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Archive 2016 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Jorge Torralba
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

We have been pretty happy with the A7 series. It's been a great camera due to its capabilities and attractive to many because of it's size. It almost seems as if the A series have been abandoned or just put o the back burner.

Now were are getting these new GM lenses which by most reports and experience are just out of this world good! I have the 85, the 24-70 and I can vouch for their reputation. But with all good stuff there are complaints. Mainly they new lenses are too big and defeat the purpose of the A7.

Here is my take on it. I may be wrong but it is plausible and likely.

A7 has great glass already in a small form factor. Loxia, FE, adapted M, Batis etc ...
A99 or other A cameras are slowly being forgotten.
A9 is a rumor and on everyones wish list.

So having said that. I think that sony will make a larger A9/A99 style camera with an FE mount. I think the new A99 if it comes out or the new A9 will balance well with these newer GM and Zeiss lenses being introduced. Sony will be able to squash the typical criticism of a new camera with no new lens. The egg is coming before the chicken. I am thinking we will see something the size of a Leica SL and a new adapter that will make use of the A mount glass on the new FE body but give you the option of using the new GM glass natively.

There is no reason for two mount system from Sony anymore. A hybrid camera that can finally eliminate the DSLR and merge it into a mirrorless camera is what we will see.

Just my 2 cents.

Jul 27, 2016 at 12:08 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Sounds right Jorge. Although I still believe Sony will release an A-mount A99 replacement as well.

Jul 27, 2016 at 01:50 PM

Holger
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Jorge Torralba wrote:
We have been pretty happy with the A7 series. It's been a great camera due to its capabilities and attractive to many because of it's size. It almost seems as if the A series have been abandoned or just put o the back burner.

Now were are getting these new GM lenses which by most reports and experience are just out of this world good! I have the 85, the 24-70 and I can vouch for their reputation. But with all good stuff there are complaints. Mainly they new lenses are too big and defeat the purpose of the...Show more →
Personally, I can't understand this "defeats the purpose"-talk. It may be important to some, but not for all. However, it is formulated like it were a mathematical axiom. If there were no other advantages than size, if slower lenses were enough to get a small form factor, you could go with Fuji or m43, too.
I like that Sony is bringing out the f1.4 lenses, the f2.8 zooms, as I (and many others) want to use those, with all the advantages mirrorless cameras provide, and with all the great IQ provided. I use the battery grip and with it the A7rii perfectly balances all lenses. Much more comfortable to use for 10h in a row at weddings. And iff I want it small, I can use it without grip and small primes.
Nevertheless an A9 with dual card slots and joystick would be tempting (if Sony keeps prices under control).

Jul 27, 2016 at 02:31 PM

gocolts
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

An A9 & A9R, in my opinion, could succeed with the following:

Same 42mp sensor (I know, we always want more, but stay with me...)
8fps w/ a good buffer
weatherproof (similar to something like a 5D3)
dual batteries & dual memory cards
All the other bells & whistles the A7RII already has.

To me, a camera like this would address most of the critical comments DSLR users have for not giving the FE-mount a shot. And- would enable those like me who are saying "I still need to hold onto my DSLR for action & sports stuff" to have only one camera...and then I'd probably spring for the FE 70-200 f/2.8 as well, along with a 70-400 if they ever made an FE version.

I know, the FE-mount was supposed to provide a small camera, which is part of the reason I came partially to Sony. But an A9 would provide the FE user options, all of which would take the same lenses.

Jul 27, 2016 at 02:43 PM

chez
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Holger wrote:
Personally, I can't understand this "defeats the purpose"-talk. It may be important to some, but not for all. However, it is formulated like it were a mathematical axiom. If there were no other advantages than size, if slower lenses were enough to get a small form factor, you could go with Fuji or m43, too.
I like that Sony is bringing out the f1.4 lenses, the f2.8 zooms, as I (and many others) want to use those, with all the advantages mirrorless cameras provide, and with all the great IQ provided. I use the battery grip and with it the...Show more →

The other nice thing to add regarding the compact Sony cameras is that you can go light by putting an 35 2.8 or 28 2.0 lens onto the camera. When traveling, I have both my heavy Zeiss glass for tripod based landscape shots and also my light primes for street shots...all with the same camera.

Once the camera is big...it can't get small.

Jul 27, 2016 at 02:45 PM

virtualrain
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

chez wrote:
The other nice thing to add regarding the compact Sony cameras is that you can go light by putting an 35 2.8 or 28 2.0 lens onto the camera. When traveling, I have both my heavy Zeiss glass for tripod based landscape shots and also my light primes for street shots...all with the same camera.

Once the camera is big...it can't get small.

This is exactly how I feel... Full-frame E-mount can be as small or as big as you want it. Especially if Sony offers an A9 with bigger battery and dual card slots. I use to shoot a 5D3 with exotic glass and really love the change to a smaller lighter kit with small contrasty Zeiss primes. I'll be sticking with this kit for the foreseeable future, but I'm glad that Sony is addressing the pro needs... The more users and versatility this platform has, the better for all of us.

Jul 27, 2016 at 02:53 PM

GMPhotography
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

I'm not in favor of detests the purpose idea. Too many options for these cameras and you just need to pick your poison . I don't mind a few big lenses and I bought Sony for other reasons than size and weight

Jul 27, 2016 at 03:08 PM

retrofocus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Jorge Torralba wrote:
A9 is a rumor and on everyones wish list.

Not on mine - I couldn't care less for a bigger mirrorless camera than the A7 series and the A7R II already is. Likely the A9 series is something I will read about and decide to skip.

Jul 27, 2016 at 03:44 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

The contrary view, Jorge:

The a7 series was the Trojan Horse, a way into the C/N stronghold, round the back door rather than bash up against the main gates (A mount approach). Once inside, the FF Sony cameras will all grow back to DSLR weight/size. They pretty much have to for long telephoto (big market) needs, in any case.

Disagree that we have enough small, light lenses from the S/Z consortium. Leica have enough small, light lenses for the M cameras - count them, add CV and ZM. The best ones can't work too well on FE, or are out of reach financially to the Sony user group. Adapters are naff and costly and fiddly - a low end fudge in engineering terms. No one else in FF does it.

So just as one swallow does not make a summer, a handful of light lenses do not a light, high IQ lens range make. Sony either makes two lines - hard work - or leaves a open door market niche for non-Leica enthusiasts you could drive a truck through.

If it was not for Zeiss L/B...this would be far more transparent. They want you using big cameras, who knew, who could guess? Anyone looking at the recent lens releases.

Jul 27, 2016 at 05:20 PM

stevei
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

The main reason I switched from Canon to Sony was that I was sick to death of Canon frustrating customers by linking features to irrelevant factors. So if you wanted their top of the range features, the camera had to be big, even though there is no reason why a camera has to be big to have those features. And omitting features such as a tilt screen from the 5DSR. I'd had enough.

Now I am concerned Sony is heading the same way. I loved the fact that their top of the range camera, the A7RII, is no bigger than a lesser full frame camera. If they do bring out a larger FE camera with better functionality, I hope they also offer the same functionality in the smallest possible body, or they will be annoying me as much as Canon did.

As for the size of lenses, my annoyances with Sony/Zeiss are:
- they haven't filled out the range of compact lenses, e.g. I'd like to see a full matching range of lenses in the same form factor as the 55/1.8.
- lenses seem unnecessarily large. Look at the new Sony Zeiss 50/1.4 vs the Canon 135/2L, for example. The Canon 135 is almost no bigger than the size of the front element, and manages to fit AF into that space. Why does the Sony Zeiss 50/1.4 need to be so enormous? Or the Batis 25 is another example of a lens with no obvious need to be the size it is, when you look at a diagram of the elements inside it, and see how small the glass is compared to the casing. Canon 24/1.4 83.5mm diameter. Batis 25/2 81mm diameter.

I'm convinced some of the recent sizing of lenses is an intentional placebo effect to make people perceive them as better. If they'll be a better match for a future larger FE camera, I have no problem with the larger camera and lenses existing, I just hope they also provide for people who want all the same functionality in a smaller body, and a full range of smaller lenses to go with that smaller body.

Jul 27, 2016 at 05:32 PM

virtualrain
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

stevei wrote:
The main reason I switched from Canon to Sony was that I was sick to death of Canon frustrating customers by linking features to irrelevant factors. So if you wanted their top of the range features, the camera had to be big, even though there is no reason why a camera has to be big to have those features. And omitting features such as a tilt screen from the 5DSR. I'd had enough.

Now I am concerned Sony is heading the same way. I loved the fact that their top of the range camera, the A7RII, is no bigger than a...Show more →

I hope you're right. I think the difference between Sony and Canon is that Canon thinks larger size is a feature people will pay more for. Sony simply charges for features, not size. Of course, you can't expect Sony to bring some features from a larger body to a smaller one (like dual cards, larger batteries, and more physical buttons/controls). However, if they do launch a new larger flagship body, I hope they realize that a large part of their fan base wants any added sensor , AF, and IQ enhancements added to the a7 line as well.

EDIT: As for lens size... people are demanding edge-to-edge sharpness on a 42MPx sensor (and tomorrow even higher)... you need good (sometimes oversized) glass for that and all the corrections required to get a sharp image free of CA in the corners. However, I do wonder if Sony could learn something about miniaturizing AF components. As you say, some of the AF lens barrels are ridiculously oversized for the glass they contain.

Jul 27, 2016 at 07:03 PM

mogul
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

virtualrain wrote:
I hope you're right. I think the difference between Sony and Canon is that Canon thinks larger size is a feature people will pay more for. Sony simply charges for features, not size. Of course, you can't expect Sony to bring some features from a larger body to a smaller one (like dual cards, larger batteries, and more physical buttons/controls). However, if they do launch a new larger flagship body, I hope they realize that a large part of their fan base wants any added sensor , AF, and IQ enhancements added to the a7 line as well.

EDIT: As...Show more →
Sony can do anything they want; we as consumers are the final arbiter. Look at the "easy choice" 85 f2.8 in A mount, very tiny and light wright.

Jul 27, 2016 at 08:20 PM

ecarlino
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

i'm always amused that the folks that prefer big/full_featured/perfect IQ think they're being ignored;

similarly, the folks that prefer small & light think they're being ignored.

and EVERYONE seems to think they KNOW what Sony has planned and it's NOT what they're interested in -

yet, who the hell is buying all this Sony equipment?

furthermore, the FE mount has been on a roll like no other camera mfg/system over the past 3 yrs - BUT it's ONLY been 3 yrs people!

Give them another 3 or 4 yrs and imagine how full each line of lenses - complete lines of Loxia, Batis, GM, etc etc

Jul 27, 2016 at 08:25 PM

chrisgibbs
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

ecarlino wrote:
i'm always amused that the folks that prefer big/full_featured/perfect IQ think they're being ignored;

similarly, the folks that prefer small & light think they're being ignored.

and EVERYONE seems to think they KNOW what Sony has planned and it's NOT what they're interested in -

yet, who the hell is buying all this Sony equipment?

furthermore, the FE mount has been on a roll like no other camera mfg/system over the past 3 yrs - BUT it's ONLY been 3 yrs people!

Give them another 3 or 4 yrs and imagine how full each line of lenses - complete lines of Loxia, Batis, GM, etc...Show more →

Just about anyone with a connection to (or interest in) the video industry owns a Sony because its the only EVF equipped 135 4K video centric sensor out there, and by default offers them a pretty unique video aesthetic. That's a very large customer base. ~Chris

Jul 27, 2016 at 08:37 PM

GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Holger wrote:
Personally, I can't understand this "defeats the purpose"-talk. It may be important to some, but not for all. However, it is formulated like it were a mathematical axiom. If there were no other advantages than size, if slower lenses were enough to get a small form factor, you could go with Fuji or m43, too.
I like that Sony is bringing out the f1.4 lenses, the f2.8 zooms, as I (and many others) want to use those, with all the advantages mirrorless cameras provide, and with all the great IQ provided. I use the battery grip and with it the...Show more →

Fully agree with you amigo.
The whole "defeats the purpose" makes no sense. People need to realize first that the days of size being the main or even only advantage of mirrorless is in the past.
Mirrorless offer tones of advantages these days. Plus if you want fast glass then there is no way around it...they are going to get big and lots of users were screaming for faster glass.
I dont care about glass size but would love for Sony to offer both, slower and smaller alternatives aside from fast bigger lenses so all users can be happy.

Jul 27, 2016 at 09:33 PM

charles.K
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

Personally I love the A7rII and kudos to Sony/Zeiss and third parties bringing new series of lenses.

Sony had no choice if it was to be considered as a serious player in the market against Canon/Nikon. The lenses maybe tending to fast/larger/heavier than we may like but we also have the slower/light/small options to choose from.

The worst thing about camera systems that may not be complete is having a wish list of lenses and features not currently available. We waste our time as photographers wishing/hoping for the next lens and body that will be our holy grail.

Edited on Jul 28, 2016 at 03:08 AM · View previous versions

Jul 27, 2016 at 10:45 PM

RFMP
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

A much bigger battery will be necessary to compete with the Canon 1 DX M2 and Nikon D5 for AFing long glass, as well as full weather-proofing. I am always pleased with the photos from the 42 mp sensor Sony has implemented in the 7RM2 and RX1R2. IBIS is a BIG advantage in shooting high res photos. Sony has white balance and exposure pretty much nailed. Every one else is trying to catch up. FE lens selection is almost complete. I will hopefully testing the 70-200 GM w/ 2x/TC this weekend against the 1DX M2 this weekend.

FYI, Sigmas TC's are not yet supported for all native functions.

Jul 27, 2016 at 10:52 PM

justruss
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

stevei wrote:
The main reason I switched from Canon to Sony was that I was sick to death of Canon frustrating customers by linking features to irrelevant factors. So if you wanted their top of the range features, the camera had to be big, even though there is no reason why a camera has to be big to have those features. And omitting features such as a tilt screen from the 5DSR. I'd had enough.

Now I am concerned Sony is heading the same way. I loved the fact that their top of the range camera, the A7RII, is no bigger than a...Show more →

This has been in my mind as well.

The A7rII (and Batis lenses) is as big as I want to go with my primary camera. I'd love an even smaller secondary camera that maintains the same resolution, hopefully IBIS, but gives up on things on the edge limited by technical rather than marketing issues (video recording length, bufffer, etc).

I'm all for an A9 with huge battery capacity, better heat dissipation, dual card slots, and all the things necessary to make a great balanced, pro-sports/wildlife tool capable of really competing with DSLRs.

BUT: I sincerely hope this doesn't come in a way that means Sony adopts the CaNikon/cell phone method of artificially (as in those things not limited by technical/physical limits) holding back features from the smaller cameras.

By all means, build us an A9 and big, no-compromise GM lenses. But keep giving us an A7Rx line that aims to provide flagship features, as they are technically possible in a body no bigger than it is. And keep giving us lenses (more FE 28mm, 50mm) so that we can build big and small kits depending on our uses.

I didn't go from a 5D2 to an A7rII only for size/weight-- but it was a significant factor. I love the change I've made.

Jul 28, 2016 at 03:57 AM

realVivek
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

retrofocus wrote:
Not on mine - I couldn't care less for a bigger mirrorless camera than the A7 series and the A7R II already is. Likely the A9 series is something I will read about and decide to skip.

The RX1R II (apart from the original A7 series cams) is likely to be my last Sony purchase. I am not at all interested in the truck sized lenses and the bloated camera bodies.

Jul 28, 2016 at 05:09 AM

justruss
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · My take on Sony and New camera and lenses and what is really happening

realVivek wrote:
The RX1R II (apart from the original A7 series cams) is likely to be my last Sony purchase. I am not at all interested in the truck sized lenses and the bloated camera bodies.

It's almost like some people are angry about the availability of choices that don't perfectly line up with their own, personalized vision. As if making someone else happy about the option to go big/no compromise bothers you. Presumably you bought into the system for what it provided, not what it (never explicitly) promised to provide, balanced against what other systems provided.

I mean, if a camera system (body + lenses + other parts) doesn't give you what you need, by all means look elsewhere! But don't be angry at a company (whose goal is really just to make money) trying to follow where the market is leading, notably when it also offers things that can appeal to multiple markets and buyers.

Look, even Fuji started with some nice, cheap, compact primes (18mm, 35mm, 50mm)-- but its blockbusters are pretty big, and not all that cheap. Keep in mind these are APS-C lenses!

All these markets are in flux. We're dealing with new systems, new shooting paradigms, etc. You gotta give it some time to see what maturity means to these systems and the market.

Jul 28, 2016 at 05:22 AM

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