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Archive 2016 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

MrTMan
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Truly a phenomenal lens. I've shot with the 35/1.4, the 35/2.8 and the Loxia 35, and from what I've seen, the RX1/RII really seems to trump them all.

Jul 20, 2018 at 11:30 AM

Audii-Dudii
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

jeffersoncasey wrote:
And why the original RX1R, not the mark ii?

Or for that matter, the original RX1?

I intentionally chose to buy an RX1 instead of an RX1R because when I compared them, I found that I preferred the files from the one with an AA filter to the one without it ... who knew?!

Jul 20, 2018 at 12:14 PM

stevesanacore
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Mathieu18 wrote:
It's been discussed many times, the lens can't be offered in e-mount. It sits right on the sensor and the rear element is too large to fit into the FE mount.

Im sure Zeiss, (with or without Sony), could design a 35mm f2 Sonnar for the FE mount with similar properties. The question is why aren't they doing it

? Maybe they feel there are too many 35mm options already but unfortunately they missed the most important one IMO.

Jul 21, 2018 at 07:56 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

stevesanacore wrote:
Im sure Zeiss, (with or without Sony), could design a 35mm f2 Sonnar for the FE mount with similar properties. The question is why aren't they doing it

? Maybe they feel there are too many 35mm options already but unfortunately they missed the most important one IMO.

It's often discussed in many forums as well as here. The rear element is so close to the lens, I can imagine a slight misalignment can result in bad optical decentering and tilting. Hence the hand assembled RX1R, one by one in Japan. Each camera will receive fine tuning of the sensor and lens angle to ensure optimum performance.

FM is probably a forum where we happily discuss about lens decentering. We can expect a worst phenomenon than the 35mm 1.4 Distagon ZA, and people probably going to find them self doing endless returns just to get a perfectly centered lens - slim chance, unfortunately. Different sensor stacking glasses and thickness, variable mount wear and tear resulting in tilts. Pretty chaotic if you ask me.

Jul 21, 2018 at 11:36 AM

AdaptedLenses
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

That’s the million dollar question. It’s my belief Sony won’t allow it, to protect existing sales, whether it’s the 35/1.4, 35/2.8, RX1 or Loxia I don’t know. Maybe they’re saving it for themselves. We’ll probably see one some day but who knows.

stevesanacore wrote:
Im sure Zeiss, (with or without Sony), could design a 35mm f2 Sonnar for the FE mount with similar properties. The question is why aren't they doing it

? Maybe they feel there are too many 35mm options already but unfortunately they missed the most important one IMO.

Jul 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I think Steve is right. Yes, Zeiss could develop a 35mm f/2 E-mount with similar rendering characteristics but because of the longer flange distance, it will likely be bigger. The RX1's Sonnar requires an extreme optical design with very tight tolerance and that's the main reason for its high price since it can only be assembled in Japan by expert technicians.

Perhaps the new Batis 40mm f/2 will have similar rendering. We will see.

Regarding repair: It's possible to replace the RX1 lens ourselves but it looks like shim thickness varies from camera to camera depending on the lens mount and sensor parallelism. The new lens would work but perhaps centering would not be perfect after the repair.

Here is a diagram showing the different parts for shim thickness require for each individual RX1:

Jul 21, 2018 at 12:38 PM

realVivek
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Mathieu18 wrote:
Maybe they’re saving it for themselves.

They can do it and quite well. I hope they do soon and without the fake blue sticker.

Jul 21, 2018 at 06:13 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Fred Miranda wrote:
I think Steve is right. Yes, Zeiss could develop a 35mm f/2 E-mount but it won't quite match the rendering characteristics of the RX1 Sonnar 35/2. The latter requires an extreme optical design with very tight tolerance and that's the main reason for its high price since it can only be assembled in Japan by expert technicians.

So, although not able to match the RX1 Sonnar, Zeiss could develop a 35/2 FE that comes close, especially in terms of aberration control where the RX1 Sonnar is not that corrected. (but it helps with rendering)

I believe this attempt could be in...Show more →
That's what I thought too, seeing people having their RX1 replaced the entire lens assembly.

RX1 has always have been a great concept, but it's less likely to stand the test of time, mechanical wise. Whole camera will be busted once the lens fail, or the sensor.

Question is, does Sony actually equipped with the right tools and right technician to deal with RX1 lens replacement, in every market they sell the camera? Much like exotic cars, one cannot expect average Joe to be able to service or repair it.

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:08 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

By the way guys, I did some side by side comparison last night after getting the RX1R, pitting it against the 35mm 1.4 distagon.

To my surprise, apart from color processing, the bokeh looks identical. Even the rendering looks 98% same with test shots in my bedroom. I thought I'll see huge differences, they are so close that when comparing the OOF area I forgotten which is ehich, eventually.

Other than that, A9 sometimes saturate certain colors slightly more which makes it ever so slightly less desirable where it should look a little more muted which RX1R captured well. Then the A9 metering seems to choose a slightly brighter exposure, probably due to the different vignetting of the lens. And I'm testing just jpegs.

I'll need to go out to test them again when the sun is up. Very, very interesting!

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:35 PM

genji
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

realVivek wrote:
They can do it and quite well. I hope they do soon and without the fake blue sticker.

The fake blue sticker indeed -- a stroke of marketing genius by Sony and a bit of extra cash for Zeiss.

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:54 PM

AdaptedLenses
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

It’s been mentioned before but not seen it conclusively proven. But always felt the BSI sensor of the newer cameras had a different color palette. Be interesting to run that with an A7II.

jeffersoncasey wrote:
By the way guys, I did some side by side comparison last night after getting the RX1R, pitting it against the 35mm 1.4 distagon.

To my surprise, apart from color processing, the bokeh looks identical. Even the rendering looks 98% same with test shots in my bedroom. I thought I'll see huge differences, they are so close that when comparing the OOF area I forgotten which is ehich, eventually.

Other than that, A9 sometimes saturate certain colors slightly more which makes it ever so slightly less desirable where it should look a little more muted which RX1R captured well. Then the A9...Show more →

Jul 21, 2018 at 09:55 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Mathieu18 wrote:
It’s been mentioned before but not seen it conclusively proven. But always felt the BSI sensor of the newer cameras had a different color palette. Be interesting to run that with an A7II.

And the 3rd gen technology which is the stacked sensor is also different from the BSI sensor, too.

_____________________

Further testing was done coomparing the RX1R against 35mm 1.4 distagon

Now I finally understood why Fred always specifically asked for shooting at mid distance. The Distagon couldn't touch the Sonnar on the RX1R. It's not even close. Mid distance bokeh is so smooth on the RX1R but distagon already showing busy outlines on the bokeh.

So, case close. I'm going to stick to this gem from now onwards. It's a pretty long and informative journey in search of the perfect 35mm lens. Look no further, the RX1 series it is. Hopefully the RX1R will last until mark iii!

Jul 22, 2018 at 02:48 AM

xpfloyd
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

I just bought a used Rx1r ii this morning so no doubt the mkiii will be announced tomorrow

Jul 22, 2018 at 03:50 AM

realVivek
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

At our expense. Blood suckers.

genji wrote:
The fake blue sticker indeed -- a stroke of marketing genius by Sony and a bit of extra cash for Zeiss.

Jul 22, 2018 at 04:08 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

For anyone who's interested, here's a set of comparing the two lens. There're differences in color signature but not sure I prefer one over the other. However, the bokeh is really revealing. Both are untouched SOOC jpeg.

My best attempt on framing both the same, with only tilt difference:

Both lens are equally sharp, and deeper contrast on the Distagon:

Oops for the Distagon bokeh

...and got worse towards the edge

Jul 22, 2018 at 09:28 AM

trstahly
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Thanks Jeff I feel the same way.

The RX1 has a marvelous lens there is no doubt I have one. But I greately prefer using my a7rIII or A9 with better AF and easier to maniulate and handle bodies with my Distagon any day.

The extra speed and low light capability is another plus.

Jul 22, 2018 at 10:01 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

jeffersoncasey wrote:
For anyone who's interested, here's a set of comparing the two lens. There're differences in color signature but not sure I prefer one over the other. However, the bokeh is really revealing. Both are untouched SOOC jpeg.

My best attempt on framing both the same, with only tilt difference:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/922/42662788955_a98c76fcf2_h.jpg

Both lens are equally sharp, and deeper contrast on the Distagon:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/838/42850580104_213e8293d0_h.jpg

Oops for the Distagon bokeh
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/42850577254_fb9572f858_h.jpg

...and got worse towards the edge
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1770/42662784945_ace2efa99d_h.jpg

I've tested many 35mm lenses and to my eyes, only the Distagon ZE/ZF 35/1.4 @f/2 classic approaches the smoothness of the RX1's Sonnar bokeh at all distances. However, it's not as sharp even stopped down.

The FE 35/1.4 ZA is the closest native lens to the Sonnar but its OOF rendering can be harsh depending on the background and distance. To my surprise, even the 16-35/2.8 GM @35/2.8's rendering is smoother than the 35/1.4 ZA @f/2.8 and the difference is noticeable.

Jul 22, 2018 at 10:26 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

trstahly wrote:
Thanks Jeff I feel the same way.

The RX1 has a marvelous lens there is no doubt I have one. But I greately prefer using my a7rIII or A9 with better AF and easier to maniulate and handle bodies with my Distagon any day.

The extra speed and low light capability is another plus.

I don't shoot photo for living, so I'm perfectly fine with RX1R. A9 was great, especially shooting portraits, rarely miss a shot, and capturing the right moment in split second the camera will react instantly. Can't do that with RX1R though, gonna miss the performance of the speed demon.

Now that I have RX1R in hand side by side with the A9 and distagon. I even questioned myself why am I wanted to lug around a heavy brick in the first place...

Jul 22, 2018 at 10:36 AM

trstahly
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

You just said why

Jul 22, 2018 at 10:38 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · A7RII+35 2.8 or RX1RII ?

Fred Miranda wrote:
I've tested many 35mm lenses and to my eyes, only the Distagon ZE/ZF 35/1.4 @f/2 classic approaches the smoothness of the RX1's Sonnar bokeh at all distances. However, it's not as sharp even stopped down.

The FE 35/1.4 ZA is the closest native lens to the Sonnar but its OOF rendering can be harsh depending on the background and distance. To my surprise, even the 16-35/2.8 GM @35//2.8's rendering is smoother than the 35/1.4 ZA @f/2.8 and the difference is noticeable.

I actually noticed the distracting bokeh on certain shots when I first got the good copy too. It drew attentions away from the supposedly sharp and 3D rendering of the subject.

I'm in quite a relieve actually, knowing that I can settle on a rather slow operating camera but giving superb IQ, with lots of weight savings. Also the long forgotten unsuspicious look that the RX1 give so lugging it around naked don't draw any serious attention at all. Very comfortable bringing it around everywhere with me.

By the way, I'm digging the sun star of the Sonnar but most people seems to prefer well defined star, anyone sharing the same preference as me?

Jul 22, 2018 at 11:16 AM

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