Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

FM Forum Rules
Nature & Wildlife Posting Guidelines

FM Forums | Nature & Wildlife | Join Upload & Sell

2 end

Archive 2016 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

MedicineMan404
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

A new camera and lens came in and I forgot about 'Sir Harry' as we call him here at home.
OK, let me stir the pot.
In my backyard we have 3 blinds and an extensive bird studio creating several habitats and offering constant changes of backgrounds/bokeh/perches.
All for song birds.
So much bird feed is brought in and that brought in tons of squirrels, rabbits, snakes, groundhogs, chipmonks, and of course many song birds (we have 3 nesting pair of Cardinals out back).

One day I notice this Red-tail Hawk observing my studio from a walnut tree.
I had three thoughts-
1. He's going to nab my birds
2. He's going to nab the vermin
3. He is a photographic opportunity
Before you any further go here:
http://www.gigrin.co.uk/
and go heer:
http://www.redkiteswales.co.uk/

Luckily I knew that laws in my home state are extensive and severe concerning raptors but luckier a good friend and man we have backpacked and paddle camped with frequently is a high ranking officer of the Wildlife Resource Agency. i.e. someone I could ask by.
He came and I showed my plan.
A 'hawk station' out amongst the feeding stations for the song birds.
We talked about the raptor mortality rate in my state (few make it beyond 2cd year) and can I, should I, if I do feed the hawk will it help them, will it hurt them BUT most importantly this is the officer who takes your car and the poachers rifle and to federal court, is it illegal. This same Wildlife man used to climb trees (40 feet up) in GSM Nat.Park and temporarily remove newborn bear cubs for weighing/measuring).....

He told me-
It is not illegal to feed a hawk.
It probably will not dent their mortality rate.
It will never displace their natural wired state to hunt.

So in due time I placed my first squirrel on the hawk tower. And over 3 months time two nesting hawks began coming to see whats for dinner. (It took the same 3 months to find their nest).
I also contact the Gigrin Farm in wales to confirm what is best to feed raptors since they are experts and sanctioned. Beef is preferred, but avoid anything laden with antibiotics and hormones.

OK. I realize many of you birder types hate baiting; and many a discussion has been made over the 'fish throwing at the Lock and Dams, many more discussions comparing feeding song birds at feeders to feeding raptors. So as I post this picture I have my fire retardant suit on and remind you that many an awesome Kingfisher shot was had by placing a bucket of fish under water where the civilian picture observer cannot see...didn't take me long to wonder why a Kingfisher would dive in the same place over and over

So here is the final shot of Sir Harry

Copernicus crisius by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr

Apr 16, 2016 at 12:50 AM

John Hanon
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Woaaw! Stunning.

Love it

Apr 16, 2016 at 06:47 AM

John Hanon
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Woaaw! Stunning.

Love it

Apr 16, 2016 at 06:53 AM

surfnron
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

I use 4 or 5 types of food for the local birds, so I see no harm in adding another type of food as long as the feedings are consistent. That is, of course, my opinion.

And this is a great shot ~ Ron

Apr 16, 2016 at 07:33 AM

MedicineMan404
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Ron thanks.
Forgot to mention I also contacted the local professor of ornithology at the local U to get his opinion....he was neither for or against but also recommended 'non-processed' meats. He was curious how we found the nest though.

Apr 16, 2016 at 07:39 AM

unclechuck
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Robert

What a powerful and informative illustration of common sense and preserving the natural order. I have a similar dilemma played out in the stand of Live Oaks in my front yard. Across the street is a wooded area where two and sometimes three Red Shoulders nest. I located feeders behind the trees flanked by high hedges to make direct hits nearly impossible but of course there are always casualties.

Great shot with superb narrative!

Charles

Apr 16, 2016 at 08:22 AM

MedicineMan404
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Charles thank you muchly.

Apr 16, 2016 at 08:23 AM

eyelaser
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Robert, a wonderful photo and very interesting back story. This discussion has played out here many times and with varying degrees of civility. Since by nature I am a scientist, I would love to know if there are any real studies either pro or con feeding, baiting etc. I think there are "feelings' but no well thought out and performed controlled studies. The problem with feelings are they are just that...we think with our heart more than our brain and so we come to conclusions that more often than not justify the conclusion we want to be correct. My issue, is more the ethics of producing photos that are purported to be "wild" when in fact they are not totally so. If one is willing to identify an image as being captured in a "controlled" environment then the viewer can make a judgement as to how that affects their impression of both the quality of the image and the photographic skill of the person who rendered the image. Can I, for example, appreciate a wonderful photo taken at the Canadian Raptor Observatory....of course I can, but I wouldn't put that on a level playing field with one that occurred without the aid of a trained bird flying in a predetermined pattern...even I, a very bad, bif photographer might get a decent image or two in that situation.
Thanks for sharing you image and info...and also the experienced impressions of your friends more involved in day to day wildlife issues.

Eric

Apr 16, 2016 at 08:35 AM

KCollett
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Great pose and proximity. Millions of people feed/bait birds (and other critters), and I don't suspect that will ever change. They do it for a variety of reasons too. It is not always for love and affection.

Apr 16, 2016 at 09:14 AM

PhillipAnthony
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Amazing shot and commentary.

I wonder how many hours were spent capturing this image? No pain, no gain.

Thank you for sharing this incredible image and enlightening us on the laws regarding the feeding of these magnificent birds of prey.

Apr 16, 2016 at 09:45 AM

buzzard
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

You have a winner there, stunning image.

Apr 16, 2016 at 09:53 AM

MedicineMan404
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Eric thank you very much for a well thought out and considerate answer.
KCollet thank you as well. Even now I wonder of the outcome. One thing that makes the process easier for my psyche to process is that I've seen this same hawk catch squirrels in the backyard.
I guess I should also mention our 'backyard' is 200,000 acres of Nat. Forest.
Mr. Anthony the entire process has taken four months...not painful but often cold to the bone sitting in the hide

Yes there are no laws against feeding a hawk but the moment I ensnare/trap/cage ~without a falconer's license~ I am subject to fine and/or imprisonment

UncleChuck, thank you. I will admit that there is a financial motive. I've spent quite a number of shekels on the bird studio and feeding the song birds that visit; I would prefer to offer up a squirrel or half pound of beef to loosing the Cardinals Blue-J's, etc.

Apr 16, 2016 at 09:56 AM

birdied
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Long before I got into photography, I fed the birds with a variety of seeds, the squirrels with nuts and the hummingbirds with sugar water. I got to enjoy the sights and the sounds, a respite from the hassles of life and they got a meal especially in the winters and hard times. Maybe I'm naive, but the word baiting never entered my mind.

Time passes and I get into photography. Now my seemingly innocent practices and enjoyment are considered by some as baiting, unethical, cheating ,etc. I just feel that I added another element of enjoyment with the photography to the little place that birds and bees and small critters can come.

So, if it is baiting, then count me among the guilty.

As Eric so nicely stated, my issues are more with shots being presented as in the wild , when they are not.

Thanks for the information from well informed sources. I'm sure this area will always be up for debate.

Love your shot by the way.

Birdie

Apr 16, 2016 at 10:12 AM

Ted ellis
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Great pose

Apr 16, 2016 at 11:38 AM

a4guy
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

I applaud you. Hard work deserves great photos.

Have been photographing birds and nesting for forty years. If you are not causing the birds stress or harm what is the problem. Haven't lost a bird yet.

Good luck with your efforts.

Ron in Colorado

Apr 16, 2016 at 03:12 PM

morrismike
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Talk to a friend that bow hunts deer and have him set you up with a trail cam. I was at a photo class given by the IL DNR communications guys to learn about bird photography and it ended up being about trail cam usage. He says it is perfect for stuff like you are doing.

Apr 17, 2016 at 07:11 AM

morrismike
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Apr 17, 2016 at 07:11 AM

mogul
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

I am going to play devil's advocate here...anytime you feed birds, you are causing an unnatural concentration which can lead to disease and predation. In our area, Goshawks, Sharp shinned, and Cooper's take advantage of feeders and their ability to attract prey. Great Horned Owls will be attracted to the squirrels and in competition with Red Tail Hawks will dispatch the hawk and/or the nest. That said, nice shot, try not to overthink the consequences of feeding as long as you are aware of the results.

Apr 17, 2016 at 10:12 AM

brian_sp
Offline
• • • •
[X]

p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

eyelaser wrote:
Can I, for example, appreciate a wonderful photo taken at the Canadian Raptor Observatory....of course I can, but I wouldn't put that on a level playing field with one that occurred without the aid of a trained bird flying in a predetermined pattern...even I, a very bad, bif photographer might get a decent image or two in that situation.

Eric

+1
and if you miss the shot send the bird out again, hardly a challenge

birdied wrote:
As Eric so nicely stated, my issues are more with shots being presented as in the wild , when they are not.

+1

Apr 17, 2016 at 03:55 PM

martines34
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Last in my hawk series and let me stir up some controvery

Fantastic capture! Superb processing.

I'm glad I tuned in.

Thanks for sharing.

Apr 17, 2016 at 04:18 PM

1 2 end
FM Forums \| Nature & Wildlife \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.