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Archive 2016 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?
  
 
Smridevan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


I haven't seen many pictures on here from people using the new Otus 28/1.4 surprisingly. Is anyone buying that lense??
May 20, 2016 at 03:35 PM
phuang3
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


There are some pictures on this forum, even before the announcement. I believe one member here is an early tester of this lens.
May 20, 2016 at 05:40 PM
millsart
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Its optically fantastic, very expensive, quite large and heavy, and a focal length that isn't all that popular with many shooters, so no, I doubt too many people are buying one.

Its certainly not a bad lens, but much like the Otus 55, a lens I for one know I wouldn't ever actually carry even if it was given to me for free.

Its an impractical "best" of the best that is going to have niche appeal, and with a small demographic shooting it, its going to have maybe 1/100th the number of images shared as something "popular" like the Loxia lenses
May 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


I won't be buying it. I love the focal length, but it's too expensive and manual focus.
May 21, 2016 at 12:31 AM
philber
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


I tried it for 5 minutes. Enough to be hugely impressed. It felt like "the best DSLR lens ever made". Just an impression, of course, but there is one with my name on it, as soon as I can get the gumption.
May 21, 2016 at 01:39 AM
Smridevan
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


It's also my favorite focal length but the price and weight scare me away. I'd buy it if it's closer to 3k but not 5! I think Zeiss made a mistake in pricing these Otiis which runs counter to the current trend of making things lighter, smaller and cheaper.
May 21, 2016 at 06:56 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Lighter smaller and cheaper certainly isn't Zeiss's trend. The redesigned Milvus are huge too and even the rehoused ones inexplicably gained moderate bulk just to allow for swoopy new hood cosmetics. I'd argue that's not the trend overall, anyway. *cameras* are getting smaller (too small for usability in some cases, just my opinion) but lenses aren't. The Sony FE lenses are as big or bigger than DSLR equivalents, the ART series is hardly petite, etc.

I do think the Otus are extreme, though, and the price is hard to justify. They've said the 135/2 is Otus-caliber and would've been an Otus if the branding had existed when it was released. To which I say...explain how it's able to be so much less expensive, if the Otus is fairly priced.

Edit: The reason I'm bothered by the growth of these lenses is that I feel in many cases there's no payoff. The Milvus rehouses as I've already mentioned, and even the 50 redesign which is better but not IMHO enough so to justify the size increase. On the other hand, I love to carry a 180/2 APO-Summicron-R, so I have no issue with a lens being huge if it delivers. And this 28 Otus does that. I wasn't truly sold on the 55 or 85 Otii, but if I could afford this one I'd buy it for sure.
May 21, 2016 at 10:22 AM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Lee Saxon wrote:
I do think the Otus are extreme, though, and the price is hard to justify. They've said the 135/2 is Otus-caliber and would've been an Otus if the branding had existed when it was released. To which I say...explain how it's able to be so much less expensive, if the Otus is fairly priced.


Has Zeiss said that? I've seen it pop up in user reviews and on the boards, but I've never seen it directly attributed to Zeiss.
May 21, 2016 at 09:17 PM
MAubrey
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Lee Saxon wrote:
Lighter smaller and cheaper certainly isn't Zeiss's trend.
Well...there's the Loxia and the ZM lines. They're still alive and kicking and nicely compact.

SLR's though and the Batis...yeah. That's a problem.

Edited on May 21, 2016 at 09:39 PM · View previous versions
May 21, 2016 at 09:39 PM
lbloom
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


freaklikeme wrote:
Has Zeiss said that? I've seen it pop up in user reviews and on the boards, but I've never seen it directly attributed to Zeiss.

verybiglobo on the subject:

"Mr. Hubert Nasse (Strategic Business Unit Camera Lenses Laboratory, Staff Scientist), one of the most competent people in Zeiss AG, was so kind to reply on above question, making it more clear:

In fact the Apo-Sonnar could have been included in the OTUS line, but at the time of its development the OTUS project was not yet decided. It is at least very near to OTUS in terms of general level of correction, Otus chromatic criteria are still a bit more tight, but nevertheless the 135 deserves the term ‘APO’, since it is clearly different from many other similar lenses."
May 21, 2016 at 09:39 PM
davewolfs
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Probably because this type of lense doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 28mm is popular amongst street shooters. What street shooter wants to lug around an Otus?

I'm sure it's a fantastic lens.


May 21, 2016 at 11:16 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


lbloom wrote:
verybiglobo on the subject:

"Mr. Hubert Nasse (Strategic Business Unit Camera Lenses Laboratory, Staff Scientist), one of the most competent people in Zeiss AG, was so kind to reply on above question, making it more clear:

In fact the Apo-Sonnar could have been included in the OTUS line, but at the time of its development the OTUS project was not yet decided. It is at least very near to OTUS in terms of general level of correction, Otus chromatic criteria are still a bit more tight, but nevertheless the 135 deserves the term ‘APO’, since it is clearly different from"...Show more →

Thanks. It's interesting to see they've admitted it, or come close while artfully dodging it. If you look at the LensRentals MTFs posted on LenTip for the APO-Sonnar when compared to the Otus 55 and 85 at like apertures, it's higher resolution with a flatter field than either of the other two. I suspect the Otus are probably better corrected for spherochromatism, but the APO-Sonnar's hardly a slouch there.
May 21, 2016 at 11:19 PM
uhoh7
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


The 28/1.4 seems a bridge too far.

I've been amazed at how the 55/1.4 has actually been bought by quite a few here. Yes, it's fantastic, so is medium format,

But the 28 is way larger yet, no?

The success of the A7 is based mostly on form factor, as Sony itself declares. Yet that ethos is simply out the window with more than a few FE lenses. But the 28 Otus is utterly beyond the pale. as they used to say in Ireland.

I love 28, and a 1.4 28 would be nice, but I find even the Leica too large. The Otus 28 seems really to be a studio lens.

There is a way of thinking where design balances performance with size, which peaked with the v4 50 Cron. That lens is so good and so tiny. It's an impressive combination and a joy to shoot


May 21, 2016 at 11:54 PM
philber
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


OK, I am going to get into trouble here. I wrote in blog post on DearSusan a piece called "it's all about the comfort, stupid!". Meaning that comfort is what the discerning shooter looks for first and foremost when making gear choices. Except that each of us has his or her own personal version of what "comfort" means. To some of us, it is a great shooting experience. To others, it means small and lightweight to carry around. To others, is means delightful haptics and a joy to handle. And so on. To me, it means the comfort of knowing that my shot captured everything that was out there, bar none. That nothing I could have brought to bear on the subject (gear-wise at least) would have gotten me better results. The Otus does that, in its three focal lengths. That is why, to me, it is the world's most comfortable lens. It's all about the comfort, stupid!
May 22, 2016 at 02:09 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


I am still saving up for it and plan to rent it and try it out first. I don't want to try it out until I can buy it as I am pretty sure I will love it despite its size and weight like my Otus 55.
May 22, 2016 at 12:45 PM
azenis
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


I went to my dealer and tried it out along with the Leica 28mm F1.4 (had to wear a glove to try them as they were both spoken for )

The Otus was very sharp throughout the frame. I was surprised how little difference it had between the corner and center. The Leica and my Nikon 28mm F1.4 otoh dropped quickly as you move toward the corner (@F1.4 that is)

The Leica produced the smoothest color IMO. It wasn't as accurate as Otus, but the most pleasing to my eyes when looking on my camera's screen.

Nevertheless, I think both the Leica and Otus produced that modern bokeh look (highly corrected). Something I'm not a particular fan of.

After trying for a short 15min, I think I was comfortable enough to stick with my Nikon for now. And if I were to pick another 28mm F1.4 down the road, I'd probably get the Leica.
May 22, 2016 at 01:55 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Lee Saxon wrote:

*cameras* are getting smaller (too small for usability in some cases, just my opinion) but lenses aren't.

The physics of optics is always an exercise in "no free lunch" ... but, there might be a pragmatic point of diminishing returns (subjective) depending on who you ask.
May 22, 2016 at 04:55 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Matt Granger with Dr Nasse:
http://petapixel.com/2014/09/21/video-fascinating-lens-design-101-interview-zeiss-master/

'computer design and glass technology' (as drivers of new lens design)
'size and weight will then grow incredibly' (to get better lenses)
'nobody could afford it and nobody could use it' (larger better lenses)
'a demonstration of our performance' (wrt a hypothetical unlimited cost lens)
'reflections back from the sensor is about 10 times the reflections from glass surfaces'
'even with modern high performance coatings, suppression is not good enough'
'I try (as a photographer) to build a bridge between the world of numbers and the perception'
'I love 85mm, for dealing with people, I can only recommend 85mm'
'for the older lenses - Planar 85/1.4 - color corrections is not good enough for the speed of the lens, high speed makes that the depth of focus and depth of field are actually smaller than the focus difference than the color - we see color fringes (LoCA)'
comment on 135/2 APO at 31.15 - 'Otus was not yet decided'
'performance absolutely identical to the Otus'

Non-Otus lenses in ZEF that are outstanding?
135/2; 100/2 (100MP), 'not quite on the same level for color correction, if wide open color is essential, he should prefer the 135mm'), '21mm and the 15mm' (ZEF f2.8), 'these are the best ones' 'we should not forget the ZM 35/1.4'.

'Lighter smaller and cheaper certainly isn't Zeiss's trend.'
Lee, I have to agree..*but* Zeiss were late to the a7x party, the L35/L50 were almost a full year after the release of the a7/a7r, and both were quite easy redesigns for them. Also Fred and many others will prefer the new gen Loxia/Batis wide angles over the ZEF units. I'd guess Zeiss have their designers fully in harness right now in pursuit of 'small lens excellence'.

It will be interesting to see how the newly propagated, broad based respect for older lenses for their character / class / depth plays out, given that the big concerns and changes seem to be about stray light control, sensor reflection amelioration, new glass types (less than optimal give Otus level prices for 'better' glass) now the enviro people have outlawed lead. It seems a case can easily be made that makers are chasing image quality pure and simple, as an *end in itself*.

But - photographic quality has a very large artistic component rather than being merely a purely image quality matter, unlike say airliner or car design. Ours is not a simple matter of progress measured by metrics. If the concerns raised by Dr Nasse are so problematic and highly prioritized, why then do so many older lenses deliver the goods as well as, and often arguably better than - and let's say fully satisfying in so doing - so many new lenses on these digital cameras?
May 22, 2016 at 07:28 PM
philber
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


Philip, my answer to your question, for what it is worth, is this: these older "less-than-perfect" lenses "deliver the goods" in one or two ways.
Either because their weaknesses do not extend throughout the performance envelope, leaving part of it unaffected. This lets the photographer enjoy a seriously good lens as long as he (she) avoids the problem area. Examples: ZE/ZF 50 Planar f!1,4 and 85 Planar f:1,4. Stopped down, two superb landscape lenses. Also ZE/ZF 100 MakroPlanar. Brilliant as long as you avoid (or correct) CA wide open.
Or because their weakness "helps" achieve what the photographer wants. Example: the Mandler "glow" of fast lenses wide open, like Leica R Summilux 80 or Leica M Sumilux 75. The glow "looks good" for portrait, for some fans.
One of the challenges of the Otus is to maintain very high performance in all circumstances, and not just across a defined performance window. Which means that, to some extent, if you as a photographer, have a dominant field of practice (portrait, or landscape, or macro) rather than a more balanced one, your chances of finding a delightful lens for your use for significantly less cost than the Otus increase sharply (or glowingly..:-)
Just my $0,02
May 23, 2016 at 12:30 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Otus 28/1.4 pictures?


freaklikeme wrote:
If you look at the LensRentals MTFs posted on LenTip for the APO-Sonnar when compared to the Otus 55 and 85 at like apertures, it's higher resolution with a flatter field than either of the other two.

This is very true of the 135/2, but what's surprising is that it's also arguably true of the 100MP. Center/peak sharpness is clearly lower but falloff is far less and with much less astigmatism.

The 85 Otus use case strikes me as rather narrow. If you need a flat field you may want to reach for the 100MP instead. If you don't need a flat field, there's a decent chance you're shooting portraits. For that, the 85 Milvus is less punishingly sharp and has a nicer look anyway (IMHO).

(Now, I'm only going on MTF and FM & Flickr samples for the 85s. My opinion might be different if I'd used all 4 of these lenses myself.)

uhoh7 wrote:
I love 28, and a 1.4 28 would be nice, but I find even the Leica too large...There is a way of thinking where design balances performance with size, which peaked with the v4 50 Cron.

lol Charlie there's no doubt the 28 Otus designers are way out at one extreme of the spectrum as far as what's an acceptable size/weight for a lens, but there's also no doubt you're way at the other extreme!

philber wrote:
To me, it means the comfort of knowing that my shot captured everything that was out there, bar none. That nothing I could have brought to bear on the subject (gear-wise at least) would have gotten me better results.

Yes! Exactly! That's what I was getting at myself with "I don't mind a big lens if it really delivers."

azenis wrote:
I think I was comfortable enough to stick with my Nikon [28/1.4] for now.


I've always wanted that lens. I wish I'd gotten around to getting one years ago because IIRC they used to go for far less than the $2500+ I'm seeing on eBay now (not as crazy as the 58/1.2 NOCT has gone, but still). I'm assuming you got yours somewhat more reasonably. So I wonder, if you had to choose between the three at today's prices would you still go with the Nikon?

RustyBug wrote:
there might be a pragmatic point of diminishing returns (subjective) depending on who you ask.

Yeah, the subjectiveness of it being the problem Zeiss faces. For me the 28 Otus (and for example 85 Milvus and 180 APO-Cron) falls on the right side of that point while the other Otii (and for example the 50 Milvus) do not, for instance. But Charlie would give you a slightly different answer

philip_pj wrote:
But - photographic quality has a very large artistic component...If the concerns raised by Dr Nasse are so problematic and highly prioritized, why then do so many older lenses...

I definitely think Zeiss is sensitive to that. As I typed above, if I'd designed a "no compromises" mid-telephoto it would've had MTF curves shaped more like the 100MP. What we got instead with the 85 Otus surely has more artistic potential.
May 23, 2016 at 02:31 AM
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