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Archive 2016 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #1 · p.37 #1 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


HaruhikoT wrote:
No one tested yet, but I expect SLB-50-5000PM may make some improvement on the C Sonnar 1.5/50.

Not the same but similar specification lens Nokton 1.5/50 got better corner with PCX 5m.
See @BastianK@'s post:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1453834/22#13868198

Any test results would be appreciated


I have the Sonnar 50/1.5 C and will test it with the PCX 5m front-lens.



Jan 27, 2017 at 10:16 AM
davidzimand
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p.37 #2 · p.37 #2 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Phillip & Fred: Regarding the ZM 25mms, surely you're aware that years ago there was some test done showing it to be one of the highest resolving lenses ever. People question the results, which is appropriate. But even if it's a question, it's known to be quite amazing, and from my experience it is a very special lens. Center resolution compares to my Otus 55. I'm in NYC area, and you are welcome to borrow mine locally here.

One thing I've found interesting, and wondering if others are seeing this: it doesn't seem consistent all the time. I notice most tests people are posting are at quite a distance. I'm photographing walls left and right and at varying distances. I haven't found the exact point of difference yet, but it seems to vary if I'm 1meter away, or 2, 3 or 5 meters. Can't understand why that would be. Anyone else finding this?

Regarding 28mm, I've been feeling it would fit a niche for me lately and came close to getting the Otus. But once I picked one up - OMG, massive. Even the Zeiss guys were talking me out it. ZF sounds quite interesting, but it's also a great street focal length thus a ZM or G is appealing. Thanks Fred for your differentiation on those 28s. I've never used a G and am concerned about it feeling loose in the focusing - aka "fly by wire" feel, as opposed to a nice solid manual feel I prefer.

I also have the ZM 35/1.4 and not unhappy with it bare on the A7R2. Big difference with the front filter?

What can we all do to assist in putting together an easier to follow conclusion of this thread? Bastian's was a great start on phillipreeve but there is more info now, and it's hard going back rereading all of this, and for new comers to the thread.

Lastly, love to hear what folks at Zeiss think about all of this. I know they telling me not to buy ZMs for the Sony and they were mostly right. Would be amazing for them to make solutions. But I feel they are laughing at this, yet if results measurably compare or beat existing lenses that are supposed to be made for "digital" . . . Anyone talk to them?



Jan 27, 2017 at 10:42 AM
GMPhotography
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p.37 #3 · p.37 #3 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Why I bought the ZM25 . I need to get out and shoot it more as I'm still painting the bloody house and pool. Lol


Jan 27, 2017 at 11:02 AM
davidzimand
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p.37 #4 · p.37 #4 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Would also be great to put together a resource comparing the various Zeiss options available including Contax RTS, G, Zeiss ZM, ZF/ZE, Loxia, Batis, Otus. Quite an undertaking but crowdsourcing with various people pitching in I think it's doable. I'm offering to assist. I think the biggest challenge is varying locations of those who are interested and able. Second biggest challenge is consistent barometer for test images. But I think what is key are these available easy modifications that makes these far more viable options.


Jan 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #5 · p.37 #5 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


davidzimand wrote:
Would also be great to put together a resource comparing the various Zeiss options available including Contax RTS, G, Zeiss ZM, ZF/ZE, Loxia, Batis, Otus. Quite an undertaking but crowdsourcing with various people pitching in I think it's doable. I'm offering to assist. I think the biggest challenge is varying locations of those who are interested and able. Second biggest challenge is consistent barometer for test images. But I think what is key are these available easy modifications that makes these far more viable options.


This could be a job for @RCicala at LensRentals!



Jan 27, 2017 at 11:16 AM
BastianK
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p.37 #6 · p.37 #6 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


davidzimand wrote:
Bastian's was a great start on phillipreeve but there is more info now, and it's hard going back rereading all of this, and for new comers to the thread.

I don't know of any solid intel the post has not yet been updated with.
Anything specific I missed?



Jan 27, 2017 at 11:21 AM
Coltrane
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p.37 #7 · p.37 #7 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


So, if the Distagon 28/2 ZF is that good, why keep looking for other 28mm lenses? Well, although the center and mid-field look fantastic starting at f/4 at infinity, the very edges need at least f/8 to get very sharp (best at f/9). This is not due to FC, it's just this lens characteristic which comes from the same mold of the previous "Hollywood" Contax version. It's also on the heavy side with an adapter. Perhaps I can post some side-by-side samples in another thread comparing the Elmarit to the Distagon.

I have the Zeiss 28/2, but have always had an interest in the Elmarit R 28/2.8. I'm looking forward to your comparison of the 2 lenses.




Jan 27, 2017 at 12:08 PM
GMPhotography
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p.37 #8 · p.37 #8 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


I'll put the ZM 25 up to the Leica 28. My bet the ZM will smoke it. 🤣

I had the 28 and it is a great lens with a nice rendering but it's going to need F8 for the corners



Jan 27, 2017 at 12:46 PM
Luvwine
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p.37 #9 · p.37 #9 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


GMPhotography wrote:
I'll put the ZM 25 up to the Leica 28. My bet the ZM will smoke it. 🤣

I had the 28 and it is a great lens with a nice rendering but it's going to need F8 for the corners


The 25 won't beat the 28 if you have to crop for the 28mm equivalent. I had the Leica R 28 v. 2 and loved it, but had just gotten the Batis 25 and decided to keep the Batis. Then, I went to the Loxia 21 and sold the Batis so I bought a Leica M 28/1.4, which is what I have now. The M is pricey and I may sell it especially if it looks like a Loxia 28 is coming, but for me the gap from 21 to 28 makes a lot more sense than 25, especially since the Batis was more like 23.5. Now if you don't have 21 but do have 15 or 18, that is a whole different story.

Agreed the Leica R 28 will need smaller than F5.6 for corners.



Jan 27, 2017 at 12:54 PM
naturephoto1
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p.37 #10 · p.37 #10 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


GMPhotography wrote:
I'll put the ZM 25 up to the Leica 28. My bet the ZM will smoke it. 🤣

I had the 28 and it is a great lens with a nice rendering but it's going to need F8 for the corners


Hi Guy,

I am still keeping my R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 and normally need f8 or f11 for DOF for my landscape work. By the way, I suspect that my Leica M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph is even better than the ZM 25 at least that is what I have heard from those using both lenses on an Leica M camera body. With a modded A7 series camera it does extemely well, though with my A7rM V3 I do need to use CornerFix for the edge and corner color and vignetting. I do not intend to part with the tiny M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph.

By the way, the R 28mm f2.8 V2 even holds up well at f16 when needed for DOF even into the corners as seen below in the first 2 images. The third image is with the 28mm v2.8 Elmarit V2 with a Singh-Ray Lighter Brighter Color Combo Polarizer (Warm Polarizer with Color Intensifier) at f11.

Rich
















Edited on Jan 27, 2017 at 01:46 PM · View previous versions



Jan 27, 2017 at 01:04 PM
GMPhotography
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p.37 #11 · p.37 #11 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Who said crop. Same framing move 3 steps forward. Lol

I'm just busting Fred. If I don't give him a hard time who will. Love from one lens whore to another. 😀

Luvwine wrote:
The 25 won't beat the 28 if you have to crop for the 28mm equivalent. I had the Leica R 28 v. 2 and loved it, but had just gotten the Batis 25 and decided to keep the Batis. Then, I went to the Loxia 21 and sold the Batis so I bought a Leica M 28/1.4, which is what I have now. The M is pricey and I may sell it especially if it looks like a Loxia 28 is coming, but for me the gap from 21 to 28 makes a lot more sense than 25, especially since
...Show more



Jan 27, 2017 at 01:12 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #12 · p.37 #12 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing




I'm not biased towards any system or lens. I've tested many lenses over the years and I've learned that there are compromises in all formulas. The trick is to get the best compromise for your application.

I will post a Leica 28/2.8 Elmarit-R II vs Zeiss 28/2 Distagon ZF next week.



Jan 27, 2017 at 01:31 PM
robgo2
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p.37 #13 · p.37 #13 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


FYI, I just spoke with Brad at OptoSigma U.S. to place an order for a PCX 5m lens. He told me that he has taken orders from about 20 people coming from the Fred Miranda website and that he is very appreciative of the business. No doubt, there are folks purchasing from other vendors as well. To me, this seems like a fairly high level of interest in and action taken for what is a rather esoteric lens issue. Good on the FM forum.

Rob

Edited on Jan 27, 2017 at 08:53 PM · View previous versions



Jan 27, 2017 at 02:55 PM
DavidBM
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p.37 #14 · p.37 #14 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


GMPhotography wrote:
I'll put the ZM 25 up to the Leica 28. My bet the ZM will smoke it. 🤣

I had the 28 and it is a great lens with a nice rendering but it's going to need F8 for the corners


I seem to remember that Zeiss' boast when the ZM25 came out was that it was centrally diffraction limited wide open! If so it literally can't be improved on centrally...




Jan 27, 2017 at 03:00 PM
GMPhotography
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p.37 #15 · p.37 #15 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


I think my credit card got charged. Maybe mine is finally on it's way

robgo2 wrote:
FYI, I just spoke with Brad at OptoSigma U.S. to place an order for a PCX 5m lens. He told me that he has taken orders from about 20 people coming from the Fred Miranda website and that he is very appreciative of the business. No doubt, there are folks purchasing from other vendors as well. To me, this seems like a fairly high level of interest in and action for what is a rather esoteric lens issue. Good on the FM forum.

Rob




Jan 27, 2017 at 03:59 PM
DavidBM
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p.37 #16 · p.37 #16 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Anyone here tried the recent Elmarit-M 2.8/28 with a correction element? Anyone able to guess what filter would work with it?


Jan 27, 2017 at 07:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #17 · p.37 #17 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


DavidBM wrote:
Anyone here tried the recent Elmarit-M 2.8/28 with a correction element? Anyone able to guess what filter would work with it?


I bet a correction element would work. I tested the new version and there is no smearing on the A7RII. The only problem is the induced field curvature which a front-end will very likely correct. The trick is finding out which front-lens strength based on the lens exit pupil distance.

The entrance pupil is 12,8 mm (related to the first lens surface in light direction)
I can't any info on the exit pupil which I think it's essential to calculate the correct focal length of the PCX lens.



Jan 27, 2017 at 07:45 PM
rico
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p.37 #18 · p.37 #18 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Are we expecting different behavior from the Elmarit-M 28 ASPH v1 versus v2? The v2 optical change seems apocryphal. The v1 clearly suffers astigmatism, and should be fixable using a front element. I mean to take a diopter measurement.


Jan 28, 2017 at 05:42 AM
DavidBM
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p.37 #19 · p.37 #19 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


rico wrote:
Are we expecting different behavior from the Elmarit-M 28 ASPH v1 versus v2? The v2 optical change seems apocryphal. The v1 clearly suffers astigmatism, and should be fixable using a front element. I mean to take a diopter measurement.


I thought (though I don't follow much of what goes on in the House of Leica) that the v2 was basically optically the same, but with a tweak to work better on digital coverglass? Rather like the Loxia 35 vs. ZM Biogon. This kind of change doesn't show up in a diagram, but can make a huge difference in corner performance. Of course it's easy to see how the no change view could spread: if you are a film M use, the new version would be no better and maybe worse.



Jan 28, 2017 at 05:46 AM
sebboh
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p.37 #20 · p.37 #20 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


big thanks to Fred for the optosigma 1.5 filter complete with placement reversed in step up/down rings!

i got it today and stuck it on my modified contax g 28:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/264/31735355504_637017e71a_o.jpg
it still looks pretty good, though i'm not super excited about the extra centimeter in length.

performance improvement is pretty dramatic, best aperture across the frame seems to be f/8 on my a7:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/396/31735355754_f45980b7e1_o.jpg
processing is just LR defaults plus some vignetting correction. the sun was just out of the frame from the corner crop btw.

can't wait to try some real shots and closeups with it.




Jan 28, 2017 at 08:12 PM
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