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Archive 2016 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?

  
 
atracksler
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Looking at adding a tilt/shift lens for architectural shooting to my arsenal.

I know about the Canon 35mm FD TS Lens.

Any other contenders for bang for the buck tilting and shifting?

Opinions and samples greatly appreciated...



Jun 27, 2016 at 03:28 PM
notherenow
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Native E mount.

24mm 3.5 Samyang
15mm f4 Laowa (shift only and only in APSC mode though it is a full frame lens) maybe not for architecture.

Adapted
Just about all of them.
The Canon TS-Es are popular as they adapt very well to E mount. Some people have some issues with reflections with some adapters and cameras.
I love the 17mm f4 l Canon and A7s.

The Canon TS-E's are pricey but you get what you pay for.
There are also tilt shift adapters for larger format lenses.



Jun 27, 2016 at 03:49 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Welcome to the world of tilt and shift digital!

Get a Canon TS-E with adapter.

I recommend the 24mm as the best all around choice. The old FD 35 is nice, but can't really compete with the newer lenses. I consider it fits right in between the new lenses and shift adapter mounted 645 lenses (only go to 35mm in practical focal lengths).

45 TS-E is a great bargain in the range you are looking at, and better IQ than the old TS 35mm.



Jun 27, 2016 at 05:38 PM
atracksler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Any advantages for using something like the mamiya 645 bellows? I have a bunch of 645 lenses for my film side....


Jun 28, 2016 at 09:24 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Optically, the 645 lenses are not equal to the DSLR T/S lenses, except economically, if you own the lenses already and don't need any wider lens than 35mm. I bought a simple Kipon Shift adapter for Mamiya 645 to Sony E mount from Adorama on sale a while back for around $180. Works great -- very simple mechanism. Used it with M645 35mm, 45mm, 55mm, and also have the 80 macro and 150/3.5 not tried yet. I leave it mounted on the 35mm as a simple adapter, shifting when needed -- it's small and light.


Jun 29, 2016 at 12:27 AM
mhespenheide
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I would clarify Gunzorro's statements about the 645 lenses being "not equal" to the DSLR T/S lenses. I'm using the Mirex T/S adapter (paired with an LA-EA3 and an a7r -- live view helps immensely) and the Mamiya 645 lenses give very good results. They're not quite at the level of the Canon 24 v.2, but that's a sterling performer. I'd say they're as good as what I've seen from the Canon 24 v.1 tilt/shift lens.

Here's a thread with more info on the optical quality of the Mamiya 645 lenses: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1431406/0

As I said in that thread, the color are a little more muted and the global contrast is a little lower than modern lenses, but both of those factors are relatively easily changed in post-production. I would say that if they're wide enough, they're going to be hard to beat for the money -- especially if you've already got them!



Jun 30, 2016 at 03:12 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


atracksler wrote:
Any advantages for using something like the mamiya 645 bellows? I have a bunch of 645 lenses for my film side....


I assume you mean the Auto-Bellows N, and not for architecture. It might be possible if you had a super-thin adapter on the camera mount side, but it's not particularly fun to use in the field. All the movement is controlled by tension screws, so fine movements are difficult. But it is my favorite macro rig.

I'd say the 24LvII is the best bang-for-the-buck in dedicated TSE lenses, as pricey as it is. Samyang looks to have the best budget lens with their 24. You'll want to stop it down to at least f/5.6 and baby the knobs, but it does what a budget lens should- gets you what you want with a little more effort on your part and a lot fewer refinements in the design compared to the brand name lenses.



Jun 30, 2016 at 09:24 PM
Audii-Dudii
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


As another option, you can modify a view camera to mount various 35 mm lenses and medium-format lenses on the front side and an A7 series body on the rear side, and turn every lens into a tilt-shift lens (assuming their image circles are large enough to provide room for movements, that is.)

In fact, I have recently done just that with my Contax N and Contax 645 lenses and a Toyo 45G view camera for about $20 in materials, excluding the cost of the lens adapters I salvaged the mounts from, the Fotodiox Tough Mount I installed on the A7R, as well as the Toyo 45G and various Toyo accessories I already on hand. (Even if you have none of these things on hand and start from scratch, you should be able to duplicate my results for less than $500, given the price of Toyo gear these days.)

Here's a photo of the front side:

http://www.canyonero.com/files/1469409088.jpg


And the rear side:

http://www.canyonero.com/files/1469409115.jpg


And to prove it works, here's the first photo I took with it (in the shade of my front door, because it was freakin' hot outside yesterday), using a Contax 17-35/f2.8 zoom at 17mm and f8, with approx. 4mm of front rise (which is about the limit due to the small size of the image circle at this focal length):

http://www.canyonero.com/files/1469409146.jpg


(As the magenta highlights and noisy shadows attest, my A7R is not working properly after it was modified by Kolari, despite allegedly having had its sensor replaced, so I am shopping for a replacement as I write this.)

Eventually, I plan to incorporate the guts from the Kipon smart adapter to provide control over the electronic aperture so I don't have to use the lenses in pre-set mode (I have it working on the bench, but will need to make a few mods to get it working on the camera) or possibly even the Fringer adapter, because it'll not only provide the same control over the apertures of the Contax 645 lenses, but make the autofocus mechanisms in both sets of lenses work as well. Imagine having an autofocusing view camera ... lol.



Jul 25, 2016 at 10:42 AM
mdemeyer
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Update on the 24mm Actar for the Cambo Actus. I did get one in but it showed very poor sharpness shifted so I returned it to Capture Integration to be checked. Steve confirmed that it was, in fact, weak compared to their demo unit and is checking another out before sending it to me.

Once I get a good copy in-hand I'll follow-up with some samples.

In the meantime, really positive about the Actus with my Rodenstock technical glass but, of course, those don't get into architectural-wide domain with the Actus.

Stay tuned...

Michael



Aug 06, 2016 at 12:17 AM
mdemeyer
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I finally got a replacement of the Actar in and had a chance to use it for some architectural shots up in Napa this past weekend. Here's a shot (nearly full-frame, very slightly cropped on the left side for symmetry) with the Actar on a Kolari thin filter modified Sony A7. (Note that the Actar, being a DSLR-derived lens, doesn't need to Kolari mod, but that's what I use.)

Del Dotto Winery, Actar 24mm @ F8

This is at 50% of original size for convenience, but it holds up fully at 100%.

It's certainly an F8-11 lens, but performs well in that range. This image had full rear fall, as I remember it.

Michael



Oct 10, 2016 at 11:06 PM
TakenWild
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I have the Canon TSE 17mm and TSE 24mm II. I also have the Mirex T/S adapter for Pentax 645. I have Pentax 645 and 67 lenses.

The Pentax 645 75mm 2.8 will give you 15mm of shift in both directions and hold very good sharpness on the A7R2 stopped down (I'd say as sharp as FE 70-200 f4).

The Pentax 645 35mm is very sharp unshifted and stopped down (as sharp as the TSE 24mm II). Image quality degrades after 8mm of shift in any direction (12-15mm even more so). I find it fine on my IR converted A7, so I'll keep it. Would love to try out their new HD 645 35mm 3.5, but at over $2000AU I think I'll pass.

The Pentax 645 55mm is very sharp stopped in in the centre (Close to Zony 55mm 1.8). Shifted it is very poor.

The 645 150mm and 200mm aren't worth using as shift -tilt lenses.

The Pentax 67 55mm f4 looks to be a winner, but heavy.



Oct 11, 2016 at 08:57 AM
engardeknave
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


You can also try the Fotodiox ef-nex shift adapter. I have used this with the Canon 11-24. It's a pain to use, but the results were good. If I recall correctly, I got decent shift at 14mm with no vignetting (intact hood). However, this will leave you with no aperture control or exif info.

I think the 17mm TSE is the best T/S solution. And much more useful than the 24mm.



Oct 11, 2016 at 08:23 PM
trogdon
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?




TakenWild wrote:
I have the Canon TSE 17mm and TSE 24mm II. I also have the Mirex T/S adapter for Pentax 645. I have Pentax 645 and 67 lenses.

The Pentax 645 75mm 2.8 will give you 15mm of shift in both directions and hold very good sharpness on the A7R2 stopped down (I'd say as sharp as FE 70-200 f4).

The Pentax 645 35mm is very sharp unshifted and stopped down (as sharp as the TSE 24mm II). Image quality degrades after 8mm of shift in any direction (12-15mm even more so). I find it fine on my IR converted A7, so
...Show more

Question about the Pentax 67 lenses, what adapter do you use for those? I have the 45mm and 55mm, seems like they would be interesting to use on the a7r provided the price of the adapters was reasonable



Oct 11, 2016 at 10:23 PM
TakenWild
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Hi, trogdon

I have the latest 67 55mm f4 and the latest 67 75mm f4.5, but I am waiting on two adapters for Pentax 645 to 67 coming any day now. Reviews have stated these two lenses are fabulous (the latest 67 55mm is far sharper than the 645 versions, old or new).

I use three adapters,
Kipon emount to EF adapter.
Mirex EF to Pentax 645 shift tilt adapter.
K&C Pentax 645 to Pentax 67 adapter (I have bought two of these, both are coming in the mail. K&C are the best cheap adapters I've found, Kipton is much better).
All of them are flocked (this is a must).

Also have coming in the mail the Fotodiox emount to EF shift adapter to test even more shift (extra 10mm in both directions) than 15mm in both directions.

Mirex shift-tilt adapter is not cheap (400euros I think), but good quality. They also make Shift-tilt adapters (canon and Nikon mounts) to Pentax 67 (less adapter = better quality). This might be good idea if you don't care about 645 lenses. They also make emount to EF shift-tilt adapters, but EF to 67 is a long way, so might not be the most stable.

Your cheapest option might be Fotodiox with only 10mm of shift and getting a EF or Nikon to Pentax 67 adapter. That will be less than $150 (I can't advise on the quality has mine hasn't come yet).



Oct 12, 2016 at 04:25 AM
mdemeyer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Had to make some EBay photos this weekend... doing a little house cleaning. Here are two shots with an A7 on the Actus (Kolari thin filter v3 mod, but the mod is not relevant with this lens) using a Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm F4 enlarging lens. This are reduced in size for EBay, but the lens performed very well on these close-up (but non-Macro) shots.

APO-Rodagon-N 80mm @ F8 #1

APO-Rodagon-N 80mm @ F8 #2

The only thing to deal with is to cover the place where the light comes through for the aperture scale illumination. Handy in the darkroom, not so nice for taking use.

This setup is really nice for this kind of stuff...

Michael



Oct 30, 2016 at 11:13 PM
marktomaras
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


Hello TakenWild, I saw your post on this subject. Just in time too. I was about to take the plunge, and order a Mirex along with a Pentax 645 lens (the 35mm to start).

I use an A7RII. I am looking to get tech camera style rear shifts to make panoramic photos for large prints.

I am leaning towards getting the EOS to Sony E mount Mirex as it has the better tripod foot, and true rear standard style shifting. Then the plan is to adapt the lens to EOS, and use it on the Mirex. One bonus is that I can use any medium format lens with an EOS adapter on my Mirex.

So, now for 15mm of shift!

You say the Pentax 645 75mm will give 15mm of shift, sounds great.

Did you get your adapters and try the 67 lenses yet?
Do you think it is also worth considering Mamiya RZ67 lenses over pentax? I guess the trick is to find out who has the best wide angle with the biggest image circle.

I'd love your input on this. Thanks!



Nov 01, 2016 at 09:17 AM
rdeloe
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I had an RZ67 Pro II system for a while. Mamiya RZ67 lenses have built in leaf shutters, plus they don't have an internal focus mechanism. They're also quite large. You'd have to rig up some kind of bellows arrangement; I've seen it done, but it looks awkward and I'm not sure you're going to get better image quality than other options.


Nov 01, 2016 at 09:43 AM
mdemeyer
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I have done some initial tests with the Pentax 645 35mm (original A version). Sharpness and image circle both seem very good, but I'm still trying to get a handle on the geometric distortion, which is a bit wavy and complex. Not a show stopper, I suspect, but I'm spoiled by the tech camera lenses in this regard. But those wides are really not an option with the Actus/Sony combo.

I'll do a comparison of the Pentax 645 35mm with a later vintage Nikon 35mm 2.8 shift lens (both on the Actus) and the original FD mount Canon TS35 (performs very well but for CA which is not too hard to correct).

I'm still looking for a Contax PC Distagon 35mm to mount on the Actus as my ultimate 35mm solution. But they seem scarce as hen's teeth lately...

Michael

marktomaras wrote:
Hello TakenWild, I saw your post on this subject. Just in time too. I was about to take the plunge, and order a Mirex along with a Pentax 645 lens (the 35mm to start).

I use an A7RII. I am looking to get tech camera style rear shifts to make panoramic photos for large prints.

I am leaning towards getting the EOS to Sony E mount Mirex as it has the better tripod foot, and true rear standard style shifting. Then the plan is to adapt the lens to EOS, and use it on the Mirex. One bonus is that I can
...Show more



Nov 01, 2016 at 09:49 AM
rdeloe
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I can't do a side-by-side anymore of the Canon FD 35mm T/S, but I did own that lens and use it a lot. It's a remarkable performer for a lens of that vintage. Yes, the Canon T/S Mark 2 lenses blow it out of the water! However, the Canon FD did a fine job on a Sony A7 all things considered.

I sold it eventually for two reasons. First, I wanted a wider range of T/S options. Second, unlike the Canon T/S Mark II lenses, you don't get tilt independent from shift. The choices are tilt with shift, or tilt with rise/fall -- and you have to physically disassemble and reassemble the lens in the orientation you want. This is hard on the screws and not something you'd want to do with any regularity.

I switched to a dual Mirex setup to get what I want. The first Mirex adapter is EOS to NEX, and the second is Pentax 645 to EOS. I used EOS as the common interface because it has by far the widest throat. Together, this combination allows for tilt independent from shift/rise/fall. It's as close to a view camera-like setup as you can get with adapters I suspect. Next step would be an actual view camera rig (see post above) or a Cambo Actus setup.

The lenses I use in my setup are SMC Pentax-A 645s. I use the 35/3.5, 55/2.8, 75/2.8 and 150/3.5. I also have the 45-85/4.5 zoom. It's really good a the wide end (as good as the primes, and certainty better at 45mm than the SMC Pentax-A 45mm lens, which is a bit of a dud). At 85mm the zoom is a bit soft.

Unshifted I'm really happy with the image quality of these 645 lenses. I realize they're not up to the standards of the best modern glass, but in my testing and personal opinion they're still excellent (with some variability among lenses). I tend to shoot at smaller apertures (usually f/8 and f/11) and I shoot for black and white. In that context, I've had no concerns.

As for shifted, I was perfectly happy shifting all of thse until yesterday! Forum member TakenWild had posted elsewhere that image quality was poor at large shifts. That was news to me and I was skeptical at first... but then I did my own testing yesterday and today. Sadly, it's true that as you get closer to the edge of the image circle, there's a definite IQ fall-off. Rats!
* In my testing, at 5mm rise in portrait orientation (shifting up) all of the P645 lenses I use are totally fine.
* At 10mm of rise in portrait my 35, 55 and 150 lenses are showing a loss of resolution and an increase in purple fringing (which doesn't exist at 0mm shift) at the top of the image. The 75 is still fine.
* At 15mm of rise in portrait, the 35, 55 and 150 are looking a bit grim, while the 75mm is still holding its own.
In all cases, all of the problems experienced are much worse wide open than at f/11, and are largely limited to the top of the portrait-oriented shots (because that's the part that's closest to the edge of the image circle).

So... what do you do? It comes back to what you need. I've shifted the 35mm Pentax-A lens 17mm (using rise on the two adapters), and I've been happy with the result. Here's an example: http://www.robdeloephotography.com/Image-Galleries/Guelph/i-fQtjh38/A Yes, it's true that the spire at the top of the church tower is showing some distortion from this large shift. It's hard to see in this tiny web print, but my target was a 17x25" print, and you can see it there if you come up close. However, I needed that shift to get this image, so I'm happy with the tradeoff. Your standards may be different -- so it's difficult to give advice once we get to this point. I'd say that if you need absolutely no image quality loss during 15mm shifts, you won't be happy going this route (Mirex adapters and P645 lenses).

Like marktomaras, I'm looking forward to hearing anyone's experiences with the Pentax 67 lenses. Those have a much bigger image circle, which would keep you farther away from the edge during a large shift. The tradeoff is weight, and the widest non-fish eye Pentax 67 is 45mm -- not wide enough if what you need is 35mm. That's yet another trade-off...



Nov 01, 2016 at 10:32 AM
TakenWild
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Architectural Tilt/Shift options for the A7?


I'd agree with you the Pentax 645 75mm is the best shifted lens in their lineup. The 35mm is also not bad. The 55mm is a very sharp lens, but has really bad field curvature, which makes it unsuitable for infinity landscapes.

I do have experience with Pentax 67 lenses on Sony A7R2. I have the latest 67 55mm f4 and the latest 75mm f4.5.

rdeloe wrote:
I can't do a side-by-side anymore of the Canon FD 35mm T/S, but I did own that lens and use it a lot. It's a remarkable performer for a lens of that vintage. Yes, the Canon T/S Mark 2 lenses blow it out of the water! However, the Canon FD did a fine job on a Sony A7 all things considered.

I sold it eventually for two reasons. First, I wanted a wider range of T/S options. Second, unlike the Canon T/S Mark II lenses, you don't get tilt independent from shift. The choices are tilt with shift, or tilt
...Show more



Nov 01, 2016 at 09:47 PM
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