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Archive 2015 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

sandog_79
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

This is my first post and one of the reasons I joined this forum. I am in the midst of tearing apart my Canon 600mm F4 non-IS, no parts available from Canon for it.

I appreciate only informative or adding to general or collective knowledge to this repair or USM Ring Motors in general.

I have disassembled this lens and have it frankensteined on my desk working on it. I do not know if it is the USM itself or if the electronics are failing or a combination of the two. If it is the electronics, I plan to replace the capacitors, diodes and if can be found, the DC/DC converters. If you know where these can be found, or a suitable replacement, please let me know.

Is there anybody that is able to test the USM itself to determine if it is good, bad or intermittent? Is there any company or individual that can rebuild the USM, perhaps the original factory in Japan? It is just a serious of Piezo elements that would need to be replaced, shouldn't cost more than 500~1000. If so, perhaps several owners can join in and we ship all of our motors at once in to have them reworked to help reduce the cost?

In addition, as there are really only two different sizes of USM Ring motors by canon, the 72mm and the 77mm, could I buy a focusing unit from lets say the current 600mm and transplant the USM motor itself into my lens and solder the connections. If this is not feasible, and you have the relevant and/or pertinent information as to why not, please speak up.

I have attached to this post, pics of my Oscillscope screen. This was attached to the leads that go to the USM motor. I am hoping it is the electronics, perhaps that caps, that are failing, as this is a very noisy output signal. It is accurate though, as if you look at the rise of on wave on CH1, you will see the fall of the other wave on CH2, which is what it should be doing. The voltage of the wave is ~75V as well. My question is, is the wave form accurate, should it be this noisy? Or should it be more of a smooth sine wave and the caps have failed and are not cleaning the signal like they should?

I am about to strip down my 50mm F1.2 and attach leads to the USM in that and take a capture to compare, but would rather have someone who is knowledgeable about this chime in. If you have a full service manual, please let me know, or if you know the specific test points and reference diagrams for tuning the circuit, again, please send them along.

I know this is a long post for a first time, I appreciate everyone who took the time to read through it and definitely appreciate the people who will add to this knowledge base.

Michael

Left and Right Channels of the USM logged

Left Channel of USM logged

Right Channel of USM logged

Left and Right Channels logged with Math function between the Two

Sep 29, 2015 at 02:28 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

I do not know how to add additional photos to my link above, but here is a link to the test jig I currently am using


	https://goo.gl/photos/M4k324w5vqxxpdFb7

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	https://goo.gl/photos/h9qQoPTw3HCBANZw5

;


	https://goo.gl/photos/CH12b4GD9BdJnzMk9

Sep 29, 2015 at 02:44 PM

kemo681
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Boy, someone likes pain. I have an obsolete Canon 500mm f4.5, which I picked up used. I have never tore down the lens and, hopefully, never will.

Having said that, I did pick up a Canon Service Manual for the 500mm off of eBay. You may consider doing that. Also, there was a third party camera service that will work on them.... sorry, I can not remember the name, I did e-mail them and, for the 500, they had limited parts on hand and no way of getting other parts.

Mike

Sep 29, 2015 at 02:49 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Do you happen to have the 3rd party repair house? The parts availability for this thing is what is killing me. The replacing them if they were available is cake, perhaps, two hours tops. For the 500 service manual, do you happen to have a digital copy of it? The only reason I ask, is that it will have a component list for the circuit boards plus test points for voltage references, waverforms and frequency for frequency test points.

The pain is having this lens not working, and perhaps never again and then having to go spend another 7.5k+ on a new one. Plus I have the 200mm f1.8 which scares me to use at this point for fear it ending up like this one.

Sep 29, 2015 at 02:52 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Here is the test jig, I have figured it out

Sep 29, 2015 at 02:57 PM

Andrew J
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Toshio knows everything about L lenses. He checked out my friends 300/2.8L and refused any money after finding nothing wrong with it (7dII was the problem). This is who Canon contacts when they have a problem.

TF Camera Repair
27 Brunswick Woods Drive
East Brunswick, NJ 08816
732-238-8606

Sep 29, 2015 at 03:31 PM

R.H. Johnson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

MidWest Camera Repair

http://www.midwestcamera.com

they fixed my EF 500mm f4.5l after i destroyed it in a motor scooter accident. i am very satisfied with their workmanship. i highly recommend MidWest Camera repair.

FYI Canon's lens schematic diagram is the same for the non-IS EF 200mm f1.8l, 300mm f2.8l, 400mm f2.8l, 500mm f4.5l, & 600mm f4.0l as stated in my Canon Service Manual Canon lens ef500mm 1:4.5L circa 1992.

if you do not have the manual get one. you can not align the auto-focus start stop limiters without the manual there are timing diagrams 4 i think that have to be set with an oscilloscope each step is dependant on the previous step to occur at the the right timing sequence. if one knows what they are doing you can get away with dual channels. but it would be much easier with a 4 channel scope. then there the optical alignment.

it only cost not much money to be repaired not that expensive. DYF send the darn thing to MidWest they got all the bench set-up & test equipment in-house and know exactly what to do to that puppy.

good shootn.......

ps. midwest can rebuild the USM motors

Sep 29, 2015 at 03:39 PM

shornet
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

You can find Canon EF 600mm 1:4.0 L USM Manuals online at:

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/457621/Canon-Ef-600mm-1-4-0-L-Usm.html#manual

Sep 29, 2015 at 04:28 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Shornet, this is only the parts diagram and not the full service manual. Thank you though.

Sep 29, 2015 at 04:31 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Thank you for the hookup on midwest. I will verify the oscope signals on my canon 50mm f1.2, and if confirmed, the signals are matching or very close, I will send out. If signals do not match I will rebuild and then test, if still failing then send out. Optically still should not need alignment as the optics are not being touched or removed, only the ring usm, and I am not touch any of the pots on the board to avoid frequency change or shift.

Sep 29, 2015 at 04:41 PM

R.H. Johnson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

oh, here's the catcher, while you have that lens open if i were in your project. i would have all of the optics cleaned and aligned. i would also calibrate the electronics. then have the lens tested on the optical bench and tweaked if need be. the Canon 50mm f1.2l is not one of the lenses that have the same electronic components as the 600mm f4.0l. that is,. the circuit boards are not the same. therefore, from a purely test perspective your logic is flawed. it would be better for you to compare the 600mm to your 200mm f1.8l. it has the identical components. then you will be comparing apples to apples. however, without the manual you don't know where the TPs are located on the flex PCB. i will try to look at my paypal account and PM you the seller of my 500mm f4.5 service manual. the service manual that i have is Canon's internal service manual ie. the manual supplied to Canon Authorized Service Centers and is a proprietary document..

Sep 29, 2015 at 07:54 PM

danski0224
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Reasons to *really* think about buying one of these lenses... this thread.

At some point, the V1 IS big whites will be here too.

Sep 30, 2015 at 06:07 AM

sandog_79
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

R.H. Johnson I understand that the circuit boards are not the same, but both being a 77mm ring USM motor, the signal to both should be equal or close to equal in order to drive the ring motor. And my theory seems to be correct, that currently the drive signal to the USM 600mm motor is indeed incredibly noisy. I believe some or all of the electrolytic caps are bad. This would definitely cause the noisy signal, and if you compare this signal to the the signal from the 600mm you would see why this motor cannot work. So time to start replacing components on the FPCBA, if anyone has a circuit schematic or component breakdown and location, please pm me with it. And there are two components marked with 182kj, if anyone can identify these for me, I would greatly appreciate it. Once I have the signal cleaned up, I may end up buying another ring USM from canon and try a transplant. If any one can advise as to why this would not work, please let me know.

Oct 01, 2015 at 03:29 PM

KClarke
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

*Shudders* ...i just had a bunch of parts replaced in my 500 f/4 V1. Hope I get several more years out of it.

Good luck getting this running.

Oct 01, 2015 at 03:37 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

kclarke, buy the focus unit, the FPCBA and the shutter, and outside of a lens breaking, you can get it repaired for a very, very long time.

Oct 01, 2015 at 06:45 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

I may have found the culprit. Time to buy two new caps and change them to see if this filters the signal to a clean sine wave. I would still love for someone to either post or pm me the schematic and/or the electronic component BOM with parts layout as I am sure there are more caps that are bad.

Oct 01, 2015 at 06:54 PM

lowa2
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Why are you suspecting those two orange caps? In the picture (which is very blurry), they dont really seem to be leaking. Unless you're talking about the liquid on the PCB, the picture is not very clear.

Charles

Oct 01, 2015 at 07:45 PM

sandog_79
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

I suspect those as most electrolytics go bad after 10 years. Since these are the only two electrolytic caps on the board and once removed the noisy signal to the usm was not changed. Again, would love a schematic or a parts placement and bom for the circuit board. I am hoping I have these value replacement caps at my house so I can change out tomorrow and retest the signal.

Oct 01, 2015 at 07:55 PM

lowa2
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

Do you have a capacitance tester? The signal may be dirty before the caps.

I don't have a diagram, but a quick call to Canon could help?

Charles

Oct 01, 2015 at 08:11 PM

R.H. Johnson
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 600mm F4 non-IS repair/rebuild

that assembly is not in the 500mm. it does not appear in my 500 manual. the noise filter caps are surface mount on the flex PCB according to the parts list and schematics. this makes perfect sense. the noise filter cap should be mount as close to the point to be filtered as possible; depending on the frequency to be filtered.

1. C1, C2 = 4.7 mfd
2. C4, C13, C17 = 1 mfd
3. C14, C15, C16 = 15 nfd
4. C18 = 3.3 mfd

depending on the value of those electrolytics they are more likely power supply filter caps different from noise filter caps.

can't see the orange caps very well. i willing to bet that those caps have a cross engrave on the top a sure sign of leakage in that type of cap is for the cross pattern to be distorted. typically that pattern is concave slightly. when leakage occurs the caps swell causing the cross pattern to appear convex slightly.

note: distortion of the cross top pattern is a good indicator but does not always indicate leakage.

Oct 01, 2015 at 08:28 PM

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