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Archive 2015 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

robgo2
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

I currently own a Contax G 90/2.8 which produces excellent images on an A7-II, but I have a potential opportunity to acquire a Leica 90-M Elmarit. So, I would be interested in opinions regarding the relative benefits of the two lenses. One advantage of the Elmarit is that it has its own manual focusing ring, but I am more interested in sharpness, color, rendering qualities and the like. What can I expect from the Elmarit? Will it be substantially better?

On a somewhat related topic, what do people think is the likelihood that Zeiss will eventually come out with a Loxia 90/2.8? To me, it seems like a logical progression upward from 21mm, 35mm, 50mm...

Thanks,
Rob

Dec 30, 2015 at 05:03 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Both are excellent lenses. I haven had the R version of the Elmarit and it performs very well. I would pick the Elmarit but mainly for its ergonomics. I don't think you will see much difference in sharpness, but you will in colour with both showing the typical colours for the brand--I like both even though I see them as different. IMO, the Elmari's bokeh is slightly better and is has perhaps a little less CA stopped down, but there isn't a lot to that either.

With regard to the Loxia, I think the next one will be a 28mm (the only 28mm is the Sony (non-G non-Zeiss), whereas Zeiss has a Batis 85mm, so I don't expect an 85 or 90 Loxia just yet). I don't expect any other Loxia lenses in 2016, but I wouldn't be surprised by an 85 or 90 f/2.8 in 2017, but it is far from a sure thing.

Dec 31, 2015 at 12:14 AM

robgo2
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Steve Spencer wrote:
Both are excellent lenses. I haven had the R version of the Elmarit and it performs very well. I would pick the Elmarit but mainly for its ergonomics. I don't think you will see much difference in sharpness, but you will in colour with both showing the typical colours for the brand--I like both even though I see them as different. IMO, the Elmari's bokeh is slightly better and is has perhaps a little less CA stopped down, but there isn't a lot to that either.

With regard to the Loxia, I think the next one will be a...Show more →

Thanks for your comments on the Elmarit.

Regarding the likely progression of the Loxia line, a 28mm lens would be very close to the Batis 25. It seems to me that Zeiss is developing the two lines separately for different users with different wants and needs.

Rob

Dec 31, 2015 at 12:46 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

robgo2 wrote:
Thanks for your comments on the Elmarit.

Regarding the likely progression of the Loxia line, a 28mm lens would be very close to the Batis 25. It seems to me that Zeiss is developing the two lines separately for different users with different wants and needs.

Rob

A 28mm is not nearly as close to a 25mm as a 90mm is to an 85mm. Zeiss has quite often had 25mm and 28mm lenses in the same line, but never had both 85mm and 90mm in the same line. I think if you want to guess where the Loxia line is going, then a good place to look is the Contax G line. It has 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 45mm, and 90mm primes, plus and f/8 16mm. I am guessing the Loxia line will be 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and either 85mm or 90mm. Interestingly the Contax G lenses were AF in a predominantly MF rangefinder world, whereas the Loxia are MF in a predominantly AF E mount world, but the Contax G lenses provided pretty decent coverage for those who used the system and I think the Loxia lenses can do the same for those who like MF and shoot E mount.

Dec 31, 2015 at 08:43 AM

robgo2
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Steve Spencer wrote:
A 28mm is not nearly as close to a 25mm as a 90mm is to an 85mm. Zeiss has quite often had 25mm and 28mm lenses in the same line, but never had both 85mm and 90mm in the same line. I think if you want to guess where the Loxia line is going, then a good place to look is the Contax G line. It has 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 45mm, and 90mm primes, plus and f/8 16mm. I am guessing the Loxia line will be 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and either 85mm or 90mm. Interestingly the Contax G...Show more →

Steve,

We are both speculating here. Only Zeiss knows the Loxia roadmap, and its decisions will be based on estimates of market demand, developmental costs and price points. Mark me down as wanting a short tele/portrait lens first.

As an aside, I had an opportunity to compare the Contax G 90/2.8 to the Batis 85 for a few portraits the other day. Both were shot at f2.8. There is no doubt that the Baits is sharper at that aperture, but its rendering is significantly flatter. There is also no doubt that I preferred the look of the Contax portraits, and that is why I am interested in other alternative portrait lenses, such as the Elmarit or a future Loxia. I would happily stick with the Contax forever, were it not for the somewhat awkward adapter. Such a small inconvenience to fuss over.

Rob

Dec 31, 2015 at 11:50 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

robgo2 wrote:
Steve,

We are both speculating here. Only Zeiss knows the Loxia roadmap, and its decisions will be based on estimates of market demand, developmental costs and price points. Mark me down as wanting a short tele/portrait lens first.

As an aside, I had an opportunity to compare the Contax G 90/2.8 to the Batis 85 for a few portraits the other day. Both were shot at f2.8. There is no doubt that the Baits is sharper at that aperture, but its rendering is significantly flatter. There is also no doubt that I preferred the look of the Contax portraits, and that is...Show more →

Rob,

Then you might consider the Contax/Yashica mount Zeiss 85 f/2.8. It is basically the same lens as the Contax G 90 f/2.8 (the C/Y is actually 87.6mm) and they have nearly identical designs and MTF charts. The advantage of the C/Y mount is you get to use a real MF ring for focussing instead of the awkward adapter for the Contax G lenses. That could suit your purposes very well until you find out what the fourth and fifth Loxia are going to be (Zeiss has committed to 5 Loxia lenses, but there many not be any more than that). You may even decide you don't want a Loxia 85 or 90 when it comes out.

Dec 31, 2015 at 12:53 PM

robgo2
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Steve Spencer wrote:
Rob,

Then you might consider the Contax/Yashica mount Zeiss 85 f/2.8. It is basically the same lens as the Contax G 90 f/2.8 (the C/Y is actually 87.6mm) and they have nearly identical designs and MTF charts. The advantage of the C/Y mount is you get to use a real MF ring for focussing instead of the awkward adapter for the Contax G lenses. That could suit your purposes very well until you find out what the fourth and fifth Loxia are going to be (Zeiss has committed to 5 Loxia lenses, but there many not be any more than...Show more →

Steve,

Thanks for that suggestion. The CY 85 is very compact and not much heavier than the 90G. I found a mint MM copy for about $350 on eBay that I purchased. Possibly, I could have found another for less, but this one looks pristine. If I don't like it, I'm sure that I will be able to sell it at only a small loss. Mainly, I am looking forward to the improved MF experience.

Rob

Dec 31, 2015 at 05:10 PM

robgo2
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

I thought that I would provide some follow-up on the Contax-Yashica 85/2.8 (MMJ) that I recently purchased for my A7II. In a word, it is gorgeous. My copy looks as though it has never been mounted on a camera. Build quality is very good except for some very slight wobble of the aperture ring that does not affect function. I splurged and got a Novoflex adapter which fits perfectly and blends with the lens nicely. As for IQ, it is outstanding starting at f2.8. In comparison to the 90/2.8G, there is little perceivable difference, as one would expect, given the fact that they share the same optical design. Also, as expected, manual focusing with the C-Y is much more pleasurable, although the focus throw is very long from min to max. All in all, I am so happy with the new lens that I have also purchased the C-Y 28/2.8 Distagon, which is felt by many to be of comparable quality. At least I won't need to get a second adapter.

Rob

Jan 08, 2016 at 12:56 PM

waterden
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

At the end of 2014 a Zeiss representative was quoted as saying there would be two new Loxia lenses in 2015 - a wide and a tele. Well the 21/2.8 is out but no sign of a tele yet. Personally, I'd love to see a 24/25 and 85/90 Loxia because, excellent though they sound, the Batis line is large and ugly in my book and is without an aperture ring.

Jan 08, 2016 at 01:30 PM

twelveish
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Thanks for returning with a report, Rob. Very interesting to me as a CG and CY user with my A series camera. I think I would likely have traded my cg90 for the cy85 too, had I not very recently found an adapter that works for me. I've tried Kipon and various clones as well as Fotodiox over the years but always found them too fiddly. The ULATA adapter I got just before xmas is brilliant though. It's a lighter clone (and I guess design rip-off) of the Metabones and for me it's a game changer.

I have the cy35/2.8, cy50/1.7, cy135/2.8 and cg90 and am currently looking to complete the setup with something wide. If anyone would like to comment on the optical performance of the CY 25/2.8 Distagon or any decent CY mount alternatives in the 21 to 25 range, even the Yashica ones, I'd be very interested.

Jan 08, 2016 at 02:09 PM

arduluth
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

twelveish wrote:
The ULATA adapter I got just before xmas is brilliant though. It's a lighter clone (and I guess design rip-off) of the Metabones and for me it's a game changer.

Thanks for the tip on the Ulata! I've been using cheap Fotasy/Fotodiox adapters. I have my complaints, but I've gotten used to it. I've got a handful of ergonomic improvements I've been knocking around in my head - adding an adjustable hard stop for infinity and a focus tab. I remember someone making a focus tab out of Sugru glue and was going to take that path, possibly make a more durable 3D printed version if it worked out well.

Just ordered the Ulata, looking forward to trying it out!

Jan 08, 2016 at 02:57 PM

twelveish
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

I hope you'll get along with it as well as I have. Regarding the cy28, I found this thread from 5 years ago right here on FM informative. Seems I might go for the 28 after all. Would have preferred something a bit wider but people seem to pretty much unanimously and strongly prefer the 28 for image quality.

Jan 08, 2016 at 03:20 PM

arduluth
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

twelveish wrote:
I hope you'll get along with it as well as I have. Regarding the cy28, I found this thread from 5 years ago right here on FM informative. Seems I might go for the 28 after all. Would have preferred something a bit wider but people seem to pretty much unanimously and strongly prefer the 28 for image quality.

Me too! I've gotten used to focusing the Contax G lenses with the adapter, and can track movement, etc about as well as I could with an SLR lens. Even so, the ring's sharp grooves can really bother me. Also, movement gets so stiff in the cold. I'm hoping that a wider ring like the Metabones or Ulata will improve both of those issues.

People seem to love the C/Y 28mm f/2.8 Distagon. I've never used it, though the output I've seen is nice. I really liked the Contax G 28mm f/2.8 Biogon on my NEX, but it's a total mess on the A7. I've been using the Sony FE 28mm f/2 and love it.

You really don't hear much about the C/Y 25mm f/2.8 Distagon. Not unlike the C/Y Contax 35mm f/2.8. Not sure if it's just not very good, or if there are better 24-25mm options out there - some combination of more affordable, sharper, less field curvature, smaller/lighter, etc such that people pass over it.

Jan 08, 2016 at 05:37 PM

robgo2
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

twelveish wrote:
Thanks for returning with a report, Rob. Very interesting to me as a CG and CY user with my A series camera. I think I would likely have traded my cg90 for the cy85 too, had I not very recently found an adapter that works for me. I've tried Kipon and various clones as well as Fotodiox over the years but always found them too fiddly. The ULATA adapter I got just before xmas is brilliant though. It's a lighter clone (and I guess design rip-off) of the Metabones and for me it's a game changer.

I have the cy35/2.8,...Show more →
I had been using a Metabones adapter with my 90G, which works, but focusing is not smooth and is best done by reversing your left hand, so that the thumb is underneath. Though I was able to function in this manner, I found it not to my liking, which is why I went for the C-Y 85/2.8. I'm glad that I did, but if you are pleased working with your adapter, then stick with it.

Rob

Jan 08, 2016 at 07:06 PM

robgo2
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

waterden wrote:
At the end of 2014 a Zeiss representative was quoted as saying there would be two new Loxia lenses in 2015 - a wide and a tele. Well the 21/2.8 is out but no sign of a tele yet. Personally, I'd love to see a 24/25 and 85/90 Loxia because, excellent though they sound, the Batis line is large and ugly in my book and is without an aperture ring.
The main advantage of a Loxia 85 or 90 would be the electronic communication from the lens to the camera. I do miss the EXIF with legacy lenses, but at least we still get shutter speed and ISO. It's almost like shooting film.

Rob

Jan 08, 2016 at 07:13 PM

rico
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

robgo2 wrote:
... Also, as expected, manual focusing with the C-Y is much more pleasurable, although the focus throw is very long from min to max. All in all, I am so happy with the new lens that I have also purchased the C-Y 28/2.8 Distagon, which is felt by many to be of comparable quality. At least I won't need to get a second adapter.

Now that you enjoy the S85/2.8, would it be wrong of me to mention the S100/3.5?

Long throw was a customary feature when these lenses were designed, and give the broad (read "usable") DOF scale that manual-focus lenses should provide. CZ and Yashica lenses in Contax/Yashica mount are remarkably consistent in this regard. The fashion for short throw, and the resulting uselessness of DOF scales, makes most modern lenses of no interest to me. That includes Leica, although CZ ZM and Loxia aren't too awful.

I also bought Novoflex adapters recently, after years of bottom-feeding the eBay offerings. Those German machinists must be paid a fortune, but I am impressed with the result.

Jan 09, 2016 at 05:00 AM

robgo2
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

rico wrote:
I also bought Novoflex adapters recently, after years of bottom-feeding the eBay offerings. Those German machinists must be paid a fortune, but I am impressed with the result.

I have to agree on the Novoflex adapters. They are finely made and beautiful instruments in themselves and are worth a premium price, if you can afford it. But there are discounts to be found on eBay and possibly elsewhere.

Rob

Jan 09, 2016 at 06:44 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

Anyone has an opinion on the image quality of a contax g 90mm vs batis 85? Is the batis significantly better - anyone have any firsthand experience?

Jan 09, 2016 at 09:42 PM

robgo2
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

tzhang4284 wrote:
Anyone has an opinion on the image quality of a contax g 90mm vs batis 85? Is the batis significantly better - anyone have any firsthand experience?

FWIW, I did a comparison of these two lenses for several portraits. Both were shot at f2.8 on an A7II. The Batis was slightly sharper, but the images appeared flatter and less interesting. The 90G images were richer and fuller. I did not compare the lenses for any other type of image.

Rob

Jan 09, 2016 at 11:41 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Leica 90-M Elmarit vs Contax G 90 on A7-II: Seeking opinions

robgo2 wrote:
FWIW, I did a comparison of these two lenses for several portraits. Both were shot at f2.8 on an A7II. The Batis was slightly sharper, but the images appeared flatter and less interesting. The 90G images were richer and fuller. I did not compare the lenses for any other type of image.

Rob

Thanks. That's good to know - i think i will be happily holding on to my G90. The G90 works great now with the autofocus adapter and the latest firmware updates but the batis 85 still looked tempting.

Jan 10, 2016 at 12:14 AM

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