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Archive 2016 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

BastianK
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p.84 #1 · p.84 #1 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

jhinkey wrote:
Well, now for me it's a decision between the 35/1.4 Zeiss+5m or 35/1.7 CV + 5m.
I like the Zeiss mechanics and the faster aperture, but the CV is significantly smaller and lighter and cheaper.
Midzone dip (especially with filter on) is too bad with the Zeiss ZM (up until f/4.0 to f/5.6).

Sep 22, 2017 at 12:37 AM

rsrsrs
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p.84 #2 · p.84 #2 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Did someone made a test with with a Leica Summicron-C oder with a Minolta M-Rokkor 40mm 1:2 ?

Sep 22, 2017 at 01:26 AM

Luvwine
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p.84 #3 · p.84 #3 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

BastianK wrote:
Midzone dip (especially with filter on) is too bad with the Zeiss ZM (up until f/4.0 to f/5.6).

I have not had any issues in my shooting, but then I shoot environmenta portraits wide open to F2 but landscapes usually at F5.6.

Sep 22, 2017 at 07:53 AM

BastianK
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p.84 #4 · p.84 #4 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Luvwine wrote:
I have not had any issues in my shooting, but then I shoot environmenta portraits wide open to F2 but landscapes usually at F5.6.
Off center sharpness for environmental portraits was not sufficient for my needs at f/1.4 and f/2.0.
CV 35mm 1.7 was way better here, that is the main reason I kept it and sold the ZM.

Sep 22, 2017 at 08:17 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #5 · p.84 #5 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Yes the CV 35 really solves that mid frame dip as there is none so going back to my 3or 4 person in a group shot scenario for instance is that the outer people will still be sharp more wide open. It evens beats th FE 35 here as the midframe is just outstanding on the CV but the FE does fall apert or go soft.

My last test really shows this doing infinity. Yes very clear seeing the mid zone go out on the FE and the Cv really expands the center sharpness. I'll load up those Raws this morning.

I do think the corners on the CV could use a little more correction so will see what the simulation reveals. But the CV center, mid frame are really knocking it out of the park. I'm being picky here as this is already in the bag and going nowhere as far as I'm concerned. It has a wonderful rendering to it but a little heavy on the vignetting but that can be adjusted in post. I actually like the vignetting but it will depend on the scene.

Sep 22, 2017 at 09:09 AM

Luvwine
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p.84 #6 · p.84 #6 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

BastianK wrote:
Off center sharpness for environmental portraits was not sufficient for my needs at f/1.4 and f/2.0.
CV 35mm 1.7 was way better here, that is the main reason I kept it and sold the ZM.

I don't do a lot of this, but perhaps my standards are lower. Here are a couple from a recent trip I made with family--shot in dim light in a restaurant at ISO 640:

Sep 22, 2017 at 09:29 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.84 #7 · p.84 #7 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Sep 22, 2017 at 09:35 AM

Luvwine
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p.84 #8 · p.84 #8 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
It was also one of the reasons I sold the ZM 35/1.4 + front lens. I usually place my subject at the 'rule of thirds' area and it was noticeably softer there at any distance. The plastic (

) 35/2.8ZA does much better in comparison even at smaller apertures.
It looks like the 35/1.7 Ultron does much better in that area but it's soft (actually OOF due to the induced FC) towards the extreme corners (without the front-lens)
If I get my 5m front lens today, I will post some comparisons.

The plastic 35/2.8 is only a 2.8 lens. I was shooting a 1.4 if memory serves due to low light. My copy of the 35/2.8 must not be as good as yours as at F5.6 the ZM is better than my 35/2.8 at infinity across the frame. My biggest beef with the 35/2.8 is that its build quality sucks. Then there is apparently a fair amount of copy variation. The CV 35/1.7 looks like a good and less expensive option if the infinity issue with adapter variation can be sorted out.

Sep 22, 2017 at 10:36 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.84 #9 · p.84 #9 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Luvwine wrote:
I don't do a lot of this, but perhaps my standards are lower. Here are a couple from a recent trip I made with family--shot in dim light in a restaurant at ISO 640:

http://m9.i.pbase.com/o10/91/505291/1/166248799.O5qnWj1a._DSC4727.jpg

http://m0.i.pbase.com/o10/91/505291/1/166248800.K6NW1b7S._DSC4733.jpg

Stephen,

I like both of these shots and they show just how good the ZM 35 f/1.4 can be wide open. I also attribute the nice bokeh to your skill in composition. I have the lens uncorrected without the front filter and I think it is great for close-up shots, and great for landscape shots at f/5.6 or 6.3 and is sharp across the frame even without the front filter at those apertures. I find it hit and miss for portraits, however, as the bokeh can cause problems if you don't compose carefully. You have done a great job with these shots, but the question I have is does the front filter in your view (or anyone else who has tried the front filter) seem to improve the bokeh or perhaps even detract from it. For me and how I use the lens, the bokeh is really the one issue that bothers me from time to time.

Sep 22, 2017 at 10:46 AM

BastianK
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p.84 #10 · p.84 #10 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Steve Spencer wrote:
Stephen,

I like both of these shots and they show just how good the ZM 35 f/1.4 can be wide open. I also attribute the nice bokeh to your skill in composition. I have the lens uncorrected without the front filter and I think it is great for close-up shots, and great for landscape shots at f/5.6 or 6.3 and is sharp across the frame even without the front filter at those apertures. I find it hit and miss for portraits, however, as the bokeh can cause problems if you don't compose carefully. You have done a great job with...Show more →
There are many with and without filter bokeh comparisons in this article, you just need to have a look:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/35mm-comparison-voigtlander-zeiss-leica/

Sep 22, 2017 at 10:50 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.84 #11 · p.84 #11 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Luvwine wrote:
The plastic 35/2.8 is only a 2.8 lens. I was shooting a 1.4 if memory serves due to low light. My copy of the 35/2.8 must not be as good as yours as at F5.6 the ZM is better than my 35/2.8 at infinity across the frame. My biggest beef with the 35/2.8 is that its build quality sucks. Then there is apparently a fair amount of copy variation. The CV 35/1.7 looks like a good and less expensive option if the infinity issue with adapter variation can be sorted out.

Any lens can look sharp at web sizes.

and I never said the ZM 35/1.4 was soft at mid-zone...I just mentioned it was 'softer than'...

Let's put copy variation aside and assume we have good copies of these lenses. In a controlled environment and side-by-side, the 35/2.8 is sharper than the ZM 35 + corrective lens at mid field even at f/7.1. It's not a big difference like "f/2.8" but it's still there even at smaller apertures (1:1). Extreme corners is a different story and the ZM 35/1.4 is outstanding there.

Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #12 · p.84 #12 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Here CV 35mm 1.7 at F4 vs the FE 35mm 1.4 at F4 mid frame

FE 35 is first

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:06 AM

scrappydog
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p.84 #13 · p.84 #13 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
Let's put copy variation aside and assume we have good copies of these lenses. In a controlled environment and side-by-side, the 35/2.8 is sharper than the ZM 35 + corrective lens at mid field even at f/7.1. It's not a big difference like "f/2.8" but it's still there even at smaller apertures (1:1). Extreme corners is a different story and the ZM 35/1.4 is outstanding there.

Fred, what was your take on the ZM 35/1.4 at f/8? I reviewed my lens tests with and without the PCX, and my lens with the PCX appears equally sharp in the center and mid-field, but very slightly sharper than the uncorrected ZM35 in the corners. Is this consistent with your findings?

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:07 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #14 · p.84 #14 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Full Frame of that crop is here the CV 35 at F4

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:08 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.84 #15 · p.84 #15 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

scrappydog wrote:
Fred, what was your take on the ZM 35/1.4 at f/8? I reviewed my lens tests with and without the PCX, and my lens with the PCX appears equally sharp in the center and mid-field, but very slightly sharper than the uncorrected ZM35 in the corners. Is this consistent with your findings?

Honestly, at f/8 (infinity) I would just use it without any lens correction (PCX).

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.84 #16 · p.84 #16 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

GMPhotography wrote:
Here CV 35mm 1.7 at F4 vs the FE 35mm 1.4 at F4 mid frame

FE 35 is first

The FE 35/1.4 ZA is not 'great' at mid-field either and that shows in your (1:1) sample...but if you post the extreme edges from the same file, you will see that the FE is stronger.

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:11 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #17 · p.84 #17 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
Honestly, at f/8 (infinity) I would just use it without any lens correction (PCX).

Yea F8 is not really the issue it will be at wider aperture the Front filter corrects everything.

Basically your taking a F8 lens and making it into a F4 lens with the front filter. The goal is correcting the field curvature , same with the CV 35...

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:12 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #18 · p.84 #18 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

Fred Miranda wrote:
The FE 35/1.4 ZA is not 'great' at mid-field either and that shows in your (1:1) sample...but if you post the extreme edges from the same file, you will see that the FE is stronger.

Yes and I posted the Raws on the Big Bronco test thread so please folks check them out..

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:13 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #19 · p.84 #19 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

So same files the upper left extreme corner

CV is first at F4

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:16 AM

GMPhotography
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p.84 #20 · p.84 #20 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

The CV is either longer in focal length or the FE is wider.

Sep 22, 2017 at 11:17 AM

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