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Archive 2016 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!

  
 
Matt Grum
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Beni wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the other point DPReview brings up about these new lenses forcing focus stopped down in any mode thereby making them practically unusable in the studio whatsoever and less accurate/slower everywhere else?


Really? Even with setting effect "off"? (that would imply the lens is wide open and the iris actually closes to focus).

Or do dpreview simply not know you can disable stopped down focussing by turning setting effect off?



edit just tested my A7RII + 55mm f/1.8 and it focusses wide open all the time, even with setting effect on!




Jul 21, 2016 at 11:49 AM
chrisgibbs
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Matt Grum wrote:
Really? Even with setting effect "off"? (that would imply the lens is wide open and the iris actually closes to focus).

Or do dpreview simply not know you can disable stopped down focussing by turning setting effect off?

edit just tested my A7RII + 55mm f/1.8 and it focusses wide open all the time, even with setting effect on!




Check it out with the 85GM.



Jul 21, 2016 at 11:54 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


That's how both GM lenses work. They don't fully open the iris during focus like the 55/1.8 does regardless of the camera setting. Perhaps they do only in low light. I will test.
How is it with the 35/1.4 ZA?



Jul 21, 2016 at 12:03 PM
chrisgibbs
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's how both GM lenses work. The don't open the iris during focus like the 55/1.8 does regardless of the camera setting. Perhaps they do only in low light. I will test.
How is it with the 35/1.4 ZA?


I had a thought that it may be the manual aperture ring on the 85GM, but as the 24-70GM does the same, so that's out.

There have been many discussions about that little 1-2-3 focussing action with lens' like the FE 1.8/55 too, I wonder what's going on as the IRIS opens, closes slightly and then some more during focus acquisition?



Jul 21, 2016 at 12:13 PM
ecarlino
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
How is it with the 35/1.4 ZA?


on the FE 35 / 1.4,
if i set the aperture to f/5.6 and press the shutter half way (it begins to acquire focus w/ PDAF) it opens up, then a moment later it stops down (presumably for the CDAF to fine-tune things)

interestingly, w/ AF-C and tracking-on, if i move around to various other subject distances, it never opens up again.

Rishi wrote an article on a7r2 autofocus that i bookmarked but haven't read in a while so i forget if this was the result of him just trying various lenses/settings out or if someone from Sony actually told him how things worked, i think he touches on whether or why it focuses wide_open or stopped down, so if this is a concern for you, this will be of interest:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6884391759/sony-alpha-7r-ii-can-match-or-beat-dslr-low-light-af-performance



Jul 21, 2016 at 12:40 PM
chrisgibbs
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


ecarlino wrote:
on the FE 35 / 1.4,
if i set the aperture to f/5.6 and press the shutter half way (it begins to acquire focus w/ PDAF) it opens up, then a moment later it stops down (presumably for the CDAF to fine-tune things)

interestingly, w/ AF-C and tracking-on, if i move around to various other subject distances, it never opens up again.

Rishi wrote an article on a7r2 autofocus that i bookmarked but haven't read in a while so i forget if this was the result of him just trying various lenses/settings out or if someone from Sony actually told him how things
...Show more

Looks like Sony's way of dealing with dreaded focus-shift. Focus-shift made the Canon 50L on the 5D3 shot @f/2 basically no-go.

EDIT: So this begs the question. Is the FE 1.8/55 free of focus-shift issues, where the GM's aren't?



Jul 21, 2016 at 12:49 PM
GMPhotography
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


I have not run into any focus creep with either GM.


Jul 21, 2016 at 12:54 PM
arduluth
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's how both GM lenses work. The don't open the iris during focus like the 55/1.8 does regardless of the camera setting.
How is it with the 35/1.4 ZA?


Just curious if the light was low when you noticed that the 55mm open up during focusing?

With my Sony lenses (FE 28/2, E 16/2.8, E 35/1.8), the pattern I've noticed if you have Setting Effect On is that the aperture does*not* open up during focusing if the light is sufficient. However, if the light is lower the camera will open up for focusing and the nstop down again.



Jul 21, 2016 at 01:00 PM
GMPhotography
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


What I think happens is it will open up if the light gets lower to maintain the visual gain on the EVF. So its trying to maintain a certain level on the EVF so if it has too it will open up to get to those levels. This was what i think Sony was going for when designing some of these lenses and also in the process is lower focus creep at the same time. Some view it as bad but I have not run into where it actually affected me. But don't quote me


Jul 21, 2016 at 01:19 PM
virtualrain
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Apparently the Batis 85 has focus shift, but it still opens up to focus, and I haven't actually observed any mis-focused shots with it.

The other interesting observation is that Setting Effect On/Off only seems to have an effect in low light and determines whether the aperture is stopped down during framing. The process for AF and shooting is... open up, focus, stop down, fire. With Setting Effect Off, the first step is not necessary because the lens is already wide-open. In bright light, the Setting Effect On/Off has no effect... the lens is stopped down at all times except to focus when it opens up.

It seems that Setting Effect with the Batis only affects the live display, not the focus behaviour.

Edited on Jul 21, 2016 at 01:44 PM · View previous versions



Jul 21, 2016 at 01:38 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


GMPhotography wrote:
What I think happens is it will open up if the light gets lower to maintain the visual gain on the EVF. So its trying to maintain a certain level on the EVF so if it has too it will open up to get to those levels. This was what i think Sony was going for when designing some of these lenses and also in the process is lower focus creep at the same time. Some view it as bad but I have not run into where it actually affected me. But don't quote me


That seems to be correct Guy.
I just tested the 85 GM and its mechanism for focus acquisition depends on the light level.
During focus acquisition in low light, the lens tries to stay as close possible to the current aperture setting instead of fully opening the iris. It seems to open the iris about 1-stop from a given aperture.

With the 55/1.8, it always opens the iris to about f/2 regardless of the aperture setting or light level.

It's definitely not consistent and depends on the lens used.



Jul 21, 2016 at 01:42 PM
Matt Grum
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


chrisgibbs wrote:
Looks like Sony's way of dealing with dreaded focus-shift. Focus-shift made the Canon 50L on the 5D3 shot @f/2 basically no-go.

EDIT: So this begs the question. Is the FE 1.8/55 free of focus-shift issues, where the GM's aren't?


Not sure I believe focus shift is the reason. I can't imagine the new 50mm f/1.4 has more spherical aberration than the 55mm. And focus shift should not be a problem at f/11! I think there's some other technical reason / oversight behind this behaviour.

arduluth wrote:
Just curious if the light was low when you noticed that the 55mm open up during focusing?

With my Sony lenses (FE 28/2, E 16/2.8, E 35/1.8), the pattern I've noticed if you have Setting Effect On is that the aperture does*not* open up during focusing if the light is sufficient. However, if the light is lower the camera will open up for focusing and the nstop down again.


I think it depends on the camera, the A7R (with setting effect on) would only open the aperture to focus a little bit in extreme low light. The A7RII will open up even in good light - presumably to make use of phase detect AF.

GMPhotography wrote:
Some view it as bad but I have not run into where it actually affected me.


From what I've read here is seems like the new GM lenses + 50 f/1.4ZA are always at the shooting aperture regardless of "setting effect". If that is the case then it makes these lenses pretty much unusable when shooting with strobes, if you have the body set to f/8 or f/11 indoors you're going to get a very slow, jerky, noisy viewfinder image.

That is really bad for furthering the idea that mirrorless bodies are ready for professional use, as optical viewfinders don't have this problem at all.

Edited on Apr 11, 2017 at 04:06 AM · View previous versions



Jul 22, 2016 at 08:15 AM
GMPhotography
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Well I shot in the studio 2 weeks ago for 2 days and none of that happened. Shooting at F8 but I do turn the setting effect off to get as much gain as I can. You do have to work in a studio with some light though so the lens can focus to begin with but unusable is not a good description.


Jul 22, 2016 at 08:25 AM
chrisgibbs
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


I'd like a proper explanation from one of our Sony Artisan's about what is actually going on here, and more importantly why - less propaganda marketing, and more interaction with us Sony plebs please. Having said that, like Guy states, the kit is usable in both studio and field, and I'll take *this implementation over the OVF's known limitations (read: basically useless with a lens like the 50L) and less than ideal for anything faster than f/2.8 where accurate & repeatable focus acquisition is concerned.


Jul 22, 2016 at 09:01 AM
GMPhotography
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Chris I shake my head sometimes when comments are like this are made and Im out here proving most of this stuff wrong and not by design but just working with the system. Im not holding a magic wand to make it work either. Matt not directed at you at all but a general comment WTF are people that lazy they can't get a system to work or that incompetent and not realize it takes light levels to actually focus to begin with. Seriously I am kind of baffled by a lot of this. Folks if the system did not work it be in the garbage can its really that simple. This is about making money and if the tools are not cutting the mustard , Ill go buy something else.


Jul 22, 2016 at 09:11 AM
ecarlino
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


chrisgibbs wrote:
I'd like a proper explanation from one of our Sony Artisan's about what is actually going on here, and more importantly why - less propaganda marketing


not trying to be too sarcastic, but doesn't "Sony Artisan" = "propaganda marketing" ?



Jul 22, 2016 at 09:27 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


In my view, it would be ideal to have all native lenses focus nearly wide open like the 55/1.8 does under any light condition. The GMs and many other FE lenses 'do' open the iris in very low light to a certain degree relative to the set aperture but sometimes it's not enough. This behavior 'does' slow down focus acquisition in low light but I never had issues nailing focus even with EyeAF. I'm sure Sony engineers have a good reason for some lenses to behave this way.


Jul 22, 2016 at 09:54 AM
GMPhotography
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Im sorry for my rant too folks, it just is getting old when I hear we can't duo this or that when with a little effort most is possible. Believe me I would not be shooting this system with my neck on the line, i have some very high profile clients and i can't take risks. If a system is not up to the task a lot of Sony shooters would be looking elsewhere.


Jul 22, 2016 at 10:02 AM
snapsy
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


Having AF work vs it working optimally is worthy of debate and discussion. I can't imagine that focusing with 1/16 of the light reaching the sensor/PDAF points is an optimal situation (difference between focusing at f/2 vs f/8).


Jul 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM
chrisgibbs
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!


ecarlino wrote:
not trying to be too sarcastic, but doesn't "Sony Artisan" = "propaganda marketing" ?


If they want proper marketing, pay the price and hire a proper marketing firm. If they want proper image-makers, pay the price and hire/sponsor some proper photographers like everyone else does. If they want sub-par web marketeers, carry on doing what they're doing and save paying anything.

Those Sony sponsored events are cringeworthy, they're often like camera-club outings where all the bad images get blamed on "faulty kit" and we know who the worst offenders are. That just doesn't help Sony at all, its more often fuel for the fire IMO.



Jul 22, 2016 at 10:13 AM
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