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Archive 2016 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Makten
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p.86 #1 · p.86 #1 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
With the PCX 7.5m front-lens, it looks like the correction would be more even across the field. What do you guys think?
It would also allow some folks with regular thickness adapters to perhaps achieve infinity.

Problem is that I don't think any manufacturer makes a 7.5m PCX lens to test this.

Could be an option for those with the ZM that don't shoot landscapes, or crop to 4:3 (like me). Lesser midzone dip at the expense of a tad lower contrast and worse extreme corners.

Edit: OTOH, those curves are only describing the effects of the sensor cover glass, right? Then you have to take the lens' own MTF into account, so it's not very strange that the real images don't show what the simulations suggest.

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This is getting really interesting regarding the Voigtländer. Can anyone of you measure (with calipers) the thickness of an adapter that lets you get to infinity with the 5 m filter?

Also; how's the distortion of the Voigtländer? I love the total absence of distortion with the Loxia.

Sep 22, 2017 at 01:49 PM

Luvwine
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p.86 #2 · p.86 #2 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Steve Spencer wrote:
Stephen,

I like both of these shots and they show just how good the ZM 35 f/1.4 can be wide open. I also attribute the nice bokeh to your skill in composition. I have the lens uncorrected without the front filter and I think it is great for close-up shots, and great for landscape shots at f/5.6 or 6.3 and is sharp across the frame even without the front filter at those apertures. I find it hit and miss for portraits, however, as the bokeh can cause problems if you don't compose carefully. You have done a great job with...Show more →

I cannot say I have compared bokeh on and off. However, I have not noticed any negative effect on bokeh from using the front filter.

Sep 22, 2017 at 03:22 PM

sebboh
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p.86 #3 · p.86 #3 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks Bastian. I hadn't read that review yet (not sure how I missed it), but it was excellent. It agrees very much with my own experience. The sad part for me is that, despite Stephen's nice examples, I don't find any of these lenses very compelling for portraits and I would love a smaller 35mm for portraits. I do love the ZM for close up shots and it is great for stopped down landscapes as well and I prefer the high contrast look but none of these really work for me as an all around 35mm.

i find cv to be much more consistently pleasing for portraits than the zm and its equal for landscape. this is on my kolari mod camera though. i like the FE 35/1.4 better still for portraits (never notice the midzone dip for portraits), but it's size makes it a nogo for me.

Sep 23, 2017 at 02:57 AM

DavidBM
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p.86 #4 · p.86 #4 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Sep 23, 2017 at 03:42 AM

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p.86 #5 · p.86 #5 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

DavidBM wrote:
Yes I've never noticed a midzone dip on the FE 1.4/35 at portrait distances focussing on the subject. It' just seems to gently go from pretty sharp on axis to OK at the periphery very evenly. Infinity might be different, as might closer distances focussing centrally (but why would you do that on a non planar image?)

I agree, at portrait distances it is hardly visible. The dip can best be seen at far distances below f/2.8 between 12 to 15mm from the centre. For landscape photography I would stop down to f/5.6 or f/8 anyway and at near distances when I shoot WO it is not a problem either. But there might be situations when this behavior is not wishful.
Comparing it to my Vario-Sonnar 3.4/35-70 which i had to stop down to f/5.6 to get the same quality as the ZM35 at f/2.8 is showing the ZM is not bad at all.

Sep 23, 2017 at 04:33 AM

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p.86 #6 · p.86 #6 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

KlausJH wrote:
I agree, at portrait distances it is hardly visible. The dip can best be seen at far distances below f/2.8 between 12 to 15mm from the centre. For landscape photography I would stop down to f/5.6 or f/8 anyway and at near distances when I shoot WO it is not a problem either. But there might be situations when this behavior is not wishful.
Comparing it to my Vario-Sonnar 3.4/35-70 which i had to stop down to f/5.6 to get the same quality as the ZM35 at f/2.8 is showing the ZM is not bad at all.

It's there at portrait distances as well.

Sep 23, 2017 at 09:47 AM

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p.86 #7 · p.86 #7 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

I have not received my 5m front-lens yet and tested the CV 35/1.7 Ultron without it.

I find it to be sharp from wide open at center (similar to ZM 35/1.4). There is high contrast in the center/mid, gradually losing ground towards the corners. Similar high vignetting but more LaCA.

The center 'and' mid-field are in the same plane of focus without the front-lens and only the extreme edges need to be focused 'closer'. (because of the Sony sensor stack thickness causing induced field curvature)

If I focus on the extreme corners, it looks sharper but I still see astigmatism even at f/8. It does not match my Loxia 35/2 which it looks to be a golden copy with sharp edges even at f/5.6.
Perhaps the 5m front-filter will do a miracle here but I don't see the CV 35/1.7 being sharper than the Loxia 35/2 at the extreme edges at f/5.6 or f/8. (At least my copy). At center, my CV 35/1.7 is sharper than the Loxia even at f/4. (At f/2 and f/2.8 it's no contest)

Sep 23, 2017 at 09:56 AM

sebboh
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p.86 #8 · p.86 #8 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's there at portrait distances as well.

Try a more controlled test focusing at center and then move the subject to the mid-zone. There will be a noticeable loss of resolution.
Without the front-lens, this isn't very noticeable but the front-lens exaggerates it. If you use the lens naked on the A7RII and focus on mid-field, it will be sharper!

if you have to do a controlled test to spot it, it's probably not important for photography imo. sounds like it could be field curvature the way you describe it, if its only visible when you focus centrally?

Sep 23, 2017 at 10:46 AM

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p.86 #9 · p.86 #9 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

sebboh wrote:
if you have to do a controlled test to spot it, it's probably not important for photography imo. sounds like it could be field curvature the way you describe it, if its only visible when you focus centrally?

It's not field curvature because the midzone does not improve when focusing on it.

sebboh, all these lenses are high performance and the mid-zone dip is not that bad.

A controlled test is a way to compare it to other lenses and to itself (when focusing on other zones). For me, it's just a better way of spotting this instead of just checking my portraits and saying it's fine.

Sep 23, 2017 at 10:55 AM

sebboh
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p.86 #10 · p.86 #10 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's not field curvature because the midzone does not improve when focusing on it.

ah, i thought you were saying it was only visible when you focus and recompose, not when you focus directly on the subject.

Fred Miranda wrote:
sebboh, all these lenses are high performance and the mid-zone dip is not that bad.

it makes sense for comparing lenses, i wouldn't make any decisions as to which lens to keep and which lens to sell though based on things i can't notice in normal pictures though. there are lots of more obvious differences between these lenses.

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:10 AM

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p.86 #11 · p.86 #11 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

sebboh wrote:
ah, i thought you were saying it was only visible when you focus and recompose, not when you focus directly on the subject.

it makes sense for comparing lenses, i wouldn't make any decisions as to which lens to keep and which lens to sell though based on things i can't notice in normal pictures though. there are lots of more obvious differences between these lenses.

Do you still have the CV 35/1.7 + 5m lens? If so, I have a question for you.

Without the from lens, if you focus on the extreme edge, does it look 'the same', 'better' or 'worse' compared to using the front-lens on it?

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:15 AM

GMPhotography
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p.86 #12 · p.86 #12 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

I have a update that maybe relevant. I'm going to post it in the Big Bronco thread since it's all about the CV 35 1.7 . So check that out and maybe download the Raws. I also found a big trick in C1 that I totally forgot about . Corner sharpening and it works great. Maybe LR has this but I'm not sure since I don't use it

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:18 AM

sebboh
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p.86 #13 · p.86 #13 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
Do you still have the CV 35/1.7 + 5m lens? If so, I have a question for you.

Without the from lens, if you focus on the extreme edge, does it look 'the same', 'better' or 'worse' compared to using the front-lens on it?

the cv is actually nehemiah's and i believe he was planning to sell it because he prefers the pentax 35/1.8. if he still has it i'll check, but you might have your own filter first.

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:19 AM

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p.86 #14 · p.86 #14 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

sebboh wrote:
the cv is actually nehemiah's and i believe he was planning to sell it because he prefers the pentax 35/1.8. if he still has it i'll check, but you might have your own filter first.

Hmmm . . . I just saw a Pentax 31/1.8 in the used case this morning for $799. I was wondering why the high price! I guess it must have some merit to it.

Edited on Sep 23, 2017 at 09:50 PM · View previous versions

Sep 23, 2017 at 04:56 PM

DavidBM
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p.86 #15 · p.86 #15 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's there at portrait distances as well.

Try a more controlled test focusing at center and then move the subject to the mid-zone. There will be a noticeable loss of resolution.
Without the front-lens, this isn't very noticeable but the front-lens exaggerates it. If you use the lens naked on the A7RII and focus on mid-field, it will be sharper!

Klaus is replying to me, but I'm talking about the ZA and he seems to be talking about ZM. Fred are are mentioning front filters so are you talking about ZM (or CV?)?

Sep 23, 2017 at 05:03 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.86 #16 · p.86 #16 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

DavidBM wrote:
Klaus is replying to me, but I'm talking about the ZA and he seems to be talking about ZM. Fred are are mentioning front filters so are you talking about ZM (or CV?)?

I was talking about the ZM but it seems the CV will also suffer from this as well. See here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1453834/84#14191202

I can't test this yet since my front lens is not here yet.

Sep 23, 2017 at 05:26 PM

DavidBM
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p.86 #17 · p.86 #17 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
I was talking about the ZM but it seems the CV will also suffer from this as well. See here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1453834/84#14191202

I can't test this yet since my front lens is not here yet.

That makes sense!
It was a confusing exchange; sebboh was talking about ZA, I replied to him, then it turned into ZM in Klaus' contribution...so many d*mn 35s! And no One to Rule Them All.

Sep 23, 2017 at 05:41 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.86 #18 · p.86 #18 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

sebboh wrote:
i find cv to be much more consistently pleasing for portraits than the zm and its equal for landscape. this is on my kolari mod camera though. i like the FE 35/1.4 better still for portraits (never notice the midzone dip for portraits), but it's size makes it a nogo for me.

Bastian's review and my experience with the ZM makes me wonder whether I would ever be happy with the CV as a portrait lens. It looks like the CV has very similar bokeh to the ZM from Bastian's tests and that is really what bothers me about the ZM as a portrait lens. I get that for lots of people the high contrast look of the ZM wouldn't be what they want for portraits, but sometimes I like that. I think I have asked you before Derek, but how would you compare the CV to the Zeiss C/Y 35 f/1.4 for portraits? I am leaning in that directions these days, but I am still pretty undecided. I may just give up on shooting 35mm portraits on the Sony, and then I would go with the Zeiss Contax 645 45 f/2.8 on my Fuji GFX, which seems to my eye to share a lot of features with the C/Y 35 f/1.4. I am really enjoying the GFX for shooting portraits with its tilt/swivel EVF which allows shooting holding the camera at my chest.

Sep 23, 2017 at 05:45 PM

GMPhotography
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p.86 #19 · p.86 #19 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

DavidBM wrote:
That makes sense!
It was a confusing exchange; sebboh was talking about ZA, I replied to him, then it turned into ZM in Klaus' contribution...so many d*mn 35s! And no One to Rule Them All.

I'm still lost. I got the CV 35 and the PCX what to do you guys want me to try.

Sep 23, 2017 at 06:12 PM

GMPhotography
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p.86 #20 · p.86 #20 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Steve Spencer wrote:
Bastian's review and my experience with the ZM makes me wonder whether I would ever be happy with the CV as a portrait lens. It looks like the CV has very similar bokeh to the ZM from Bastian's tests and that is really what bothers me about the ZM as a portrait lens. I get that for lots of people the high contrast look of the ZM wouldn't be what they want for portraits, but sometimes I like that. I think I have asked you before Derek, but how would you compare the CV to the Zeiss C/Y 35...Show more →

Steve your wanting a Mandler look and your going to have to find one that's got that wide open glow. Leica R 35 1.4 might be your ticket. Or the old Contax 35 1.4

Sep 23, 2017 at 06:16 PM

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