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Archive 2016 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!

  
 
GMPhotography
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


I think your reading into it too much. How this performs for real is what counts the numbers just give us where it sits. Mid field dip may mean absolutely nothing in real world. It sounds really good we just need to get into the field now and see how those numbers relate to what we see. Personnly not aimed at you we just put too much stock in numbers sometimes. I like Rogers tests but I like tests that Fred and myself tend to do. Those GM tests we all did really are some of the best threads created on each of those lenses. I think they give a full circle picture of what a lens can produce. I keep coming back to the same dang comment months later they just render incredibly well. I'm counting on this lens rocking the house in that area. Honestly if I want a absolutely perfectly correct image 35mm is not it. I would go get another medium format back stick it on a tech cam and a 8 thousand dollar Rodenstock lens. Now that's technically perfect but honestly has no mojo. I want mojo, look, bokeh, 3D , pop and sexy as all get out images. That's the lenses we want, well at least that's what I want. But again I'm a photographer, artist type shooter not a engineer , scientist or mathematics professor looking for technically correct images. I want ART

virtualrain wrote:
That's what Roger suggested in the article. However, if that's the case, why does it dip with this particular lens and not others?

Does this mean other lenses are also stronger mid-field than Roger's charts would suggest?

I'm often shooting using rule of thirds with my 50... So it's helpful to get an accurate picture of the relative differences in performance between the lenses in this area of the frame. As it stands, this is not a strength of this new lens, but maybe I'm reading more into it than I should be. Maybe both this and the FE 55
...Show more



Jul 18, 2016 at 03:54 PM
realVivek
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


bjornthun wrote:
Is it posdible to meassure the thickness of the gover glass through some refraction test, without removing it.


I have measured the stack (includingbthe cover glass) of the A7 and it is 2.5mm. Zeiss said it is 2.5mm as well- the measure they used while designing the Loxia lenses.



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:04 PM
Lucinda
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


GMPhotography wrote:
I want mojo, look, bokeh, 3D , pop and sexy as all get out images. That's the lenses we want, well at least that's what I want. But again I'm a photographer, artist type shooter not a engineer , scientist or mathematics professor looking for technically correct images. I want ART





That's right daddy-o, and I think I can make some art with this Sexy 50, the Kitty is in!



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:15 PM
Holger
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
The MTF graph for this lens shows that at infinity distance and wide-open (f/1.4), this lens is very sharp (probably the sharpest 50mm to date) at the center area. It's also just as good as the best 50mm lenses 1/3 from the center and at the edges. The Optical Field test shows the lens is also very flat field.


At least the graph shows it is _not_ as good off center compared to the Otus and Sigma Art. The Sony MTF drops to 0.2 minimum, 0.3 when averaging tangential and sagittal lines, the Otus goes to almost 0.5 there. Whether we can see that difference in real life images is another question. But then the center sharpness difference is probably not that important, too.



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:24 PM
Matt Grum
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


AGeoJO wrote:
Sharper than the Otus? Wow!


Within a 5mm radius from the centre of the frame...



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:28 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


I think I was the one who brought up the mid zone dip. I wish now I would not have done so, some seem to have given it way too much weight. Yes, it is there in the MTFs, but it is less extreme than some awfully good lenses (i.e., the Leica M 50 f/1.4 ASPH) for which it is hardly noticeably in practice. I don't think it is going to be a serious issue for this lens at all. IMO, it is really only an issue when comparing this lens to the Otus. The FE 50 f/1.4 has about as much of a sharpness advantage over the Otus in the centre as the Otus has over the FE 50 f/1.4 in the mid zone. Their sharpness patterns are about equal, but different. That was all I was trying to say. My comment was really meant to note that as exciting as this lens is, there are still some ways that the Otus will outperform it (e.g., corrections for aberrations and mid zone sharpness).

Now what does the mid zone dip mean? My guess is you will have to very closely pixel peep to see it at f/1.4 and you won't even be able to see it with such peeping at f/2. IMO, not a serious issue at all. So, if we keep the strengths in perspective, then we should note that it is not sharper than all other 50s in all ways, but if we keep the weaknesses in perspective then we should note that even the mid zone dip is unlikely to create any serious problems. That's how I see it anyway.

Now, when people actually get the lens in their hands (thank you Fred for offering to do tests, you do a fantastic job) we will learn a lot more about what I see as the more important stuff. How does the lens perform at infinity, at medium distances, and close up? How is the bokeh at middle distances, close up, at large distances? How about wide open and stopped down a fair bit? How is the coma performance, wide open and how does it clear up stopped down? How about the bokeh fringing, how bad is it wide open and how far does the lens need to be stopped down for it to clear up? How is the contrast wide open; are there still some spherical aberrations? What about astigmatism in the corners; how it is wide open and then stopped down? All these things matter to me at least as much as sharpness and it will take more than just one review to address them (even as good as Fred's reviews are he doesn't try to address all these issues). So, it is early and the lens looks great, but let's try to keep both the positives (there is a good chance the Otus will beat it in at least some ways) and the negatives (that mid zone dip probably is a small issue at most) in perspective.

Edited on Jul 18, 2016 at 07:36 PM · View previous versions



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:32 PM
low325
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


wow, sharper than MY otus, wth


Jul 18, 2016 at 04:40 PM
Matt Grum
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


hiepphotog wrote:
Any dip would be likely due to field curvature, so focus adjustment would take care of that for and shallow DOF shot.


Except this lens doesn't have any field curvature

realVivek wrote:
I have measured the stack (includingbthe cover glass) of the A7 and it is 2.5mm. Zeiss said it is 2.5mm as well- the measure they used while designing the Loxia lenses.


Is that the physical thickness or the optical thickness?



Jul 18, 2016 at 04:59 PM
Alexluu627
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


I'll wait till there's more reviews and people on this forum to get their hands on before I jump the bandwagon.

I will always choose rendering over sharpness any day.



Jul 18, 2016 at 05:12 PM
DavidBM
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


arduluth wrote:
I'm not "protesting" the Zeiss badge. Zeiss has relatively little involvement with the Sony Zeiss lenses. They don't design the lens so much as "approve" Sony's design and "support" Sony through the design process. There's also T* and Zeiss QA testing equipment used. There's been enough written about this, including by Zeiss themselves, we don't really need to rehash it here.

The FE 55mm f/1.8 was designed by Naoki Miyagawa, a Sony engineer. There's an interesting interview with here. My point is simply that someday Sony may not need to bank on the belief that Zony lenses have some magical
...Show more

What's going on here, I think, is something interesting about Japanese culture. There's a reverence for all things German in Japan that is stronger than anywhere else in the world. In the optical case it's that respect for the master thing - the Japanese learned optics from the Germans, and started off copying German designs. So Zeiss is the revered master. Now they have met or exceeded the master in skill, by their lights it would be bad form to admit it - or something like that. Commercially it boils down to the Zeiss (or Leica) badge being worth more in the Japanese market Than elsewhere.



Jul 18, 2016 at 05:32 PM
DavidBM
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think I was the one who brought up the mid zone dip. I wish now I would not have done so, some seem to have given it way too much weight. Yes, it is there in the MTFs, but it is less extreme than some awfully good lenses (i.e., the Leica M 50 f/1.4) for which it is hardly noticeably in practice. I don't think it is going to be a serious issue for this lens at all. IMO, it is really only an issue when comparing this lens to the Otus. The FE 50 f/1.4 has about
...Show more

Rogers article says the mid zone dip may be an artifact of their testing rig having not quite the right stack thickness...

EDIT. Oops I see many others have pointed out this possibility, still I won't delete as reading above I can see I wasn't the only one not to have got to those posts so it bears saying again...

Edited on Jul 18, 2016 at 05:41 PM · View previous versions



Jul 18, 2016 at 05:34 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Alexluu627 wrote:
I will always choose rendering over sharpness any day.


Sharpness is it's own rendering. At least at this level.



Jul 18, 2016 at 05:40 PM
realVivek
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Matt Grum wrote:
Is that the physical thickness or the optical thickness?


Physical thickness (what everyone refers to, in general)

The optical thickness is an obfuscating term introduced when ridiculous numbers from unreliable collections were employed in a discussion. Also note that the optical thickness has some assumptions to calculate and arrive at the numbers.



Jul 18, 2016 at 05:42 PM
mogul
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


It is a good lens folks, Sony builds good lens, Canon also builds good lenses, Sigma and Tamron also have fine products and the long time optical king (Nikon) is having some hiccups. That is the state of optical right now. Samyang is waiting in the wings with some Chinese outfits. How will the Euro companies respond with a cost effective product.


Jul 18, 2016 at 05:52 PM
realVivek
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Holger wrote:
Looks to be a very nice lens at a high price (1800Euros).


Any price drop, even a 100 drop, is welcome!

Could you post a link where this lens is offered for only 1800? Thanks!



Jul 18, 2016 at 06:00 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


DavidBM wrote:
Rogers article says the mid zone dip may be an artifact of their testing rig having not quite the right stack thickness...

EDIT. Oops I see many others have pointed out this possibility, still I won't delete as reading above I can see I wasn't the only one not to have got to those posts so it bears saying again...


I think Roger is testing with a 2mm glass cover and it seems to be working great so far. Perhaps the magic number is 2.5mm (or 2.3mm) but we don't know for sure if that would improve things noticeably. He was able to test with 1mm and 3mm glass covers and the MTF looked worse at these thicknesses.

Sony's own 'computerized' MTF shows the same tangential line dip at mid-field (look at the blue lines showing 40 line pairs/mm).
It's not as deep when compared to LensRentals but it's there at f/1.4. As someone wrote, this may not even show up in real world images, especially when stopping down at little bit.

Whenever the lens is in my hands, I will compare it to the other native lenses. Too bad I don't have an OTUS.

Resolution apart, I'm mostly interested in how the lens renders as I already shoot with the excellent high IQ 55/1.8.




Left (Sony f/1.4 MTF), Right (LensRentals f/1.4 MTF)




Jul 18, 2016 at 06:10 PM
Brandon Dube
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


realVivek wrote:
Physical thickness (what everyone refers to, in general)

The optical thickness is an obfuscating term introduced when ridiculous numbers from unreliable collections were employed in a discussion. Also note that the optical thickness has some assumptions to calculate and arrive at the numbers.


The optical thickness is not so complicated and is what matters in terms of the effect of the coverglass on the performance of the lens. It is simply the physical thickness multiplied by the refractive index. The coverglass is typically made of a material very similar to N-K5 glass or its equivalents from Ohara or Hoya. Regardless, you can safely multiply the physical thickness by about 1.47 to arrive at the optical thickness.



Jul 18, 2016 at 06:27 PM
realVivek
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Brandon Dube wrote:
The optical thickness is not so complicated and is what matters in terms of the effect of the coverglass on the performance of the lens. It is simply the physical thickness multiplied by the refractive index. The coverglass is typically made of a material very similar to N-K5 glass or its equivalents from Ohara or Hoya. Regardless, you can safely multiply the physical thickness by about 1.47 to arrive at the optical thickness.



You basically expanded on the assumptions I referred to. The cover glass material is different than that of the stack which is an epoxied stack of two different materials. So, there are 4 materials involved (including the epoxy).

From the optical transmission of the cover glass, I would conclude that it is not N-K5 or its equivalent.

As i mentioned earlier, the A7 sensor is only $250. It is easy to verify everything.



Jul 18, 2016 at 06:46 PM
Holger
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


realVivek wrote:
Any price drop, even a 100 drop, is welcome!

Could you post a link where this lens is offered for only 1800? Thanks!


https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/Sony-SEL-50mm/1-4-Zeiss-Planar/SONSEL50F14Z



Jul 18, 2016 at 06:50 PM
charles.K
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


The FE 50/1.4 looks to be a superb lens. Sharper than the Otus ... quite amazing!

The rendering, look and smoothness from the RAW files I have played with is all there and more. Look wise it appears to be that of the M50 Lux Asph cross with the M 50 Cron Pre Asph. If this means having the FE 50/1.4 that is about the same size/weight as the 50L with MB IV adapter, I am thrilled.

If this the FE 50/1.4 truly specs out as we expect, kudos to Sony for producing a great 50mm.




Jul 18, 2016 at 07:11 PM
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