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Archive 2016 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

jeffersoncasey wrote:
I don't shoot photo for living, so I'm perfectly fine with RX1R. A9 was great, especially shooting portraits, rarely miss a shot, and capturing the right moment in split second the camera will react instantly. Can't do that with RX1R though, gonna miss the performance of the speed demon.

Now that I have RX1R in hand side by side with the A9 and distagon. I even questioned myself why am I wanted to lug around a heavy brick in the first place...

If you are referring to the RX1R, I would agree that AF is a bit lacking and unfortunately there is no EyeAF.
However, with the RX1RII, AF is snappier and EyeAF works great for environment portraits. The A9 has undoubtedly the fastest AF speed and coverage but it's perhaps a bit overkill for portraits or slow moving people. On top of that we are talking 42MP vs 24MP.

Jul 22, 2018 at 11:23 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Fred Miranda wrote:
If you are referring to the RX1R, I would agree that AF is a bit lacking and unfortunately there is no EyeAF.
However, with the RX1RII, AF is snappier and EyeAF works great for environment portraits. The A9 has undoubtedly the fastest AF speed and coverage but it's perhaps a bit overkill for portraits or slow moving people. On top of that we are talking 42MP vs 24MP.

I knew about the upgrades much too well but something about the original version render the image and I don't quite see it on the mark ii, ever since it's first introduced.

I even went to Guy's forum and compare the two seperated threads for R and Rii earlier just now. I tried hard to convince myself to get the Rii but I don't dig the images from Rii as much as I do with the R. Moreover, the crisp file from the 24mp files seems to work just fine for me.

I've seen discussions about the rendering of the Leica M9 vs M240 vs M10, too. There's at least one guy who I know in real life opted for the M240 over the newer and better M10.

Been trying hard to find comparison of the R and Rii. So far I have not seen any conclusive results. I'll be very happy to have someone to prove me wrong!

PS: I shoot portraits a little different, my keepers are usually those moments before and after the pose where the people felt the most comfortable. So the A9 is pretty much effortless.

Jul 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

jeffersoncasey wrote:
I knew about the upgrades much too well but something about the original version render the image and I don't quite see it on the mark ii, ever since it's first introduced.

I even went to Guy's forum and compare the two seperated threads for R and Rii earlier just now. I tried hard to convince myself to get the Rii but I don't dig the images from Rii as much as I do with the R. Moreover, the crisp file from the 24mp files seems to work just fine for me.

I've seen discussions about the rendering of the Leica...Show more →

I think the sensor and extra resolution makes a difference in color, DR and fine detail for you when comparing RAW files side by side and I agree there is a difference in the overall rendering.
The jpeg output is also a bit different between the two cameras with deeper reds and greens for the RX1. IMO, the new RX1RII outputs very similarly to the A7RII and III bodies.

Jul 22, 2018 at 12:21 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Fred Miranda wrote:
I think the sensor and extra resolution makes a difference in color, DR and fine detail for you when comparing RAW files side by side and I agree there is a difference in the overall rendering.
The jpeg output is also a bit different between the two cameras with deeper reds and greens for the RX1. IMO, the new RX1RII outputs very similarly to the A7RII and III bodies.

I don't disagree, Fred. The Rii is definitely objectively better, all the price difference for an upgrade is well worth the asking price. But personally the Rii output just doesn't wow me as much as the R does. The R output still amaze me up till today like it did back in 2013. Hard to describe in words, the R render richer colors compared to what I've seen on the Rii, but rich without being over saturated.

Basically I just love what I saw from the original.

Jul 22, 2018 at 01:03 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

xpfloyd wrote:
I just bought a used Rx1r ii this morning so no doubt the mkiii will be announced tomorrow

I believe the new RX1 series it will announced on September/October this year and here is my logic:

The original RX1 was announced on September 2012. The RX1R a year later, but there were no changes to the camera, except for the removal of the AA filter so that didn't really count. Therefore, it looks like the development cycle for the RX1 series is about 3 years...

If that's so, the RX1R II was announced on October 2015, so the new RX1R III will be released within 2 or 3 months from today.

Jul 22, 2018 at 05:17 PM

AdaptedLenses
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

But what will it be? They don’t have a “better” sensor unless they add the full a9 stacked tech to the a7r3 sensor?

Personally I’d rather see an RX1 MkII with the A7III sensor for a lower price than the RX1RII. But that’s a pipe dream.

One thing that could use work, in brief time with the RII I was a bit disappointed in AF speed which seemed to be a lens limitation.

Fred Miranda wrote:
I believe the new RX1 series it will announced on September/October this year and here is my logic:

The original RX1 was announced on September 2012. The RX1R a year later, but there were no changes to the camera, except for the removal of the AA filter so that didn't really count. Therefore, it looks like the development cycle for the RX1 series is about 3 years...

If that's so, the RX1R II was announced on October 2015, so the new RX1R III will be released within 2 or 3 months from today.

Jul 22, 2018 at 06:36 PM

chez
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Personally I'd rather see their MF sensor in a nice compact camera...now we'd be talking.

Jul 22, 2018 at 06:39 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Mathieu18 wrote:
But what will it be? They don’t have a “better” sensor unless they add the full a9 stacked tech to the a7r3 sensor?

Personally I’d rather see an RX1 MkII with the A7III sensor for a lower price than the RX1RII. But that’s a pipe dream.

One thing that could use work, in brief time with the RII I was a bit disappointed in AF speed which seemed to be a lens limitation.

The RX1RII's main features were transplants from the A7RII...So, it didn't have a new sensor and/or processor...
If the new RX1RIII follows the RX1RII's pattern, here are the specs:
(I just consulted my crystal ball)

Same sensor as A7RIII
Front-end LSI to increase the readout from the image sensor
higher resolution EVF
Improved image processing system with A9 AF algorithms for faster AF tracking and reliable EyeAF.
399 phase-detection AF points and 425 contrast-detection AF
4K for video
Upgraded menu system (same as new cameras)
A small grip which allows the RX1R III to have a bigger battery pack (Perhaps the NP-FW50)
10 fps (same as A7RIII)
Larger buffer
USB-C terminal
A surprise feature (??) eg.: joystick, full articulated LCD, crop mode, built-in ND...
Unfortunately no Apps
Announcement: Sept/Oct 2018
Price: $3,300

Basically it will function like a A7RIII in a compact full frame body with a capable 35mm f/2 lens glued on it.

I don't think Sony will touch the lens, so it's likely they will use the same Sonnar 35/2 for the Mark III.

OR the unthinkable:
They could surprise us with a new curved sensor and a new very compact 35/2 lens but that's really a pipe dream.

Jul 22, 2018 at 07:46 PM

AdaptedLenses
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Personally I don’t think we’ll see that camera. They don’t address much and don’t add much, I think it’d be a tough sale, though maybe the battery. We’re it not for the joystick and new battery the A7RIII would have had difficulty and that gets away from the RX1 ideal, and creates more engineering (the RX1RII was basically just a new sensor). Happy to be wrong, but Sony has slowed its pace of release to bring out useful new features each time.

Fred Miranda wrote:
The RX1RII's main features were transplants from the A7RII...So, it didn't have a new sensor and/or processor...
If the new RX1RIII follows the RX1RII's pattern, here are the specs:
(I just consulted my crystal ball)

Same sensor as A7RIII
Front-end LSI to increase the readout from the image sensor
higher resolution EVF
Improved image processing system with A9 AF algorithms for faster AF tracking and reliable EyeAF.
399 phase-detection AF points and 425 contrast-detection AF
4K for video
Upgraded menu system (same as new cameras)
A small grip which allows the RX1R III to have a bigger battery pack (like the one used on the A7RII)
10 fps (same as A7RIII)
Larger buffer
USB-C terminal
A surprise feature (??)
Unfortunately no Apps
Announcement: Sept/Oct 2018
Price: $3,300

...Show more →

Jul 22, 2018 at 09:00 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

The small form factor of the RX1 series is hard to beat. Higher end spec like 4k video and larger buffer need a more powerful processor to handle the tech. Then you need larger battery to power the tech. Then you need a larger body to accommodate those.

I'm not holding my breath for a same design with new tech, perhaps they would release a completely new design, and perhaps a f1.4 or 1.8 with a curved sensor since the lens can be made smaller?

Jul 22, 2018 at 09:33 PM

realVivek
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I want to see some fundamental flaws rectified.

The front end of the lens needs better sealing to keep the dust away.

Go back to the design of the image review button in RX1.

Better heat dissipation.

Get rid of the variable AA filter.

Do not bring out any cameras with light leaks and such.

Drop the fake blue label and the zheiss tax.

Jul 23, 2018 at 03:25 AM

jhinkey
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

It will be hard to add some desired features (e.g., larger battery size, IBIS, for instance) and keep the size the same. However there are plenty of other things they can do and the size should stay the same - things like a higher capacity, but same size battery, more efficient electronics, better rear controls layout, more efficient EVF and LCD screens, etc.

Not sure what tweaks they could make to the lens as Fred points out.

Who knows if we'll even ever get a MKIII version

Jul 23, 2018 at 09:56 AM

xpfloyd
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

It will be out of my price range for a fixed lens camera anyway so I will make do with the the rx1rii in the mean time

Fred Miranda wrote:
I believe the new RX1 series it will announced on September/October this year and here is my logic:

The original RX1 was announced on September 2012. The RX1R a year later, but there were no changes to the camera, except for the removal of the AA filter so that didn't really count. Therefore, it looks like the development cycle for the RX1 series is about 3 years...

If that's so, the RX1R II was announced on October 2015, so the new RX1R III will be released within 2 or 3 months from today.

Jul 23, 2018 at 10:39 PM

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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I just picked up an original RX1. For my work, having the pop up flash was more exciting than having a built in EVF.

I’d love if they can one day actually produce the curved sensor with 35mm 1.8 that was patented a few years back. Sony has already produced curved sensors, just none near the size of an FF sensor. That would be about the only thing that could really entice me to upgrade from the mark I model.

Jul 24, 2018 at 11:30 AM

jhinkey
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

The EVF of the RX1RII is just indispensable for me - both because I'm incredibly far sighted with my glasses (or contacts) and when in bright outdoor light which renders the rear LCD unusable.

Again, hopefully Sony comes out with a refresh. Then those of us willing to spend some $$ on the new model will be happy and those wanting to have the RX1RII at a reduced price will be happy too.

Jul 24, 2018 at 12:16 PM

Audii-Dudii
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

trogdon wrote:
I just picked up an original RX1. For my work, having the pop up flash was more exciting than having a built in EVF.

I’d love if they can one day actually produce the curved sensor with 35mm 1.8 that was patented a few years back. Sony has already produced curved sensors, just none near the size of an FF sensor. That would be about the only thing that could really entice me to upgrade from the mark I model.

Hear, hear! I'm of a similar mind as you, because without a pop-up flash, pretty much any camera is substantially less useful to me for the type of photography I typically do with my RX1.

Sure, I can add an external flash, but that changes everything about how the camera works and how it feels in my hand, which is the reason why the RX1RII was a non-starter for me.

And it's also the reason why the RX1RIII will likely be a non-starter for me as well if Sony leaves this feature off ... again.

Jul 24, 2018 at 12:57 PM

trstahly
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I would have a hard time ponying up $3,300 for one if they do not improve the sensor. The camera was kind of revolutionary when it came out with 42MP and is still quite good but lacking all the things the camera needs to bring it into the year 2018.

They at least should incorporate a stacked sensor or preferrably a 54 to 60MP sensor and crop modes so that camera which is quite expensive has more versatility and a pop up flash.

A niche camera at this price level needs to be more versatile IMO for it to sell in the numbers it should.

Sony would be at minimal risk of canabalizing sales of other FF because it is still a RX1 with a fixed lens. But they would entice many more FF shooters to pick one up IMO.

Jul 24, 2018 at 12:58 PM

Audii-Dudii
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

trstahly wrote:
I would have a hard time ponying up $3,300 for one if they do not improve the sensor. The camera was kind of revolutionary when it came out with 42MP and is still quite good but lacking all the things the camera needs to bring it into the year 2018.

They at least should incorporate a stacked sensor or preferrably a 54 to 60MP sensor and crop modes so that camera which is quite expensive has more versatility and a pop up flash.

I would be okay with Sony incorporating these suggestions.

A niche camera at this price level needs to be more versatile IMO for it to sell in the numbers it should.

But that's the thing about niche cameras: They're not supposed to be all things to all photographers nor are they supposed to sell in large numbers (because despite their high prices, they're often loss-leaders and the manufacturer actually loses money on each one they sell.) If they are all things to all photographers or they do sell in large numbers, then I would argue the manufacturer hasn't optimized them enough for the niche they were supposed to occupy.

Sony would be at minimal risk of canabalizing sales of other FF because it is still a RX1 with a fixed lens. But they would entice many more FF shooters to pick one up IMO.

I think Sony hit the nail directly on the head with the first generation RX1: It was a small, high-performance camera that was deliberately aimed at a niche market and intended to showcase Sony's technological prowess and garner it some favorable press and street cred.

As such, the RX1RIII should be released similarly, with a cutting-edge sensor -- the curved sensor they patented would seem to be an obvious choice for this camera -- and showcase Sony's technological prowess as of today, nearly six years after the original RX1 was released.

But what do I know, eh? My educational background is engineering and economics, not marketing....

Jul 24, 2018 at 01:31 PM

geoffreyg
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I've had the RX1 for several years, and use it largely as a travel and documentation camera for drawing archives, used (under difficult condition) to photograph large engineering drawings, usually handheld, f8 (need some DOF) at 1/125 (no shake), ISO 2500 (min avail for the settings chosen). And the camera performs wonderfully. In fact, it is hard to beat the lens/camera combination. It just goes into difficult situations and never misses a beat - ever. It is the most incredible camera this way.

That said, I have a hard time getting "art" shots from the camera. I don't know if user interface, shoot-from-the-screen or (not likely) sensor. But it just doesn't sing for me. I went back to an M240 for art shots. Something about composition and choosing f stops just seems more natural.

So... love the RX1, but with a bit of confusion. Its a great camera.

Jul 24, 2018 at 01:35 PM

trstahly
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Agree in part but it sure does not hurt for a camera that is almost three years old with so many things that really could use updating to make the camera slightly more useful. A pop up flash hurts nothing other than maybe sales of a RX100Va but helps many of us justify the expense of the camera.

Same with having a more useful crop mode with higher MP so you end up with a really good 50-55mm image and even fudge to 70 or 75mm.

Doesnt take one thing away from the camera that the loyal RX1 owners like but adds some flexiblity at no added anything. You do not have to use the flash or crop modes.

Jul 24, 2018 at 02:13 PM

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