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Archive 2016 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Ron made this post at RFF, regarding LTM vs latest M version:

"...when the new version was announced, IIRC, Tom A here on the forum stated it was the same optical formula. Meanwhile, Cameraquest states there is a slight difference in the formula. They have the block digram for the old one and it indicates the rear element is aspherical on both surfaces, whereas Cosina's block diagram for the current lens indicates a single aspherical surface. Otherwise all the other elements look the same, etc. I recall an early side by side test, either here or on LUF, revealed that the new lens had different coatings and appeared to handle backlighting somewhat better, but otherwise performed similarly to the LTM version. A difference of note is the 90cm minimum focusing distance for the LTM, vs. 70cm for the current version.

I have the LTM version and it's a decent lens, but not necessarily a technical marvel, or one with particularly unique character. I believe it's sharper centrally and wide open than my 50 Lux ASPH, but doesn't have as good across-frame performance. It has a tendency for purple fringing at wider apertures in high contrast transition areas. I'm not sure how typical my LTM version is, but the focusing ring has a very dampened and somewhat slow feel to it. Rendering/character seems to be rather anonymous. Background blur is the closest I have tried to the Lux ASPH with other 'f/1.4' lenses, but not quite as gaussian. Contrast and saturation seems to be moderate."

So, all CV 50/1.5s since the Cosina LTM came out are ASPH. The formula MAY be slightly tweaked for the M and coatings are updated, but the lenses are extremely close according to most accounts. I would not doubt the newer version is better

On eBay I see the LTMs going for around 370 and the the M version for 430ish.

The ability to focus at .7 instead of .9 might be worth that money to some of us

Edited on Oct 11, 2016 at 12:20 AM · View previous versions

Oct 11, 2016 at 12:07 AM

JaKo
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Charlie, you hold on to your Nokt 50 version as it's unique as it gets
Don't modify it, tweak it; the old Nokton is a smooth wrapper. You wanna new, modern look, get a Lux 50 if you really crave for

Oct 11, 2016 at 12:19 AM

uhoh7
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

JaKo wrote:
Charlie, you hold on to your Nokt 50 version as it's unique as it gets
Don't modify it, tweak it; the old Nokton is a smooth wrapper. You wanna new, modern look, get a Lux 50 if you really crave for

I wish it was mine

It has a ton of fungus

I saw it on a Leica III among the old cameras a local shop has on the wall and borrowed it. Unfortunately the owner knows what it is

Someday I'll get a Lux ASPH. But I've come to greatly appreciate the v4 Cron.

If it gets dark I use the CV 50/1.1 or Sonnetar....

Oct 11, 2016 at 12:21 AM

flash
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7 wrote:
Oh really?

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8651/30136445412_70900f70b5_z.jpg
1951 50/1.5 by unoh7, on Flickr

https://c6.staticflickr.com/3/2867/11143491405_bbf48b8ccf_z.jpg
1950ish Voigtlander 50/1.5 original by unoh7, on Flickr

A clean LTM version will bring 2k+

As to the new one: extremely popular, for good reason as shown in the thread. Rendering is near identical to the 50 Lux pre-asph, but the CV is slightly sharper. Puts compared both to the 50 APSH Lux and wrote a interesting piece on the three. The ASPH, according to him, was as sharp across the frame WO as the pre-asph lens at 5.6. The pre-asph lens survived a very long time in the Leica line, though, and Puts...Show more →

That lens is a direct relative of the Prominent. Lovely.

I was referring to the Cosina/Voigtlander LTM which is available for a few hundred.

Gordon

Oct 11, 2016 at 01:36 AM

sebboh
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

flash wrote:
There's an old and rare CV 50mm 1.5 Prominent. That commands very high prices. However it's not really related to the 50mm 1.5 in LTM or M mounts that we're talking about.

Gordon

uhoh7 wrote:
Oh really?

yes really. it's styled after it but the optical design and performance are not particularly close.

uhoh7 wrote:
As to the new one: extremely popular, for good reason as shown in the thread. Rendering is near identical to the 50 Lux pre-asph, but the CV is slightly sharper.

hogwash, the modern ltm and new m-mount cv 50/1.5 render nothing like the old lux pre-asph. anybody who says otherwise has either not shot with one of the mentioned lenses or never shot any other 50mm ever in their life (imho of course).

Oct 11, 2016 at 01:37 AM

flash
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7 wrote:
So, all CV 50/1.5s since the Cosina LTM came out are ASPH. The formula MAY be slightly tweaked for the M and coatings are updated, but the lenses are extremely close according to most accounts. I would not doubt the newer version is better

On eBay I see the LTMs going for around 370 and the the M version for 430ish.

The ability to focus at .7 instead of .9 might be worth that money to some of us

I have a copy of the CV LTM that I've almost worn out, just like I did to Dark Side of The Moon on Vinyl. The M version is definitely better. Obvious. I must have seen the same reports as you and took a while to check out the newer version. In some ways i prefer it to the current 'lux and I'm keeping my CV and selling my 'Lux.

Gordon

Oct 11, 2016 at 01:40 AM

sebboh
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

flash wrote:
In some ways i prefer it to the current 'lux and I'm keeping my CV and selling my 'Lux.

Gordon

in what ways out of curiosity?

Oct 11, 2016 at 01:43 AM

gyoung143
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7 wrote:
Oh really?

As to the new one: extremely popular, for good reason as shown in the thread. Rendering is near identical to the 50 Lux pre-asph, but the CV is slightly sharper. Puts compared both to the 50 APSH Lux and wrote a interesting piece on the three. The ASPH, according to him, was as sharp across the frame WO as the pre-asph lens at 5.6. The pre-asph lens survived a very long time in the Leica line, though, and Puts...Show more →

A company I worked for in the 60s had a Prominent with that lens, used by research men to 'nick' snapshots off the screen at presentations (!) by 'rivals'. I remember trying it and not being particularly impressed with it compared to the Pentax 55mm f/2 I had at the time.

Gerry

Oct 11, 2016 at 04:56 AM

uhoh7
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

sebboh wrote:
the modern ltm and new m-mount cv 50/1.5 render nothing like the old lux pre-asph. anybody who says otherwise has either not shot with one of the mentioned lenses or never shot any other 50mm ever in their life (imho of course).

Cosina and Leica by unoh7, on Flickr

Looking about for contrasts, I find some interesting stuff:

"Truth be told, the previous (ie. pre ASPH) Summilux wasn't exactly the most popular of Leica's 50mm lenses.

Available light shooters prefered the ƒ1.0 Noctilux; bokeh lovers prefered the 75mm Summilux-M or Noctilux; MTF and sharpness junkies always plumbed for the 50mm Summicron-M; whilst the budget-conscious tended to go for the cheaper Voigtländer Nokton....

What does appear to upset some people however is that even if the Nokton is sharper and suffers from less vignetting when wide open, the image bokeh appears to be much "harsher" than that of the Summilux."

http://leica.nemeng.com/013b.shtml

Oct 11, 2016 at 10:48 AM

sebboh
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7 wrote:

Nothing like it huh? Another widespread belief repeated by many users that's a myth I guess- or just a mistaken impression by me. I had a pre-asph Lux but traded it for the cron v4 before I went to full frame. I did not shoot it enough to really appreciate the lens.

How would you contrast the lenses?

i don't know if i'd say there is nothing like it, but the two lenses are not alike at all. the cv voigtlander is quite sharp and contrasty wide open and looks much more like the lux asph than any other rangefinder lens i'm familiar with (the major difference being that the voigtlander sacrifices the corners more while the lux asph sacrifices the midzone more and this impacts their overall draw a bit). the lux pre-asph is a classic mandler looking lens that has massive glow wide open that takes a fair bit of stopping down to avoid. the pre-asph also has a yuge midzone dip and will produce serious veiling in strong backlighting while the cv can be shot amazingly well pretty much straight into the sun.

edit: the lux pre-asph has a gentler transition to out of focus, not sure i'd say it has smoother bokeh.

Oct 11, 2016 at 12:48 PM

flash
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

sebboh wrote:
in what ways out of curiosity?

I'm obviously speaking for my lenses only....

My first "Leica" 50 was the CV50mm 1.5 LTM. I still have it. Of course I wanted a Summilux. But at the time there was a world wide shortage of M lenses (early M9 era) and I didn't have the money anyway. I shot the shit out of that thing. I love that lens. Except for the purple fringing.

When I could get hold of a Summilux I did. It's a great lens. But, I wondered why I wasn't completely happy with it. "the best standard lens in the world", and all that. It's certainly sharp. It renders nicely and all. So I started looking at lenses I really love. The 85L. ZA 50, 85 and 135. I adore the CV 75mm 1.8M Color Heliar. Then I got hold of the new Nokton and it all made sense.

I like primes that have a bit less contrast and smooth transitions when they're wide open. The new Karbe Leica lenses are just a tad on the aggressive side, for me. I also regret not keeping my 90mm Summarit for the same reason. A bit sharper than the Mandler lenses but less aggressive than the fast Karbe lenses. Sure I lose a bit of the "3D pop" that some of the new lenses have in abundance. And certainly sometimes the 'lux makes images that just stop me in my tracks. They're the one in lower contrast situations or where I have control over the light. The Nokton holds that look in harsher light than the 'lux.

At landscape apertures I do want tons of bite. Both lenses are great there. It's just the first two stops.

And *my* copy of the CV 50 1.5M is perfect *for me* mechanically. I prefer the focus ring to a tab. My lens is weighted perfectly for me where my 'lux is a bit to easy to overshoot focus. The PF is much better than the LTM. It's noticeably lighter. I prefer the lens cap (silly, I know). It's not quite as sharp in the centre (by a whisker) but seems a bit more consistent (no mid zone dip) than the Leica.

It was the Nokton that taught me that I actually have a preference in lens design beyond pure sharpness. It let me define what I like for the first time although I think I knew I liked lenses like this for years but didn't know why. It taught me that new expensive lenses weren't necessarily *better*, for me. It taught me that I'd looked critically at enough of my own images to be able to identify such small nuances in lenses. I didn't know I could do that.

It also taught me that my preferences are not universal and I need to actually use a lens to see if I like it.

Gordon

Oct 11, 2016 at 03:17 PM

robgo2
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

uhoh7 wrote:
Oh really?

But on unmodified Sony bodies CV 50/1.5 vs 50 Lux ASPH is no contest at all. The thick Sony sensor cover hates the ASPH.

But the CV Nokton 50/1.5 is also an aspherical lens. The only side effect that I have seen (on the web, not in my own photos) is faint onion rings in bokeh balls. I suspect that they are present on Leica as well as Sony cameras. Some folks are very touchy about onion rings, others consider them a minor annoyance.

Rob

Oct 11, 2016 at 05:32 PM

uhoh7
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Hi Rob,

It sounds like I said the Sony's hate ASPH in general, but I was referring to the performance of the Leica 50/1.4 ASPH only, which has very strange performance on the stock sensors. Sry for any confusion.

I did not notice that from the CV 50 (ASPH too), though I have not looked super close at samples. I remember when we first got samples with the Leica lens, before the cameras were released, and there was much discussion

Anyway, the Nokton as displayed in this thread looks to really deserve it's popularity. I stand corrected on it's similarity to the pre-ASPH 50 lux. TY Derek

Oct 12, 2016 at 09:40 AM

Chris Cheng
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Got my hands on a chrome VM 50 1.5, I have to say so far I like it. Highlight and shadow transition is just smooth. Booked has a bit of outline at maximum aperture. Its style is really quite different compared to my FE 55.

Coming from dSLR and mirrorless, I do suddenly realise 0.7m minimum focus distance is rather long...now I may need to get a close focus adapter

DSC08630 edit by He Cheng, on Flickr

Oct 16, 2016 at 04:56 AM

lenticular11
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

A couple from my 50 f1.5 LTM version, taken yesterday, both on M9.

This one at f2

National Library of Australia foyer by David M, on Flickr

This one was wide-open. I estimated the distance at 5m, preset the focus, propped up the camera on our table by placing the strap under the body pf my half-case and used delayed shutter. Lots of PP required to deal with the strong directional lighting.

National Library of Australia cafe by David M, on Flickr

Oct 17, 2016 at 09:59 PM

Chris Cheng
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

VM 50 1.5

DSC08624 edit by He Cheng, on Flickr

Nov 06, 2016 at 12:24 AM

bluloo
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Due to a listing error, I just found out that the M-mount Nokton 50mm F.1.5, that I ordered is an LTM mount.

The adapter route seems easy-peesy (several L39 -> M options), so I told the vendor to ship the lens.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered issues using the LTM version of the 50mm Nokton on a Sony A7RII.

Nov 29, 2016 at 02:14 PM

robgo2
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

bluloo wrote:
Due to a listing error, I just found out that the M-mount Nokton 50mm F.1.5, that I ordered is an LTM mount.

The adapter route seems easy-peesy (several L39 -> M options), so I told the vendor to ship the lens.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered issues using the LTM version of the 50mm Nokton on a Sony A7RII.

I believe that the VM version has different coatings, although the optical formula is the same.

Nov 29, 2016 at 03:55 PM

bluloo
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Thanks. Hopefully, the IQ isn't significantly impacted on the A7RII

Nov 29, 2016 at 04:04 PM

robgo2
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton ASPH

Chris Cheng wrote:
Got my hands on a chrome VM 50 1.5, I have to say so far I like it. Highlight and shadow transition is just smooth. Booked has a bit of outline at maximum aperture. Its style is really quite different compared to my FE 55.

Coming from dSLR and mirrorless, I do suddenly realise 0.7m minimum focus distance is rather long...now I may need to get a close focus adapter

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5812/29725055453_64f6bd1be4_b.jpg
DSC08630 edit by He Cheng, on Flickr

A definite "yes" on the close focus adapter. Either the Voigt or Hawk adapter would be my recommendation.

Rob

Nov 29, 2016 at 04:04 PM

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