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Archive 2015 · Samsung exit?

  
 
rattymouse
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Samsung exit?


Atlasman2 wrote:
The downside to developing photography by promoting it to camera clubs can be that this activity can still be done with a smartphone.

IR published this article today: http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2015/11/17/ending-gear-envy-capturing-great-portraits-with-an-iphone-6s

These smartphone cameras keep getting better and already 3rd party products are growing. Will we see a day when these cameras (and the image processors) will be able to create subject isolation like the big sensor cameras do now?


Brutal, but spot on target. I have to admit that I am amazed at what my iPhone can do. The IQ from this little thing is pretty amazing.



Nov 17, 2015 at 10:38 AM
Atlasman2
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Samsung exit?


rattymouse wrote:
And you call yourself an FM'er!


You caught me, I'm out in the open now!



Nov 17, 2015 at 11:17 AM
LightShow
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Samsung exit?


http://photorumors.com/2015/11/19/its-official-samsung-pulling-their-cameras-out-of-germany/
"19 November 2015
In Germany, we have been observing for some time a gradual decline in demand for digital cameras, camcorders and related accessories. We have to adapt to the demands of the market and have therefore decided to phase out sales and marketing of these products gradually. This is a decision that affects only the German market."



Nov 19, 2015 at 09:15 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Samsung exit?


LightShow wrote:
http://photorumors.com/2015/11/19/its-official-samsung-pulling-their-cameras-out-of-germany/


The part missing in Samsung's response at the end is "This is a decision that affects only the German market at this time." With Samsung pulling out of so many markets, I think it would be naive to believe this is not just the beginning of the end. The reduced quantity/ manufacturing scale loss would make continuation in only one or two markets completely unprofitable.



Nov 19, 2015 at 09:42 AM
Atlasman2
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Samsung exit?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
The part missing in Samsung's response at the end is "This is a decision that affects only the German market at this time." With Samsung pulling out of so many markets, I think it would be naive to believe this is not just the beginning of the end. The reduced quantity/ manufacturing scale loss would make continuation in only one or two markets completely unprofitable.


I agree: it is the beginning of the end for the current line of mirrorless products.

But I can't help but believe that we haven't seen the last of Samsung. There's just too much technology for them to ignore a potentially profitable market segment.



Nov 19, 2015 at 10:04 AM
rattymouse
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Samsung exit?


Atlasman2 wrote:
I agree: it is the beginning of the end for the current line of mirrorless products.

But I can't help but believe that we haven't seen the last of Samsung. There's just too much technology for them to ignore a potentially profitable market segment.


...who's making money selling mirrorless cameras? The few who report "profits" are so paltry that they do not justify the enormous investment.



Nov 19, 2015 at 10:41 AM
rscheffler
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Samsung exit?


Samsung is a giant company for whom ILCs are a super niche market. It could be argued they were never one of the traditional camera brands and therefore never had similar dedication to (and reliance on) this market, the heritage, nor the user base.

This of course doesn't mean the traditional camera brands will now have an easier time, since the primary 'threat' comes from outside the camera equipment market. I'm sure there will be future exits, but it doesn't necessarily mean the end of dedicated cameras for photography. It will probably just become much more niche with boutique brands (and associated prices). If there is demand, someone will find a way to address it.



Nov 19, 2015 at 11:09 AM
Atlasman2
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Samsung exit?


rattymouse wrote:
...who's making money selling mirrorless cameras? The few who report "profits" are so paltry that they do not justify the enormous investment.


Yes, paltry might be the word to describe the state of profits in the mirrorless segment, but they are profits non-the-less—meaning they are finally figuring out how to play in a DSLR dominated market. I would take this to indicate that from here out, they can grow the profits to a healthy return on investments.

Will there be attrition in the future? I'm sure there will be fall-off.

And let's not forget that Canon and Nikon will be seriously entering the mirrorless segment—then mirrorless will finally get some respect.

It reminds me of my days at Commodore (before the IBM PC); it was a tough sell trying to get personal computers into businesses—then IBM released their version and it became a new game.



Nov 19, 2015 at 11:09 AM
rscheffler
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Samsung exit?


I guess the big picture thinking is that mirrorless won't save ILC photography. It's a logical evolution of ILCs, but is just a shuffling around of a finite number of users. Just as DSLRs and P&Ss, it faces the continuing onslaught of photography-as-an-app tightly integrated in networked multifunctional devices... something so far none of the traditional brands have truly addressed. Sure, there are now wifi cameras that connect to phones, but you still need the phone. For many, it's probably a question of what's the point of carrying an additional device if the phone already does similar... Therefore IMO photography as we on this forum know and practice, will continue to become increasingly niche and more expensive. For the manufacturers, the relevance of whether it's DSLR or mirrorless is of which they can sell more.


Nov 19, 2015 at 11:26 AM
rscheffler
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Samsung exit?


rscheffler wrote:
it faces the continuing onslaught of photography-as-an-app tightly integrated in networked multifunctional devices... something so far none of the traditional brands have truly addressed.


And I think this is the greatest missed opportunity of the traditional camera brands. They waited far too long and now iOS and Android are firmly established with complete imaging solutions, from hardware to software. Of course a question is whether they could have even succeeded in the long run. Look at Blackberry. The early 'smartphone' darling that eventually succumbed to Apple and Google.

The traditional brands could still make compatible hardware, but they will never control the platform on which the hardware relies.

Interestingly and OT, the coming of the driverless car is at a much earlier stage compared to where photography is now relative to being swallowed up by Apple/Google. We can see that some of the major car manufacturers are quite aware of the threat posed to them by Apple/Google. It too will be a situation where there will be hardware manufacturers, but those controlling the software platform on which the hardware relies, are the ones who will reap the greatest windfall. And for example, Mercedes has stated they have no intention to become the Foxconn of the automotive industry (i.e. manufacturing hardware for Apple).

The camera manufacturers let the opportunity to steer the ship slip through their grasp quite some time ago.

But, IMO, there's also nothing wrong with evolving into a brand that caters to a niche group of dedicated users. Just that such an outcome will not be able to sustain a company the size of Samsung, obviously, let alone Canon or Nikon in their present forms.



Nov 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM
rattymouse
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Samsung exit?


rscheffler wrote:
I guess the big picture thinking is that mirrorless won't save ILC photography.


This is very true. Yet if you listen to the rabid drooling mirrorless fan boy, they are convinced that mirrorless will lead the makers into the promised land, where millions upon millions of cameras are sold annually.

Such thinking is ridiculous.

We have not reached the bottom of the crash in camera sales, despite 5+ years of double digit declines.




Nov 19, 2015 at 11:53 AM
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