Archive 2016 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

carlitos
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

DavidBM wrote:
The real thing is the performance and the build. The 18 performs better than any other 18. You got value for your dollar. What more do you want? I want Zeiss to give me the best performance I can afford - and I don't care where they build it or where the ray traces are done (so long as the workers get treated fairly)

Apparently, the Batis 18 performs better than the previous Zeiss 18's, some of which were built in Germany. The difference being better computer processors and design algorithms; more automation and robotics in the manufacturing process (fewer human beings who tend to lose concentration); feedback loops that bring the process back into spec (tooling, machine wear) before too many samples go out of spec. The tighter the spec, the more products within spec, the more expensive it gets.

You could take the whole process and put it on the moon (one day), and say the lenses were built on the moon.

Cosina/Voigtlander & Zeiss provide a good business model. C-V builds some interesting lenses - the 35/1.2 Nokton, this new "C-V Nikon 58/1.4", et al. Not Zeiss branded, but worse? No, a different flavor.

Nov 12, 2016 at 02:01 PM

DavidBM
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

carlitos wrote:
Apparently, the Batis 18 performs better than the previous Zeiss 18's, some of which were built in Germany. The difference being better computer processors and design algorithms; more automation and robotics in the manufacturing process (fewer human beings who tend to lose concentration); feedback loops that bring the process back into spec (tooling, machine wear) before too many samples go out of spec. The tighter the spec, the more products within spec, the more expensive it gets.

You could take the whole process and put it on the moon (one day), and say the lenses were built on the moon.

Cosina/Voigtlander...Show more →

The difference between cv and Zeiss branded lenses seems to be that Zeiss either sells you a classic design whose flaws are known and liked, or more usually else specs a lens whose performance is immaculate either by moderate specs (Batis Lox) or huge size and cost (Otus). CV on the other hand will usually nowadays design lenses with interesting specs (tiny superwides or small fast lenses or super fast lenses like 35 1.2 - but with the inevitable trade off in performance in some areas. Both approaches are good ones for certain purposes. Zeiss also gives you a serious repair network, which cv doesn't really.

Nov 12, 2016 at 04:28 PM

tzhang4284
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

Seems like the biggest areas of differentiation between different lens manufacturers on the high end are:
1. Optical coatings - there seems to be a difference in all the coatings each manufacturer provides. This seems to be an area where proprietary trade secrets still exist.

2. Manufacturing capability - Seems like new equipment such as new aspherical molding machines for the GM lenses can still make a difference.

3. Quality control & Support - Biggest difference is quality control and to a lesser extent aftermarket support. I think first run products in new production lines with new supply chains (e.g. moving over some lens production to Thailand and releasing a new product on that line like the 24-70mm f4) are typically the reasons for bad QC. The later run models seems to have a lot less sample variation than the earlier models.

I think optical formulas provided limited advantages these days given the access to computing power, comparable software and most of the old patents have already expired. I look at the Zeiss Batis and Loxia lines as stamps of quality vs. real innovation compared to a Sony Zeiss or Sony manufactured lens. Sony tried to up its quality game with the GM but not sure if they succeeded.This is true in the smartphone world too as a simple analogy - Apple phones are generally considered higher quality today than more innovative than Android phones.

Nov 12, 2016 at 05:07 PM

uhoh7
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

At this point, thanks to the E-mount, Zeiss has their name on more different types of poorly built, overpriced lenses than anyone in history.

But like with politicians, true fans are often oblivious to actual performance.

Somebody could go into business selling tested Zeiss glass, certified to be free of manufacturing flaws.

That would be worth 15% to me

Tamaron making the lens doesn't mean anything per say. iPhone is made in China, extremely well.

Edited on Nov 12, 2016 at 07:46 PM · View previous versions

Nov 12, 2016 at 07:37 PM

realVivek
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

Thanks for saying that.

Though obvious to me, it needed to be said.

Nov 12, 2016 at 07:41 PM

freaklikeme
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

DavidBM wrote:
Please give us a 180 with close focus that's smaller than a 70-200!
I guess that means no 1:1 please as that would increase the size a lot over 1:2...

Either that or the 135 would make a lot of people here happy.

Nov 12, 2016 at 07:41 PM

justruss
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

I wouldn't care if it was made by Bill's Paint Shop in Mozambique-- except for worker treatment, etc.-- if it performed the way it does. The best 18mm (135 format) lens ever produced, at relatively low weight, with class-leading AF speed and accuracy... I care about that far more than what any label suggests.

My little blue badges are taped over with something black like all the others anyway.

Nov 13, 2016 at 07:27 AM

Parariss
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Batis 18mm f/2.8 designed by Tamron?

justruss wrote:
I wouldn't care if it was made by Bill's Paint Shop in Mozambique-- except for worker treatment, etc.-- if it performed the way it does. The best 18mm (135 format) lens ever produced, at relatively low weight, with class-leading AF speed and accuracy... I care about that far more than what any label suggests.

My little blue badges are taped over with something black like all the others anyway.

Hey, now, don't knock lenses from Bill's Paint Shop in Mozambique!

Granted, they're as large as a paint can, and you have to stack images from a red version, a green, and a blue version in order to get full color images, but for your efforts the output is as sharp as a paint scraper. Plus, the slave content is now less than 50%, and they'll even plaint a blue badge (or a red dot) on your can for no extra charge.

Nov 13, 2016 at 09:20 AM

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