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Archive 2015 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory He...

naturephoto1
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I finally got around to running some additional tests on the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM this evening. Still want to run more tests however. I really have not found anyplace at this point to run a diagonal infinity test.

I did run some tests at both medium and relatively long distances and I am still seeing the right corners appearing to be soft. They improve as I stop down but, I do not believe that they quite equal the left side at even f5.6.

I do have a B+W UV filter on the lens, but I doubt that would cause an issue with this.

I have noticed some coma with the lens though for some light sources. This may be partially related to the filter, but I am not sure. Also, some of the white street lights with my A7rM appear to have a magenta halo around the light. I am not sure how I can deal with this.

I would appreciate some more assistance.

Rich

Dec 05, 2015 at 06:11 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Since the sensor alignment is in question and you don't have another body to test on, if it were me, I would return the camera to Kolari, particularly as you have seen a similar issue with other lenses on that same side. Just to be be more sure, you could try the upside down trick and place the same right corner area of the scene on the opposite side of the lens and see if it's equally soft or not. That still is not going to tell you if if the cause is the lens or sensor alignment for certain. That said, if you performed this test (upside down test) with many lenses and every lens exhibited similar issues when comparing both sides of the lens with the same part of the scene, that would seem to point strongly to a sensor alignment issue.

Dec 05, 2015 at 06:27 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Since the sensor alignment is in question and you don't have another body to test on, if it were me, I would return the camera to Kolari, particularly as you have seen a similar issue with other lenses on that same side. Just to be be more sure, you could try the upside down trick and place the same right corner area of the scene on the opposite side of the lens and see if it's equally soft or not. That still is not going to tell you if if the cause is the lens or sensor alignment for...Show more →

Hi Tariq,

Thanks for the recommendation for doing the test upside down. I think that I would have to switch to a much lighter tripod for a center cloumn that would allow that since my RRS tripod does not have a center column, but that is doable.

Rich

Dec 05, 2015 at 06:41 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I have received confirmation from Ilija at Kolari Vision that they observed the issue that I had noted with the sensor on the right side of my A7r. Ilija has indicated that it is a touchy process to get the sensor aligned, but he hopes to have the alignement completed and the AR glass replacement completed on Monday of next week. Hopefully Kolari Vision will also confirm that my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM is centered; the lens was sent in to Kolari with the camera for confirmation.

Rich

Jan 15, 2016 at 06:39 PM

mcbroomf
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Good news Rich .. fingers crossed for the lens

Jan 15, 2016 at 07:56 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I heard from from Ilija at Kolari Vision earlier today. He let me know that my A7rM was completed and they had run tests confirming that after the aligment of the sensor that they were obtaining sharp images on both right and left sides with their reference as well as my lens and adapters. Ilija also confirmed that my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM does not appear to be decentered. Additionally, Kolari Vision installed the AR thin sensor cover to my camera. According to Ilijaa "The glass also has a UV coating on it that matches the color response closer to the original glass, so there should be less of a color cast. I'm interested in how much the improvement will be, you'll probably be the first person to get the new version."

My camera, lens, and adapters were shipped back to me earlier today and are scheduled for delivery on Friday.

Rich

Jan 20, 2016 at 06:39 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Wow, great news Rich. In the end, you are likely better off due to the initial problem as you ended up with a coated sensor glass AND had your lens professionally tested!

Jan 20, 2016 at 06:43 PM

mcbroomf
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Jan 20, 2016 at 08:42 PM

pdmphoto
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, I'm very interested to see how the thin (0.8) cover glass performs on the A7R

Jan 20, 2016 at 09:04 PM

sebboh
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

excellent! looking forward to seeing the pics.

Jan 20, 2016 at 10:47 PM

pdmphoto
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, Any update?

Jan 26, 2016 at 07:49 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

pdmphoto wrote:
Rich, Any update?

Yes, the camera was delivered on Friday through the USPS. But, we got hammered with our snowstorm that ran from sometime on Friday till Sunday morning (we broke the Allentown snowfall record). I was digging out our driveway and our 4 cars (and around the cars), our mailbox, and our walkways for days. It has taken a lot our of me (no snowblower and couldn't get it between our cars/vans even if we had one) since the Township burried our cars, end of our driveway, and mail box in a mountain of snow about 4' deep and 4' high. Hopefully I will get to play with the camera and lens and make some comparisons between my camera with the new AR and UV coatings with Mike's standard A7rM.

Rich

Jan 26, 2016 at 11:08 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I finally got out late this afternoon to do a little testing of my recently returned A7rM with the latest AR and UV coatings along with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM lens. It was approaching sunset and the recorded by the camera as AWB showed in LR6 As Shot reead at a color temperature of 8500 and a tint of 67. The colors appear to be way off for the Sony Profile for this and they look like they are from another planet when you apply the Sony profiles for Auto, Daylight, Cloudy, and Shade. I could post some JPEGs of some of the files right out of the camera if people want. This might be usefule and helpful.

I am definitely going to need to do some work with my X-Rite Colorchecker and software to try to get the WB and color set for the differnt lighting conditions mentioned above.

As to my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM, I am getting much more purple on the edges and corners than I would like, The Leida M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph has even more of the purple cast. I am going to need help as to how to correct for these problems from some of our more knowledgeable FM members. Anyone who can lend some help, it would be most appreciated.

As to the affect of the AR coatings for the new senosr cover, I know that I have seen some reflection in some instances, but I am not sure if this is from the sensor glass and I am not sure at this point as to if it is any better or any worse than on the stock A7r.

Rich

Jan 30, 2016 at 08:52 PM

DavidBM
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
I finally got out late this afternoon to do a little testing of my recently returned A7rM with the latest AR and UV coatings along with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM lens. It was approaching sunset and the recorded by the camera as AWB showed in LR6 As Shot reead at a color temperature of 8500 and a tint of 67. The colors appear to be way off for the Sony Profile for this and they look like they are from another planet when you apply the Sony profiles for Auto, Daylight, Cloudy, and Shade. I could post some...Show more →
The purple on the edges is I'm afraid just the interaction of the front illuminated sensor on the A7r and the steep ray angles on those lenses. Nothing to be done except make a radial filter preset with Lightroom to correct it.

FWIW the A7rII gives almost no color caste with those lenses thank to back illumination....

Jan 30, 2016 at 09:02 PM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

DavidBM wrote:
The purple on the edges is I'm afraid just the interaction of the front illuminated sensor on the A7r and the steep ray angles on those lenses. Nothing to be done except make a radial filter preset with Lightroom to correct it.

FWIW the A7rII gives almost no color caste with those lenses thank to back illumination....

Hi David,

Thank you. I knew things would/will be better with an A7rII and an A7rIIM camera when I am able to afford one.

For my A7rM, How do you go about making a radial filter preset in LR and what/how do I make the proper adjustments? Will I need a separate filter for the 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and another one for the Leica M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph?

Rich

Jan 30, 2016 at 09:12 PM

DavidBM
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi David,

Thank you. I knew things would/will be better with an A7rII and an A7rIIM camera when I am able to afford one.

For my A7rM, How do you go about making a radial filter preset in LR and what/how do I make the proper adjustments? Will I need a separate filter for the 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and another one for the Leica M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph?

Rich

In Lightroom next to the graduated filter and brush tools there is a tool for making circular radial filters. You need to make one using the variable saturation tints available at the bottom of the tools. Probably some kind of greenish color will cancel out the caste, but you will need to do some experimenting with the color, saturation and size of the filter. Yes a different one will be needed for best results with each lens. It's actually pretty easy, though I think there a plugin you can get called corner fix which automates it.

Jan 30, 2016 at 11:24 PM

mcbroomf
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I think that Cornerfix was a stand alone program (still available), and Adobe developed a plugin called DNG Flat field. Both require a DNG file though.

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/lightroomplugins.html
http://labsdownload.adobe.com/pub/labs/lightroomplugins/lightroomplugins_dngff_docs.pdf

http://sites.google.com/site/cornerfix/

Rich, does my older A7rM show the same colour caste?

Jan 31, 2016 at 06:16 AM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

mcbroomf wrote:
I think that Cornerfix was a stand alone program (still available), and Adobe developed a plugin called DNG Flat field. Both require a DNG file though.

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/lightroomplugins.html
http://labsdownload.adobe.com/pub/labs/lightroomplugins/lightroomplugins_dngff_docs.pdf

http://sites.google.com/site/cornerfix/

Rich, does my older A7rM show the same colour caste?

Hi Mike,

I did not get a chance to compare the 2 cameras at this point. I am also somewhat reluctant to try to switch lenses between the 2 cameras out of doors and to get dust in to compare them. I may just have to make a comparison with different lenses mounted and accept the difference in the cameras if I make the comparisons outside. If I do the comparisons inside I would be less reluctant to switch the lenses in this cold weather.

As it was, when I took the first photos when I imported them into LR I found a piece of dust that somehow had gotten onto the sensor. I was scratching my head as to what I was seeing on all of the images since the dust was on every single image with a bright sky. I had only mounted the just newly completed camera with the returned lens so I was concerned. Inside I tried a different set-up with the same results and I missed the piece of dust on the corner when checking the sensor. Then I switched lenses and got the same results. Finally, I looked at the sensor more carefully and saw the piece of dust and I blew it out with my bulb blower. When I checked my images again, the dust had moved so I blew it out 1 more time. I believe that the dust is now out of the camera. In any case with the conditions outside as they are at present, you can understand my reluctance in switching the lenses between cameras and getting dust inside both cameras.

Rich

Jan 31, 2016 at 07:45 AM

mcbroomf
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, for colour caste alone a cloudy sky is simplest and easiest to use for a rough assessment (not a calibration file of course), so changing the lens indoors then stepping outside to take photos should be OK. You don't have to put the lens on a tripod as it doesn't matter if there's a little blur although the sky should be plenty bright enough to keep shutter speeds short.

For your own camera I would also make sure to take a series that includes both aperture and focus distance. These should give you and idea how many presets or flat field calibration files you need for each lens.

Mike

Jan 31, 2016 at 08:46 AM

naturephoto1
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

mcbroomf wrote:
Rich, for colour caste alone a cloudy sky is simplest and easiest to use for a rough assessment (not a calibration file of course), so changing the lens indoors then stepping outside to take photos should be OK. You don't have to put the lens on a tripod as it doesn't matter if there's a little blur although the sky should be plenty bright enough to keep shutter speeds short.

For your own camera I would also make sure to take a series that includes both aperture and focus distance. These should give you and idea how many presets or...Show more →

Hi Mike,

Here are the comparisons between my A7rM and your A7rM both set to AWB taken with my R 50mm f2 Summicron lens set to f4 of a cloudy/overcast sky. Both were taken hand held with the cameras set to AWB right out of the camera but reduced to a JPEG from the original RAW files. Both cameras were Shot at ISO 100, 1/4000 second for my camera and 1/3200 for yours. My camera recorded the color temperatue as 9700 with a tint of +10. Your camera recorded a color temperature of 7500 with a tint of +3.

This would explain the crazy color balance that I was getting the other night and why the Sony Profiles for As Shot, AWB, Daylight, and Shade in LR were all off.

As I have indicated, I am definitely going to need to work with my Xrite Color Checker and software to adjust the WB and color profiles for my camera.

Rich

RICH'S A7RM SET TO AWB 1/4000 @F4 TEMPERATURE 9700, TINT +10

MIKE'S A7RM SET TO AWB 1/3200 @F4 TEMPERATURE 7500, TINT +3

Feb 01, 2016 at 02:14 PM

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