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Archive 2016 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

MAubrey
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

I'm looking at the data sheet for it on Zeiss' website and it looks awesome, but I see no sign of it anywhere online.

May 14, 2016 at 09:30 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

It does exist

May 14, 2016 at 09:47 AM

MAubrey
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

That good to know. I've now found a couple flickr photos and a defunct Amazon listing.

I'm glad someone somewhere is (hopefully) enjoying it.

May 14, 2016 at 10:30 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

It's quite rare in the wild actually. I bought mine even though the seller lied about its condition and had it revamped by Zeiss. Cost me used more than a new Leica 90 AA. I don't regret at all, it is indeed a very special lens. I post quite often in the Leica thread and you can also check my Flickr account (https://www.flickr.com/photos/edwardkaraa/).

May 14, 2016 at 10:56 AM

rico
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

The S85 ZM had a rocky start, being delayed for many months by production problems in Oberkochen. Despite the made-in-Germany price, I was pretty excited by this lens until I saw the CA—basically a disaster.

The S85 is now discontinued.

May 14, 2016 at 11:00 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

rico wrote:
The S85 ZM had a rocky start, being delayed for many months by production problems in Oberkochen. Despite the made-in-Germany price, I was pretty excited by this lens until I saw the CA—basically a disaster.

The S85 is now discontinued.

Technically it has purple fringing but no laCA. It only appears when shooting high key scenes at wide apertures. The rendering is very special so you can say it is a flawed gem

The resolution from wide open is outstanding and at f/4 it is probably the world champion.

May 14, 2016 at 11:09 AM

rico
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

Sorry, Edward, if I was pissing on your positive ownership experience.

May 14, 2016 at 11:30 AM

trogdon
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

I saw one for sale here for about $3k, might still be posted

May 14, 2016 at 11:52 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

rico wrote:
Sorry, Edward, if I was pissing on your positive ownership experience.

I'm a bit on a rampage lately about LCA/TCA. It was a bit of a shock to discover that lowly Sigma and even more lowly Samyang can turn out lenses which are stunningly free of any appreciable chromatic error. I purchased and use these newcomers, and still shake my head when perusing the images. We certainly have a Golden Age of optical design going full tilt.

Absolutely no problem Rico. It's true that newer designs are next to perfect. The Sonnar has a very particular rendering due to the uncorrected aberrations. Some like it, some don't. It draws really ugly sometimes so I curse it, then under different lighting it performs wonderfully. The current Zeiss trend is for optically flawless lenses so it's no wonder the sonnar was discontinued.

May 14, 2016 at 12:27 PM

MAubrey
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

Thanks for the info everyone.

I'd just like to see Zeiss create something on the short tele end that could pair nicely with the ZM 35mm f/1.4, so seeing the datasheet for the Sonnar got my hopes up.

May 14, 2016 at 02:36 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

For my taste, the 85/2 performs (and renders) amazing in low light situations. I would love one someday....

May 14, 2016 at 02:48 PM

rico
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

@MAubrey, the less exotic option in the ZM family is the TT85/4 which doesn't get much airtime, but I really like the rendering as seen in various posts. Naturally, it's much lighter and cheaper than the Sonnar. These slow teles are perfect for a walkaround RF/MILC kit, and I have three in the Elmar form.

May 14, 2016 at 04:40 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

I believe the ZM85/4 is discontinued?

I have shot with another forum member's ZM85/2 and while it was only a brief opportunity, the lens impressed me with its character in the kinds of situations I would probably use it... But I also ran into the purple fringing problem at times. Since they're easier to find, I ended up with a 90AA. Technically cleaner, but not quite as character-rich, IMO. I've seen one side by side test of the two and it seemed the ZM put the background more out of focus than the 90AA.

Maybe 3-4 years ago, early in my RF adventures, a friend who sold Zeiss asked if I was interested in an 85/2 demo. I passed due to budgetary reasons at the time. Regretting it now....

I think there was a thread asking similarly about the 85/2 a couple years ago, to which I posted some photos. Here are some of those photos (shot on an M9 and processed to taste)...

https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0613.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0621.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0628.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0644.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0653.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0657.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0658.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0665.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0668.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0674.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0675.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0693.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0700.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0706.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321/20120321_0729.jpg

Edited on Jul 14, 2020 at 12:41 AM · View previous versions

May 14, 2016 at 08:27 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

What really impressed me with the lens was I was able to nail focus pretty easily. Something I can't say is as consistent with my 90AA.

Here are some crops of problem areas in a couple other photos...

Purple fringing, though slight. I think this one was probably at f/2.8 because it was full sun. But it was four years ago and I don't remember any more... Note the moire in the hat.

https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0005.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0005A.jpg

And also some purple fringing kind of evident in some areas in the first crop, but at some distances the lens can be a bit harsh. Probably what Edward was referring to....

https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0044.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0044A.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0044B.jpg
https://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20120321_85sonnar/20120321_0044C.jpg

Edited on Jul 14, 2020 at 12:40 AM · View previous versions

May 14, 2016 at 08:34 PM

jhinkey
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

rscheffler wrote:
I believe the ZM85/4 is discontinued?

Nope, at least B&H still sells it. I just grabbed a used black version in pristine shape for $550 and am seeing if I like it more than my 75/2.5 Summarit-M. It's lighter, but a bit longer than the Leica.

May 14, 2016 at 08:47 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

OK, thanks. I know it's not a problem to find it. I guess I got it confused with the ZM 18/4, for which Zeiss has discontinued production.

Yeah, I wish the 85/4 could have been made shorter, if possible. I tried one many years ago and wasn't compelled by it.

May 14, 2016 at 09:04 PM

rico
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

John, don't be shy about posting some images from that TT85.

May 14, 2016 at 09:13 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

I used to have the tele tessar before I got the sonnar. It is a nice lens by all means, but f/4 can be very limiting in terms of background separation and low light shooting. While it is no slouch sharpness wise, once you shoot with the sonnar nothing else can compare. THe sonnar is so much sharper.
PS. The sonnar also tends to flare, which is unusual for a Zeiss lens. The tele tessar has zero flare, in line with all other ZM.

May 14, 2016 at 10:47 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

A few recent shots, all at f/2:

M240 + ZM 85/2 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 85/2 by edward karaa, on Flickr

SL 601 + ZM 85/2 by edward karaa, on Flickr

May 14, 2016 at 11:15 PM

MAubrey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Does the Zeiss ZM Sonnar T* 85mm f/2 actually exist?

These are beautiful, Ron & Edward! Thanks. Now, I'm more sad the Sonnar was discontinued.

I've been using the Contax G 90mm and an FD85L on my A7rII. They're both great, don't get me wrong. Size-wise the Contax is a perfect companion to the CV35mm f/1.2II. But I often find that, with the Contax, I'm wishing it was a little faster and had a nice MF ring and, with the Canon, that it was a little smaller. When I saw the Sonnar datasheet, I thought I had found the answer!

May 15, 2016 at 10:05 AM

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