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Archive 2015 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85...

retrofocus
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

The only 85 mm lens which I ever owned was the Canon 85/1.8 EF lens. I sold it because I didn't make enough use of this focal length - for portraits, I mostly took either 50 mm or 135 mm FL on full frame instead.

Since it is very close in FL, I throw it in here as Alt alternative to the mentioned lenses - a bit slower but with more creative options is IMO the Canon 90/2.8 TSE lens. It is great for landscapes, portraits, and close-ups.

Dec 17, 2015 at 08:49 AM

uhoh7
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
I rarely use my 85's for landscape stuff cause I have a tele that the FL, so not much use for me. And I shoot stopped down anyway, so no need to carry these heaving things up mountains. And if I did use a prime, I would pick up a c/y 85 2.8 for it's size, iq and price. But yeah, it would be a more comprehensive test.

My point is not that (and you may understand this), we should all lug our portrait lenses up mountains and or shoot landscapes with them. It's that, if you climb up on a little hill or rooftop and shoot at a true infinity, where the foreground is nearly as distant as the center and you have details in at least one far corner, it's basically as good as a true bench test for sharpness across the frame. Subtle differences become very obvious.

For me that is the "foundation" of the basic performance. Of course you have numerous other important issues: color and bokeh, and some lenses are optimised for close up and won't do as well: but edge vs center performance will still show up. Good edges are often irrelevant in portraits, so I don't think that is "must have" in every situation, but it says alot about the priorities in design.

I think you have a very good copy of the 85 L

I often lusted after that lens, but on closer looks I really have not been so enamored. Your shots make it look very good. I have a bunch of 75s and 85s, but my current mainstay is the 75 Lux:

Mini in Snow by unoh7, 75 lux WO

L1026621 by unoh7, WO

cet moi by unoh7, me

L1026294 by unoh7, on Flickr

Ohio Gulch by unoh7, Here at 5.6.

Window by unoh7, f/8

Someday I should take my own advice and shoot it on my normal test range with other 85s. That's about a 1 min walk to a little hill in the middle of town. This lens is so well documented, with charts et al, that a real test had not been a priority for me. It seems good enough I have not been looking for another since I got it.

Anyway you have some very nice shots in here

Dec 17, 2015 at 09:49 AM

uhoh7
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Just a few more with the Lux:

Txt Pro by unoh7, WO on A7.mod

Trailer Bed Post by unoh7, WO on A7.mod

About 2.8 on the M9:

Blue and Silver by unoh7, on Flickr

I think I got a pretty good copy of this lens: found it here

It's a 1985, I think, and I was able to trace it's ownership back to new. It saw very little use, and to my relief it's calibrated perfect for my M9.

I add these because the R80 is supposed to be the same lens, but even a little better. But your R80 samples did not quite strike me like this lens does.

Dec 17, 2015 at 10:05 AM

sebboh
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

uhoh7 wrote:
My point is not that (and you may understand this), we should all lug our portrait lenses up mountains and or shoot landscapes with them. It's that, if you climb up on a little hill or rooftop and shoot at a true infinity, where the foreground is nearly as distant as the center and you have details in at least one far corner, it's basically as good as a true bench test for sharpness across the frame. Subtle differences become very obvious.

For me that is the "foundation" of the basic performance. Of course you have numerous other important issues:...Show more →

such tests are interesting academically, but not worth much if you are never going to use the lens to take a shot that has distant edge details in focus. as a side note, where you live makes a big difference in how easy such test are to make as well as how valuable they are. i expect such a test will be nearly impossible for me to perform for the next few months due to quirks of geography.

Dec 17, 2015 at 01:26 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

sebboh wrote:
such tests are interesting academically, but not worth much if you are never going to use the lens to take a shot that has distant edge details in focus.

This was my thinking. The way I use such lenses as these aren't accurately reflected in a more traditional tests. Although here and there I do have one when hiking and use it more generally (that's how I know the FD 85L blows highlighters and the N85 has such rich greens). When I was trying to find information on the N85 and Mino Limited (good luck on that), I only came across some moderately helpful stuff (pebble place and photozone.de), but nothing that was really helping me get a feel for the lens. The Contax N thread here ultimately spurred me to take the plunge though

And that's also what spurred me to make this tests--I thought it was odd in 2015 on the internet how hard it is to gather visually comparative information on all these lenses despite status. I thought if I had the privilege of getting my hands on these lenses, especially at the same time, I should pay it forward and make my findings accessible so other people can better understand.

For comparative purposes, I wanted to analyze the lenses in a way that would need no "translation" to my real world usage but remained systematic and practical and unbiased.

And it's interesting about the 75 Lux--lovely pictures, btw. Thanks for posting. You say the R80 is slightly better, but I read it was a pinch less sharp WO. But I haven't shot the 75, nor have I seen a real honest comparison of the two in this regard side by side, so you're probably right. And yes, my R80 pictures not striking you especially is user error, probably not the lens

I have seen some people truly understand the delicacy of the lens and work wonderfully with it's strengths. I am still learning the lens.

Dec 17, 2015 at 02:19 PM

uhoh7
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

sebboh wrote:
such tests are interesting academically, but not worth much if you are never going to use the lens to take a shot that has distant edge details in focus

Edge performance does have to be distant to matter. What the distance gives you is the detail to see very easily what happens as you approach the edge. Now, I suppose what I should try is to split a face on the edge, since all those little pores and hairs have so much more detail than a bookcase.

Dec 17, 2015 at 02:51 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

uhoh7 wrote:
Edge performance does have to be distant to matter. What the distance gives you is the detail to see very easily what happens as you approach the edge. Now, I suppose what I should try is to split a face on the edge, since all those little pores and hairs have so much more detail than a bookcase.

Interesting--in my tests, the edge performance was noticeably different on the lenses with the n85 being best WO in the corner. If I had shot at distance, this would have changed? For reference, I was probably about 8-10 feet away from subject

Also, lovely colors on your photos, especially the engine shot and the propane tank.

Dec 17, 2015 at 03:16 PM

sebboh
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

infinity edge tests are unlikely to be relevant to edge performance at portrait distance. often times shooting at infinity will show edge degradation due to field curvature that is not field relevant at short distances because you are focusing on the subject near the edge (also, field curvature characteristics often change depending on the focus distance).

Dec 17, 2015 at 03:35 PM

uhoh7
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

sebboh wrote:
infinity edge tests are unlikely to be relevant to edge performance at portrait distance. often times shooting at infinity will show edge degradation due to field curvature that is not field relevant at short distances because you are focusing on the subject near the edge (also, field curvature characteristics often change depending on the focus distance).

Well I need to shoot my test with at least two people then, one in the center, which I'll focus on, and then my half face on the edge

Going to be tough with the DOF of a 75 or 85 around 1.4 at .7 m

Close Focus by unoh7, M9 75 Lux

At .7m I think (correct me here) the 75 Lux is effectively the closest you can get to anything using RF focus without special adapter.

Edited on Dec 17, 2015 at 04:03 PM · View previous versions

Dec 17, 2015 at 03:55 PM

sebboh
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

uhoh7 wrote:
Well I need to shoot my test with at least two people then, one in the center, which I'll focus on, and then my half face on the edge

only if you're interested in shooting walls with the lens (in which case you should probably just shoot a wall).

otherwise you're better off shooting the center person and edge person separately (should probably do a midzone guy too).

edit: oh i forgot you'll be using the m9, so you have to focus on the center. in that case field curvature matters...

Dec 17, 2015 at 03:59 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

sebboh wrote:
infinity edge tests are unlikely to be relevant to edge performance at portrait distance. often times shooting at infinity will show edge degradation due to field curvature that is not field relevant at short distances because you are focusing on the subject near the edge (also, field curvature characteristics often change depending on the focus distance).

This gets at the thing I noted above, if you shoot the test replicating how you shoot them in real life, all variables are accounted for, and no need to translate.

I didn't think that the lens at infinite would correlate accurately to mid/near/mfd distance--take the R80 for instance. I didn't know that field curvature changes with distance though. Even if there is field curvature or not, I am only want to know if it's there in the way I shoot.

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:01 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Why does the focusing change on range finder in this regard?

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:05 PM

uhoh7
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
I am only want to know if it's there in the way I shoot.

A good 75/85 is alot of fun in many situations.

A fast one is nice to take a large subject at some distance and isolate it:

L1027927 by unoh7, on Flickr

Some might find the shot uninteresting but I like it and the edges certainly matter here for me.

Edited on Dec 17, 2015 at 04:27 PM · View previous versions

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:07 PM

sebboh
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
Why does the focusing change on range finder in this regard?

you need to focus in the center and recompose on a rangefinder because there is no focus information outside the central rangefinder patch.

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:11 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

uhoh7 wrote:
A good 75/85 is alot of fun in many situations.

A fast one is nice to take a large subject at some distance and isolate it:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8562/16268870737_16245f736d_b.jpg
L1027927 by unoh7, on Flickr

Some might find the shot uninteresting but I like it and the edges certainly matter here for me.

True

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:28 PM

zhangyue
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

uhoh7 wrote:
A good 75/85 is alot of fun in many situations.

Edge performance is not un-important, but it is all about priority in this focal length. 80lux perform better and better at longer distance, but it also start lose it magic at longer and longer distance to me, I would assume 75lux the same.

Dec 17, 2015 at 04:48 PM

agent-Jon
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

This thread makes me wonder how the Milvus 85 would compare. Wish it wasn't so darn big though.

Dec 23, 2015 at 05:26 AM

phuang3
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

agent-Jon wrote:
This thread makes me wonder how the Milvus 85 would compare. Wish it wasn't so darn big though.

From what I have known, the Milvus 85 is only second to Otus 85. It may also have better edge sharpness.

Dec 23, 2015 at 08:32 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

phuang3 wrote:
From what I have known, the Milvus 85 is only second to Otus 85. It may also have better edge sharpness.

I think the Milvus would be better corrected than all these, especially in terms of sharpness. Only the N85 was pretty decent outside the center WO. The ZA 85 is better than The 4 lenses chosen here, but the pictures don't have the magic IMO

I am curious about the Batis as well.

Dec 23, 2015 at 11:07 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

1) After some issues with the Fringer adapter, I have contacted Zhao (creator) directly, bypassing the seller. He's been very gracious and I have decided to get another Fringer. For those who plan on returning the Fringer for any reason, do yourself a massive favor and purchase the slightly more expensive shipping that allows you to track the shipping all the way through the delivery in China. Mine was lost in the mail, but had I sent the trackable way, I could have largely avoided the whole mess

I can happily recommend the finger adapter, but take care about the Chinese shipping.

2) The verdict on the Mino 85 Limited: In short, it's absolutely stunning.

I’ll admit, I was pretty skeptical about this lens going into this post. I really didn’t think I would like a portrait lens more than the N 85 or R 80. Given the lack of info/examples online, I was honestly expecting the price to be jacked up by sheer lack of availability. After shooting the Limited in decent light, I think it's head and shoulders above these other 3 lenses for portraits. It's renders less boldly than some Mino lenses in terms of color palate and saturation, but it's warm, nuanced and vivid. It’s much much softer than the Mino 200 2.8 in terms of color saturation. It reminds me of the 80-200 2.8 but even a little less saturated on the colors, and much smoother. The limited has excellent, nuanced and detailed light yellows, oranges and reds. While the colors are warm Minolta colors, I feel like the lens has a slight push to pink hue rather than yellow like some of my other Mino lenses. Skin is rendered with wonderful delicacy and vividness while maintaining a certain softness/care from the perfect pinch of spherical aberrations WO. As noted in the tests earlier in this thread, the lens is ULTRA smooth. After shooting this, I don’t really crave the Leica R 80 anymore. I’ll try to shoot/ post more in the future, but I just wanted to cap this thread. The len’s print, while delicate is distinctive, required minimal amount of PP beyond exposure. The Contax N is quite lovely in it's way, and quite a bit different, so it's still an attractive option. But the Mino Limited is simply magical. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it as much as I would like between the holidays, being sick, and sustained lack of decent light, but I think you’ll start to see what the IQ is about from the pictures below though I am sure others could do better. My last real thought is, I truly don’t understand why Sony doesn’t mass produce this EXACT lens, and sell it for $1,800 for FE.

Note: The AF with the LAEA4 isn't great with this lens. It gets near but misses critical focus often--not sure if the heavier front element is impeding accuracy by slowing it down, but I did better with the ZA 85 and Mino 85 with the same combination.

Lastly, if you're interested in buying these lenses, contact me or keep an eye on the B/S forum

Jan 07, 2016 at 06:56 PM

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