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Archive 2016 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)

  
 
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


IIRC that DR you've measured for the 80D is similar to what Toshiba sensors were getting, mid-range between Canon and Sony, but Canon does better at high ISO for sure.


Mar 18, 2016 at 05:54 AM
technic
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Pixel Perfect wrote:
IIRC that DR you've measured for the 80D is similar to what Toshiba sensors were getting, mid-range between Canon and Sony, but Canon does better at high ISO for sure.


What Toshiba sensor are you talking about? It is generally assumed that D7200 has a Toshiba sensor and it is about the very best one available for APS-C. I'm not aware of any Canon advantage for either low ISO or high ISO compared to D7200.



Mar 18, 2016 at 06:09 AM
thw2
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


technic wrote:
But I will await D500 tests before deciding, just in case it proves to be far ahead of 80D in image quality or AF performance.


But you already know the D500 will be FAR ahead of 80D in image quality and AF performance based on the sensor scores of D7200 in DXOMark and early testing of D500 AF in DPReview.




Mar 18, 2016 at 08:11 AM
cgarcia
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Dutchphotog wrote:
Great info, do you have similar Numbers for the d7200 that you coups add to the graph?
I Looked at the dxo numbers for the d7200 and 7d mark II and they are slichgly different then your numbers. D7200 scores 14.6 I think in print DR which is still 1.5 stops above the canon 80d


No, I only have measured a few Canons just after the first RAWs appeared (impatience for knowing the improvements!). I use dcraw and a tiny tool written by myself which soon I'll upload for anybody interested on it.

The shown numbers are from measurements, but for the graph, to fix the 7D2 missing data I have interpolated (ISO 800, 3200, 25600) or setup a value from my own memories (ISO 400). For the truly measured levels, the difference with DXO test is minor, most of the time about 0.2 stops.

After the 80D results, the 1DX II (and later FF models) look very promising. The 80D low ISO DR surpass the 5DS, but not for such a huge amount. I think that at present Canon does has margin for even better results in FF, but this may depend also on the manufacturing timings (when a given sensor design was completed/frozen).



Mar 18, 2016 at 08:16 AM
form
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


This does encourage me to hope that the next 5d could resolve the issues I had with the 5d3 that forced me to switch to Nikon D750s for work. I have never truly liked Nikon as much as Canon, for reasons including ergo, lens/bokeh, overall function, and apparent corporate philosophy. However, Nikon just does certain things much better for me in the last generation.

In any case, I'm just waiting for the right reason to switch back to Canon.



Mar 18, 2016 at 11:15 AM
AJSJones
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Sharlin wrote:
It's pretty much by definition of ISO in digital cameras. With an ideal sensor, DR decreases exactly one stop per each ISO stop. This is simply due to the discrete nature of light, as an ideal sensor is only limited by photon shot noise. If you collect half the photons, then amplify the current you got to compensate, you double the noise floor and halve the signal-to-noise ratio.


It's that damn particle-wave duality. Even if we could make the sensors much more sensitive (and we're not far from the limit), we'd still be counting individual events and suffer the statstics that go with that



Mar 18, 2016 at 11:45 AM
jorkata
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


cgarcia wrote:
IR has just posted some RAW samples.

After a very quick analysis, it seems that fortunately our hopes have finally become true.


Thanks for the effort!



Mar 18, 2016 at 06:03 PM
jorkata
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


technic wrote:
What Toshiba sensor are you talking about? It is generally assumed that D7200 has a Toshiba sensor and it is about the very best one available for APS-C. I'm not aware of any Canon advantage for either low ISO or high ISO compared to D7200.


The D7100 had a Toshiba sensor.
It showed good results in DxO but suffered from banding, so not much actual DR advantage.

To my knowledge, the D7200 is assumed to have a Sony sensor.



Mar 18, 2016 at 06:06 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


jorkata wrote:
The D7100 had a Toshiba sensor.
It showed good results in DxO but suffered from banding, so not much actual DR advantage.

To my knowledge, the D7200 is assumed to have a Sony sensor.


That's my take as well. For the record I bought both the D7100 and more recently the D7200. Even with the banding, the D7100 had better IQ than the 70D at the time.

EBH



Mar 18, 2016 at 07:12 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


technic wrote:
What Toshiba sensor are you talking about? It is generally assumed that D7200 has a Toshiba sensor and it is about the very best one available for APS-C. I'm not aware of any Canon advantage for either low ISO or high ISO compared to D7200.


The D7100 and D5200 Toshiba sensors score about 13.7EV for DR. I wasn't aware the D7200 was still Toshiba, but that is a much better sensor and King of the APS_C sensors currently.



Mar 18, 2016 at 07:57 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


thw2 wrote:
But you already know the D500 will be FAR ahead of 80D in image quality and AF performance based on the sensor scores of D7200 in DXOMark and early testing of D500 AF in DPReview.



I read the D500 sensor is a Nikon design, but appears to being using Sony tech, like on-sensor ADC, so it might be quite different to D7200 Toshiba sensor, but I suspect it will be very good. I wonder if they have traded off absolute low ISO DR for superior high ISO noise, as I've seen reports it's very good at high ISO and should worry the 7DII.



Mar 18, 2016 at 08:01 PM
mogul
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Toshiba sensor division is wholly owned by Sony.


Mar 18, 2016 at 10:00 PM
technic
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Pixel Perfect wrote:
The D7100 and D5200 Toshiba sensors score about 13.7EV for DR. I wasn't aware the D7200 was still Toshiba, but that is a much better sensor and King of the APS_C sensors currently.


I'm not sure that the D7200 is Toshiba but many Nikon users seem to think that. Anyway, Sony now has access to all the best sensor technology after their Toshiba sensor division purchase.

---------------------------------------------

Pixel Perfect wrote:
I read the D500 sensor is a Nikon design, but appears to being using Sony tech, like on-sensor ADC, so it might be quite different to D7200 Toshiba sensor, but I suspect it will be very good. I wonder if they have traded off absolute low ISO DR for superior high ISO noise, as I've seen reports it's very good at high ISO and should worry the 7DII.


Agree, and because of that I'm not sure the D500 is better than 80D for low ISO, we don't know what trade-off, if any, has been made. But I expect D500 to be better in DR, and maybe even in detail/resolution despite the 20 MP (because of the 80D LP filter); the question is how much difference remains.

And in reply to thw2 about AF performance: of course D500 has better AF than 80D, but I don't know if it matters for me. My main 'action' subject is flying dragonflies, and they might prove too fast and unpredictable for even the best AF systems. I'm currently using MF on my 450D which works much better then AF, both 80D and 500D should be a big step up where at least in some conditions AF will work. Here again I don't know how relevant the difference is in practice and there is no way to know except by trying both or from others who used these cameras with similar subject.



Mar 19, 2016 at 06:51 AM
kewlcanon
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


Good to hear Canon is back.


Mar 19, 2016 at 09:33 AM
EB-1
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


I'm not convinced that data from the 80D can be extrapolated to other Canon sensors.

EBH



Mar 19, 2016 at 11:01 AM
RSHPhotography
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


I for one am really looking forward to the D500. I borrowed a 7D2 with the 300mm 2.8 IS and shooting an outdoor football game at night is a chore with Canon. It cannot do 'black' at high ISOs. Too many color artifacts as if there's mini colorful confetti thrown up. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but when I shoot using my Nikon D700 (Full frame, I know, not fair), it's a lot easier to fix in post.

My 6400 ISO of the 9 year old Nikon sensor cleans up beautifully in Lightroom. And that has been the most beautiful thing about Nikon and Sony. The noise looks like film grain and has a nice quality to it when zoomed in. Canon's noise looks artificial looking almost. Really hoping the 80D is a sign of things to come.



Mar 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM
brimull
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


RSHPhotography wrote:
I for one am really looking forward to the D500. I borrowed a 7D2 with the 300mm 2.8 IS and shooting an outdoor football game at night is a chore with Canon. It cannot do 'black' at high ISOs. Too many color artifacts as if there's mini colorful confetti thrown up. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but when I shoot using my Nikon D700 (Full frame, I know, not fair), it's a lot easier to fix in post.

My 6400 ISO of the 9 year old Nikon sensor cleans up beautifully in Lightroom. And that has been the most beautiful thing about
...Show more

You might want to check out some of the high ISO images shown on the 7DII thread in this forum.

Brian M.




Mar 19, 2016 at 04:08 PM
Iwas joeking
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


RSHPhotography wrote:
I for one am really looking forward to the D500. I borrowed a 7D2 with the 300mm 2.8 IS and shooting an outdoor football game at night is a chore with Canon. It cannot do 'black' at high ISOs. Too many color artifacts as if there's mini colorful confetti thrown up. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but when I shoot using my Nikon D700 (Full frame, I know, not fair), it's a lot easier to fix in post.

My 6400 ISO of the 9 year old Nikon sensor cleans up beautifully in Lightroom. And that has been the most beautiful thing about
...Show more

A couple of comments. If you stood side by side to a 7D shooter with that D700 with the same lens and compared images, I think you might be a bit surprised at just how much advantage a pixel dense sensor gives you.
Color noise is quite easy to fix.



Mar 19, 2016 at 04:46 PM
thw2
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


brimull wrote:
You might want to check out some of the high ISO images shown on the 7DII thread in this forum.
Brian M.


You think he'll bother to do that? He's just a troll from the other side.




Mar 19, 2016 at 06:24 PM
RSHPhotography
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon 80D dynamic range: good news! (quick test with RAW images)


thw2 wrote:
You think he'll bother to do that? He's just a troll from the other side.

I shoot both. I have a T2i and T4i as my personal everyday/vacation cameras.






Mar 20, 2016 at 01:23 AM
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