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Archive 2016 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

justruss
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

An interesting lens design that, if the price is right, might make my kit in place of the 12mm Voightlander.

http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1546399-1-1-1.html

Full size samples: http://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/sets/72157664200113000/

At 12mm f/2.8 and rectilinear this lens opens some interesting possibilities. No, I don't expect Loxia sharpness. But in my mind 12mm is a nice companion to 18mm and 28 or 35mm and 85 or 100mm for a prime kit.

It appears the lens designer is active in the first link I posted. There are full size samples in the Flickr link.

FE mount is really coming into its own. Hopefully Sigma and Tamron will enter the fray more directly with native designs too at some point.

_____________________

Update: The Laowa 12mm f/2.8 FE mount is now available to pre-order at B&H Photo for $949:

Venus Optics Laowa 12mm f/2.8 Zero-D Lens for Sony E

Expected availability: Beginning of December 2016

Feb 18, 2016 at 03:46 AM

trogdon
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

Very interesting lens, I'd love to see samples of the lens itself mounted on the a7. It's really desirable spec-wide, I've been interested in the 12mm Voigtlander LTM but this probably performs better

Feb 18, 2016 at 08:31 PM

q-w-z
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

How it compared with Voightlander 12mm?

Feb 18, 2016 at 09:29 PM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

justruss wrote:
An interesting lens design that, if the price is right, might make my kit in place of the 12mm Voightlander.

http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1546399-1-1-1.html

Full size samples: http://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/sets/72157664200113000/

At 12mm f/2.8 and rectilinear this lens opens some interesting possibilities. No, I don't expect Loxia sharpness. But in my mind 12mm is a nice companion to 18mm and 28 or 35mm and 85 or 100mm for a prime kit.

It appears the lens designer is active in the first link I posted. There are full size samples in the Flickr link.

FE mount is really coming into its own. Hopefully Sigma and Tamron will enter the...Show more →

You might want to mention the no-D part as well, no distortion. I am really interested, but waiting to see the size.

Feb 18, 2016 at 09:50 PM

justruss
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

Trogdon: Agreed.

q-w-z: Well, considering nobody has a production version of this lens available... who knows? Also, considering Voightlander hasn't released their FE-mount redesign of the 12mm, I think it's a bit premature to come to any conclusions about the comparative performance of two yet-to-be-released lenses.

hiepphotog: I did, when I used the word rectilinear. The no-distortion thing is a misnomer anyway, since it's clear this isn't perfectly corrected for distortion (as is the case with almost every lens ever released, including the most expensive UWA primes available). The "no distortion" part is really just telegraphing that this is a rectilinear and not fisheye lens. So don't get your hopes up for something magical that doesn't exist.

As with all lenses I'm looking at these days it will come down to size, cost, performance. If I can switch out my 16-35 for a 12mm and 18mm prime, I'm game.

Feb 19, 2016 at 02:09 AM

Vcize
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

This is going to be available for A-mount as well, right? In that case I think the size is going to disappoint. Isn't it pretty much SOP when releasing an A-mount and FE mount lens at this point to just slap essentially a built-in FE adapter on the A-mount and call it a day? Certainly seems like this will be a DSLR sized lens and then some.

Feb 19, 2016 at 02:14 AM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

from the link: lens size (diameter / length) of about Φ74.8 × 82.2毫米 weight about 570 grams

Feb 19, 2016 at 02:49 AM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

part of this google translated post:
Lens specifications are as follows (near 0 distortion, so named for the ZERO-D) lens number ZERO-D 12mmF2.8 focal distance 12mm Aperture 2.8 FOV 121.96 Lens Construction 10 groups 16 (2 aspherical glass, anomalous dispersion glass 3 gold) diaphragm blades 7 minimum aperture 22 closest shooting distance (object-image distance) 18cm maximum magnification of 0.2 times drive manual focus (MF) can not filter diameter lens size (diameter / length) of about Φ74.8 × 82.2毫米 weight about 570 grams

Feb 19, 2016 at 02:51 AM

justruss
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

Vcize wrote:
This is going to be available for A-mount as well, right? In that case I think the size is going to disappoint. Isn't it pretty much SOP when releasing an A-mount and FE mount lens at this point to just slap essentially a built-in FE adapter on the A-mount and call it a day? Certainly seems like this will be a DSLR sized lens and then some.

Yeah, I don't think it will be tiny!

I'll be balancing IQ, size, cost-- against the Voightlander. The aperture is a bonus if it can come in under certain size/cost thresholds and IQ is such that the aperture is useable.

This lens strikes me as total prototype at this point, so any real consideration is going to need to be revisited when production models enter the wild and we can actually buy/test one.

I just find it exciting. I find 14mm a bit of nowhere for me. Just not my favorite FL, whereas something like a pair of 12mm and 18mm primes would thrill me.

Feb 19, 2016 at 03:59 AM

ISO1600
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

The widest I've had and gotten any use out of was 15mm. I am not sure how much I could constructively use a 12mm prime. I LOVE 18mm, really beyond that I think I'd rather have a zoom.

Still, this is very interesting, even if it is a giant A-mount lens originally.

Feb 19, 2016 at 08:13 AM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

justruss wrote:
Trogdon: Agreed.

q-w-z: Well, considering nobody has a production version of this lens available... who knows? Also, considering Voightlander hasn't released their FE-mount redesign of the 12mm, I think it's a bit premature to come to any conclusions about the comparative performance of two yet-to-be-released lenses.

hiepphotog: I did, when I used the word rectilinear. The no-distortion thing is a misnomer anyway, since it's clear this isn't perfectly corrected for distortion (as is the case with almost every lens ever released, including the most expensive UWA primes available). The "no distortion" part is really just telegraphing that this is a rectilinear and...Show more →

Rectilinear just means it's not a fish-eye. That doesn't mean no distortion... I believe this lens has no optical distortion; that is, straight line will remain straight. Perspective distortion would always be there. They took a wall test shot showing straight line, but some suspected that they corrected in post. 12mm without distortion is huge, but there must be tremendous trade-off in the corner resolution.

Feb 19, 2016 at 09:07 AM

ISO1600
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

If they corrected in post, they didn't do a very good job. A quick glance at that picture still showed a tiny bit of distortion. I'm thinking they didn't correct, and it's a very low distortion lens.

Feb 19, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Paul Mo
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

One to watch for sure - give it a couple of months or so and see what decent photogs are doing with it.

Feb 19, 2016 at 11:25 AM

rji2goleez
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

I downloaded a couple of images from the flicker site. Looking at them 1:1 in LR, the corners look pretty damn good for any UWA . . . not perfect but nicer than a lot of other stuff not nearly as wide. Interesting indeed.

Feb 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM

justruss
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

hiepphotog wrote:
Rectilinear just means it's not a fish-eye. That doesn't mean no distortion... I believe this lens has no optical distortion; that is, straight line will remain straight. Perspective distortion would always be there. They took a wall test shot showing straight line, but some suspected that they corrected in post. 12mm without distortion is huge, but there must be tremendous trade-off in the corner resolution.

If you think this is a 12mm lens without pincussion or barrel distortion, I think you need to recalibrate your expectations. They are talking about a non-Fisheye, UWA prime and referring to "zero distortion" to emphasize that this is a non-fisheye (that is to say, rectilinear) lens.

I'll believe in a 12mm FF lens without any pincussion or barrel distortion on the day I see one...

Feb 20, 2016 at 04:57 AM

justruss
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

ISO1600 wrote:
If they corrected in post, they didn't do a very good job. A quick glance at that picture still showed a tiny bit of distortion. I'm thinking they didn't correct, and it's a very low distortion lens.

Indeed, it's rectinlinear lens with some emphasis put into keeping distortion minimal. But it's not going to be distortion free (of course we're not taking about perspective distortion).

Feb 20, 2016 at 04:58 AM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

justruss wrote:
If you think this is a 12mm lens without pincussion or barrel distortion, I think you need to recalibrate your expectations. They are talking about a non-Fisheye, UWA prime and referring to "zero distortion" to emphasize that this is a non-fisheye (that is to say, rectilinear) lens.

I'll believe in a 12mm FF lens without any pincussion or barrel distortion on the day I see one...

I don't have any expectation for this lens, but that is what they advertise. I don't think anyone would say zero distortion to mean a rectilinear lens. Please point out another lens that was advertised as zero distortion when they meant rectilinear. I have not seen one. It is either a fish-eye or it's not.

Of course, there is a threshold to say things like zero distortion. Zeiss and Leica say it all the time, like below 1% or 0.5%. Hologon 16 is damn near distortion free.

Feb 20, 2016 at 09:56 AM

justruss
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

hiepphotog wrote:
I don't have any expectation for this lens, but that is what they advertise. I don't think anyone would say zero distortion to mean a rectilinear lens. Please point out another lens that was advertised as zero distortion when they meant rectilinear. I have not seen one. It is either a fish-eye or it's not.

Of course, there is a threshold to say things like zero distortion. Zeiss and Leica say it all the time, like below 1% or 0.5%. Hologon 16 is damn near distortion free.

And a lot of lenses are marketed as APO that are not...

The Hologon is an f/8 lens covering a significantly narrower angle-- produced by one of the most famous, experienced optic designers in the history of photography!

I don't care what LAOWA claim about this thing in marketing/naming materials. They aren't going to match Hologon distortion (or get close to it) at such wider aperture AND focal length.

It. Just. Won't. Happen.

But please, feel free to bookmark this comment and rub it in my face if I can buy this lens for <$1K and it has extremely low distortion, high IQ, and maintains the prototype 12mm and f/2.8 specs. I'll be happy to have been wrong, since I'll probably buy the lens.

Instead I expect something in the $500-$700 price range, with moderate distortion, good but not amazing IQ.

Feb 20, 2016 at 10:44 AM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

justruss wrote:
And a lot of lenses are marketed as APO that are not...

The Hologon is an f/8 lens covering a significantly narrower angle-- produced by one of the most famous, experienced optic designers in the history of photography!

I don't care what LAOWA claim about this thing in marketing/naming materials. They aren't going to match Hologon distortion (or get close to it) at such wider aperture AND focal length.

It. Just. Won't. Happen.

But please, feel free to bookmark this comment and rub it in my face if I can buy this lens for <$1K and it has extremely low distortion, high...Show more →

, it's just not my style to rub it in anyone face. My point is more about their zero distortion means "zero" distortion, by their definition at least. I still wonder what the resolution would be like in the corners at wider aperture. Have a 15 already so not too interested in this lens.

Feb 20, 2016 at 10:58 AM

justruss
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · LAOWA/Venus 12mm f/2.8

It's OK-- I'd like THAT rubbed in my face, because I'd want to buy the lens!

I think both of us can only guess what they mean by that-- and then whether what they mean by it should be taken seriously. So it's definitely speculation on my side as well.

I really think they're just telegraphing that it's rectilinear. After all, enough distortion and you can effectively call it a fisheye...

If they really produce a zero distortion lens, I'm predicting not just mediocre corner performance, but outright low resolution in the periphery. Distortion is a cheap way to get sharp periphery-- particularly if you're going for a wide aperture. This is an extreme lens: 12mm, and f/2.8. To get fantastic distortion characteristics means something(s) gotta give: either astronomical price or bad IQ.

I'd rather have to correct a little distortion LR.

Feb 20, 2016 at 11:07 AM

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