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Archive 2016 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

AGeoJO wrote:
With that said, the way I look at it, Fred, although I read/watch reviews and I look at charts/graphs but I rely MORE on user's experience evaluation and look at the rendition of images generated but the difference lenses. Sharpness alone doesn't make/break the lens, IMHO. Bokeh rendition is also high on my list.

We never know if there are bias in reviews either. Out of focus rendition, color, bokeh quality and aberration control should be priority when testing fast lenses. Fortunately, rendering can be examined even in resized sample images.

Jul 23, 2016 at 10:27 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

bjornthun wrote:
I don't read French, so I studied their graphs instead. I also own the Sony 50/1.8 FE, and it does well stopped down at long distances. At f/1.8 it's not that great in real life either, only the very center is ok. So, I find the test indicate real performance of the Sony 50/1.8 FE.

If ,as Fred has said, the French tests are measured at a closer distance, then one cannot infer that the Samyang is worse than the Sony 50/1.8 at infinity just because the 50/1.8 might perform well at infinity AND at closer distances stopped down (your experience). I.e. the graphs you are going by are just a coincidence with regard to your experience and cannot be relied upon with the other tested lenses.

I do think all of the reviews should be taken with a large lump of salt due to methodology, bias and sample variation. At best, any single review is just one data point to consider.

Jul 23, 2016 at 10:43 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

I still trust Roger's the most.

Jul 23, 2016 at 10:51 AM

chrisgibbs
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

charles.K wrote:
I do think if you are intending to buy a f/1.4 lens, it should be used at f/1.4 - 1.8. From the reviews I see a lot of CA which would make it difficult to PP out. At least with the later generation of native lenses this is not really an issue anymore.

Again until the lens is out and tested it may prove to be quite a gem.

And no support for in-camera lens profiles for that Samyang, so for video shooters the CA could be an even bigger issue.

Jul 23, 2016 at 11:00 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Fred Miranda wrote:
I still trust Roger's the most.

Agree. I hope Roger does a teardown of the Samyang as I'm curious to see how well it's put together.

Jul 23, 2016 at 11:18 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Agree. I hope Roger does a teardown of the Samyang as I'm curious to see how well it's put together.

I hope he tests a few copies of the Samyang 50/1.4 using the exact same methodology, so we can have a more precise idea of how it compares against both 50 and 55 ZAs.

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:14 PM

freaklikeme
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
You could almost replace "Samyang" with "Sony" in that sentence a year or two ago with regard to FE lenses...

As far as support goes, I agree. Sony certainly proved it's one thing to have the hot-selling tech but another to support the generally fussy user-base buying it. Hopefully the Samyang service experience isn't any worse.

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:16 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

freaklikeme wrote:
As far as support goes, I agree. Sony certainly proved it's one thing to have the hot-selling tech but another to support the generally fussy user-base buying it. Hopefully the Samyang service experience isn't any worse.

Samyang support may be a mystery and could be worse. It looks like it might be through the local distributor, which is Elite Brands in the U.S. but there is not much info I can find otherwise.

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:36 PM

bjornthun
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
If ,as Fred has said, the French tests are measured at a closer distance, then one cannot infer that the Samyang is worse than the Sony 50/1.8 at infinity just because the 50/1.8 might perform well at infinity AND at closer distances stopped down (your experience). I.e. the graphs you are going by are just a coincidence with regard to your experience and cannot be relied upon with the other tested lenses.

I do think all of the reviews should be taken with a large lump of salt due to methodology, bias and sample variation. At best, any single review...Show more →

Indeed I do take tests with a grain of salt. As it happens, I bought my Sony 50/1.8 FE before the Zony 50/1.4 FE was announced. Whether the outcome of the test is a coincidence, we will know when we have more tests. Particularly I hope, that Roger Cicala and lensrentals will be able to test the Samyang 50/1.4 and maybe throw in the 50/1.8 FE for good measure. I am curious to see, how much more lenses like the Zony 50/1.4 can offer for landscapes, if anything in a test at infinity.

My goal with purchasing the 50/1.8 FE was to complete building a kit of small lightweight full frame AF lenses for hiking, i.e. 28/2, 50/1.8 + 85/2.8 (Sony SAM), which I have accomplished. Thus one more reason for my interest in the test by Les Numeriques.

Edited on Jul 23, 2016 at 01:45 PM · View previous versions

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:40 PM

bjornthun
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's an Imatest graph which is not tested at infinity.
I agree we should plot the results from all these reviews in a graph and average them out!

I still trust Roger's the most.

Which distance is used for Imatest?

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:42 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

bjornthun wrote:
Which distance is used for Imatest?

I think it depends on the size of the chart. Most certainly not infinity.

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:43 PM

bjornthun
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Fred Miranda wrote:
I think it depends on the size of the chart. Most certainly not infinity.

This could depend on the focal length of the lens tested as well. A tele lens may require a much longer distance to approximate infinity. Another factor will be floating lens element designs, most(?) modern lenses.

We really don't have an assesment of how well infinity performance is approximated by a test according to an Imatest procedure.

Jul 23, 2016 at 01:49 PM

pdmphoto
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Ephotozine - What terrible samples images!

The night shot at f/1.4 has camera shake and look like its focus at infinity (and nothing exept the very background is near infinity).

The red flower shot at F/1.4 has good central sharpness (albeit very narrow depth of field at that close distance).Bokeh looks very good for that kind of shot a f/1.4. Edges of the frame are sharp, since his test chart is showing soft corners that points to a curved image plane.

Not a single portrait or normal indoor static subject shot at f/1.4?

What's the big deal about the CA? It looks to be the easily correctable form. It's a one click solution in most PP programs today. CA is not apparent in any Sony/Zeiss lenses because it is fixed in camera. I've seen uncorrected shots from the Zony 16-35/4 that make this lens looks good.

It looks like it could be a very good performing lens. More samples are needed. Ephotozine gets no respect from me.

Jul 23, 2016 at 02:08 PM

Charlie N
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

chez wrote:
It looks like the center is fine wide open. Do you really care about the corners when shooting at 1.4?

you kind of do, since portraits have eyes placed off center. For instance, the 85L is very strong in the center wide open, but mid frame gets a dramatic dip. Shooting with an A7r or rii midframe would look soft like almost OOF like, but it's just soft as heck. Makes you double guess if in focus... The GM has very good midframe wide open, not perfect, but only the most severe peepers would say it's bad.

Jul 23, 2016 at 05:46 PM

DavidBM
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Fred Miranda wrote:
Dpreview tested at infinity and Les Numeriques at closer range. Both review sites showed the 55/1.8ZA and Samyang 50/1.4 being sharper than the Sony 50/1.4ZA. (center and edge). Can we really trust reviews anymore? They are all over the place!
When we read that, our first reaction is to blame on lens variation but that in itself is bad news for Sony.

Dpreview also demonstrated that the 55/1.8ZA has smoother out of focus rendition at f/1.8! (more blur). That surprised me at first but I then realized we are comparing 50mm to 55mm.

One thought is that these lenses are good enough and close enough that even if variation is low, the amount of variation between individual lenses is just as great as the variation between the average of one model and the average of another.

If that were true

(A) we shouldn't blame the makers in those cases
(B) individual tests are useless (even ones where you rule out decentred ones, because we know the variation among well centered lenses is just as high)
(C) maybe the average of many tests is slightly helpful, but we would need a complicated statistical model to make it informative combined with good knowledge of the test methods
(D) even tests like Rogers with many samples would only improve your odds of getting a top lens
(E) ultimately it would all come down to cherry picking and testing multiple samples

Of course a different take home message would be that with modern lenses if it's not obviously defective, at least from the result ion side of things, it's a bit of a fetish to want to own 'the best' - they are almost all excellent.

Jul 23, 2016 at 06:17 PM

chez
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

DavidBM wrote:
One thought is that these lenses are good enough and close enough that even if variation is low, the amount of variation between individual lenses is just as great as the variation between the average of one model and the average of another.

If that were true

(A) we shouldn't blame the makers in those cases
(B) individual tests are useless (even ones where you rule out decentred ones, because we know the variation among well centered lenses is just as high)
(C) maybe the average of many tests is slightly helpful, but we would need a complicated statistical model to make it informative...Show more →

My rule is if it looks good in a 24x36 print...it's good enough. Might not be the best copy or best lens out there, but at some point one has to say it's good enough and move onto actual photography.

Jul 23, 2016 at 06:39 PM

Beni
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Will this lens work with the A7r, i.e. contrast detect focus or does it require phase detect to work properly? One would expect it would be fine but who knows with a 3rd party AF lens from a company who have never done AF lenses in the past.

Jul 24, 2016 at 08:18 AM

johnctharp
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

pdmphoto wrote:
What's the big deal about the CA? It looks to be the easily correctable form. It's a one click solution in most PP programs today. CA is not apparent in any Sony/Zeiss lenses because it is fixed in camera.

You're not going to 'one click' this [edit: see Fred's post on top of Page 3 for example] CA away, sorry, and it's not going to get fixed by any in-camera profile either.

Also, you might search for some shots of the FE55: there's LoCA a-plenty, and again, that's the kind that no profile can (yet) cure.

In addition to the superior rendering, this is the reason that the FE 50/1.4 is worth its asking price.

Edited on Jul 24, 2016 at 11:50 AM · View previous versions

Jul 24, 2016 at 08:57 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

johnctharp wrote:
You're not going to 'one click' this CA away, sorry, and it's not going to get fixed by any in-camera profile either.

Also, you might search for some shots of the FE55: there's LoCA a-plenty, and again, that's the kind that no profile can (yet) cure.

In addition to the superior rendering, this is the reason that the FE 50/1.4 is worth its asking price.

What a great subject - B&W striped shirt at an angle - to show LoCA. That is very severe in this example.

Jul 24, 2016 at 10:25 AM

johnctharp
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Pre-order: Samyang AF 50mm f/1.4 FE ($699)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
What a great subject - B&W striped shirt at an angle - to show LoCA. That is very severe in this example.

Exactly. I'd love to see this exact shot with the FE55 (which shouldn't be as extreme, but still present), FE 50/1.4, 50 Art, and possibly the Otus 55 as a control, for an overall comparison.

Jul 24, 2016 at 10:30 AM

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