica lenses? Been there done that. After 2 years of messing around I'm never going back that route. I hated it and wish I could have my time back. Leica lenses should be used on Leica bodies. Same goes for Sony and their native lenses.

Sony's are much larger in practice with their protruding eyepiece and SLR-like shape. Look at the photos posted in the previous page. Sony's will not fit in the same bag as a Leica M. Leica's are shaped liked small books. With no lens mounted I could slide in a second body anywhere in my bag.

So yes, a Leica M system is much smaller and lighter.



Jan 20, 2017 at 11:56 PM
sebboh
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · Leica 'M10"


snappu wrote:
Those two lenses are not F1.4 lenses. Sony F1.4 lenses are ridiculously big and heavy. That's why I left that system.


on this we agree, i would never use those sony f/1.4 lenses.

snappu wrote:
As for adapting Leica lenses? Been there done that. After 2 years of messing around I'm never going back that route. I hated it and wish I could have my time back. Leica lenses should be used on Leica bodies. Same goes for Sony and their native lenses.


on this we disagree, i love leica lenses on my a7, hate sony lenses on my a7, and hate using a rangefinder.

snappu wrote:
Sony's are much larger in practice with their protruding eyepiece and SLR-like shape. Look at the photos posted in the previous page. Sony's will not fit in the same bag as a Leica M. Leica's are shaped liked small books. With no lens mounted I could slide in a second body anywhere in my bag.

So yes, a Leica M system is much smaller and lighter.


i'm not a fan of the slr style myself and wish somebody would release a rangefinder styled evf FF camera, but i find the a7 with a small lens fits in my coat pocket better than the m9 with a small lens. when i carry a bag both fit the same (i don't do small bags if i want compact i go bag free).

uhoh7 wrote:
The measurements are BS. They include the wheel. I've been all through it, taking your side. I was wrong. Body size is identical. It's quite a bit heavier, that's what you feel. M262 is about like M9. Both are 600g with battery M10 660, M240 680.


i'm not going on measurements, i'm going on pictures and my feeling holding the cameras one after the other. the frame of the m240 is a bit bigger, you can see it here:
http://cameradecision.com/topviewsizecomparison/Leica-M9-vs-Leica-M-Typ-240-top-view-size-comparison.jpg
the m10 looks great though, as i said before, it's what the m240 should have been.



Jan 21, 2017 at 12:57 AM
uhoh7
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · Leica 'M10"


sebboh wrote:
i'm not going on measurements, i'm going on pictures and my feeling holding the cameras one after the other. the frame of the m240 is a bit bigger, you can see it here:

You do not actually believe those cameras are side by side, do you?

If you can document the M240 body is actually bigger, aside from the thumb wheel, you will be the first.

Here in a real picture, without incorrect measurements the M9 looks bigger

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5177c8d1e4b084b94e4b5c0e/t/5183a805e4b0046126d1462c/1367582728975/KJD_0939.jpg

I thought it was bigger for a year. I used the stats to try to prove it. After considerable investigation and talking with people who had both, I'm now convinced they are the same size. I will bet you nice six-pack there in not more than 1mm diff excluding wheel for thumb. I don't think there is even that.

Who has them both lying around and a pair of calipers?

In fact if you look at that picture you can see the wheel and screen actually come out more. M9 body may be effectively thicker at the screen. The lens mount on the M9 looks to be higher off that table.

"Though all bodies have parts which stick out: the display, the plastic ring around the ocular and the leavers in front. With these parts i measure more than 43mm for the M8/M9" Which makes the M9 actually thicker than M240, as you can clearly see in the image (it's a 262, i think)
See this current thread

Pretty sure I got you here, Derek

Edited on Jan 21, 2017 at 01:59 AM · View previous versions



Jan 21, 2017 at 01:21 AM
RickOptic
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · Leica 'M10"


I managed to get into Seattle today and stop by Glazers Camera and l take the M10 out for about an hour and shoot around South Lake Union.

Just some impressions of a few things I was wondering about. I'll try and keep them balanced so, it may sound like there isn't a lot of difference in this new M10 compared to the M240 I have. To save you time, the end of this initial impression review is, I will upgrade. The M10 is just better in about every way, but the M10 isn't wow better if, you are just interested in specs. But, for me, there is more to a camera than specs.

Just a perspective about me, I've owned all of the M digital cameras from early 2008 with the M8 and have upgraded and traded in each iteration of the M digital line just as they came out. I hope to have the M10 on Monday and I'll trade in my M240. I never keep the previous version as I'd never use the previous camera and I know it would just sit. I have a bunch of Leica M and R glass and have tried a couple of other current FF cameras, both Sony and Canon. Like the Leica cameras, I've sold them for one reason or another and because, I really just need and want one camera... just me.

Ok, first off the new M feels really good in hand as I carried it out of the store without a strap. It definitely feels smaller and a bit lighter. Once I brought the camera to my eye and started shooting, it didn't really feel much different in size or handling from my M240. Switching back and forth, actually shooting, they are very close in size and handling. The M240 is still a nice solid little shooter.

Viewfinder. Very nice. I think it is a little easier to focus. I'm a 28 shooter and the 28 lines are much easier to see... like 35 in the M240 finder. I found shooting 28 a lot easier and less fatiguing. Shooting 35 even better. The 35 lines had a lot of image around the frame lines. I believe 35 shooters are going to be impressed by the viewfinder. But, again, the M240 is fine for 35... a little tough on 28 and still seems fine when I switched back to it.

The ISO dial was a little fidgety to change (you'll never bump it accidentally) and I would have been fine with going to the menu, like the M240. I did like being able to glance down at the top of the camera and see shutter speed and ISO. The ISO dial does look cool and I'll probably warm to using it because, the dial seems to fit into the overall design concept of this camera.

The screen is finally nice. The fidelity is much better than the M240. Finally, I could really enjoy looking through my pictures on the camera. But, not as good as some other cameras and not close to an iPhone.

Speaking of the iPhone, I had the Leica M App on my phone and easily connected it to the M10. The App worked fine and was pretty cool. I can foresee using it occasionally to control the camera and it will make it easy to use the camera for social media, sharing and storing. I did find it kind of odd that Leica put it on this camera and maybe even more odd that it actually worked so well. I liked it.

The buttons and the interface was excellent. Layout and simplicity was excellent. The implementation of the controls and menu just really get out of your way and resonate with the basic functionality of M cameras. The whole organic, simple gestalt of this camera has an integrated feel between shooting and control of the camera. This makes shooting very concentrated and focused. I won't miss the M240, and I thought it was simple.

When I got home tonight I looked through the images. My impressions of image quality always seem to evolve as I use a camera. So, I'll be brief. Reds are truer and less yellow. Skin tones are less magenta and seem to be truer. Colors out of camera in DNG in LR using the Leica imbedded profile was really good as was WB. As you'd expect, Leica color processing has evolved.

I shot all ISOs and my main impression was that the color fidelity was very good as ISO increased. And, no banding.

A lot of cameras do a good job smoothing out the noise but, don't seem to get the colors right. With the M10, it was the color at higher ISO that impressed me. The M10 does have noise at higher ISO but, it is way better than my M240. I'm sure it is not going to be best in class. But, the noise has a really nice smooth grainy feel I liked a lot.

As usual, Leica leaves the files pretty "bare foot." You are going to have to apply NR in PP as you want if, you desire that smooth plastic feel to your photos like other brands give you out-of-camera. I personally like the grainy feel as long as the color fidelity is great, and it is with the M10.

So, there you go. Any one factor is probably not enough to upgrade from the M240. But, in total, the M10 seems like a completely different camera. It is lean. The feature-fat has been trimmed... and some of that fat was certainly not the best part of the M240.

The M10 is organic. More focused, simpler and less. I believe a lot of film M shooters are going to resonate with M10. I believe this one is going to be iconic.



Jan 21, 2017 at 01:32 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · Leica 'M10"


Welcome to FM, Rick! Nice to see you here!
Excellent write up on the M10. It would be very interesting to see your shots with it in the Leica image thread!

And congratulations, of course!



Jan 21, 2017 at 02:16 AM
RickOptic
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · Leica 'M10"


edwardkaraa wrote:
Welcome to FM, Rick! Nice to see you here!
Excellent write up on the M10. It would be very interesting to see your shots with it in the Leica image thread!


Seriously? I wouldn't contaminate my browser history with the Leica Forum URL. Maybe when I'm much older and crankier.



Jan 21, 2017 at 02:33 AM
Desmolicious
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · Leica 'M10"



https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5177c8d1e4b084b94e4b5c0e/t/5183a805e4b0046126d1462c/1367582728975/KJD_0939.jpg

I see Leica went back to the weaker tripod mount on the M10. Bummer.




Jan 21, 2017 at 02:49 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · Leica 'M10"




Desmolicious wrote:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5177c8d1e4b084b94e4b5c0e/t/5183a805e4b0046126d1462c/1367582728975/KJD_0939.jpg

I see Leica went back to the weaker tripod mount on the M10. Bummer.



It's the M9



Jan 21, 2017 at 03:00 AM
sebboh
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · Leica 'M10"


uhoh7 wrote:
You do not actually believe those cameras are side by side, do you?

If you can document the M240 body is actually bigger, aside from the thumb wheel, you will be the first.

Here in a real picture, without incorrect measurements the M9 looks bigger

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5177c8d1e4b084b94e4b5c0e/t/5183a805e4b0046126d1462c/1367582728975/KJD_0939.jpg

I thought it was bigger for a year. I used the stats to try to prove it. After considerable investigation and talking with people who had both, I'm now convinced they are the same size. I will bet you nice six-pack there in not more than 1mm diff excluding wheel for thumb. I don't think there
...Show more

i always thought the thumb wheel made the m9 look bigger?!? it's the thickness of the frame that matters for gripping it though, and i'd bet the m240 is ~3mm thicker in that regard even if the m9 wheel sticks out a bunch. show me a picture of the two next to each other both flat on their base if you want to prove they're the same size.




Jan 21, 2017 at 03:06 AM
Desmolicious
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · Leica 'M10"


edwardkaraa wrote:
It's the M9






Jan 21, 2017 at 03:18 AM
snappu
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · Leica 'M10"


The M9 and 240 are identical in frame thickness. This has been beaten to death.


Jan 21, 2017 at 04:53 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · Leica 'M10"




snappu wrote:
The M9 and 240 are identical in frame thickness. This has been beaten to death.

To be more precise, the difference is 0.4 mm.



Jan 21, 2017 at 07:36 AM
retrofocus
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · Leica 'M10"


I got to say - the M10 is a really nice one from what I am reading. Just the pricing....oh well.


Jan 21, 2017 at 08:46 AM
davewolfs
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · Leica 'M10"


Any risk with ordering from Europe to US (warranty etc)?

Given the strength in USD you can save about $800.



Jan 21, 2017 at 08:50 AM
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