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Archive 2015 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

tommieh
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

walts.photo wrote:
Ah, I got it now! The RAW file has an extra 2EV latitude at high end. Very useful to know.

If you bracket or use any continious mode remember that you loose some data though. Sometimes a 14-bit (or 13-bit) file that has been shot ETTR can contain all the data needed.

People often argue that if bracketing it doesn't matter if one loose a bit but that is only true if one don't decide to only use 1 of the images in a series of brackets. Such decisions isn't always that easy to make while being out shooting.

Jan 21, 2016 at 09:22 AM

prashant
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Fred Miranda wrote:
When bringing your RAW image to LR or CaptureOne, reduce the exposure back to normal or just recover the highlights if you prefer.

I hope many of you find this helpful.
All the best,
Fred

What do you mean by normal? LR will just read the data, isn't it?

Jan 24, 2016 at 08:14 AM

prashant
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

I guess this is not available on A7 and only with new series cameras? Or is it the new firmware?

Fred Miranda wrote:
Update:
When doing the ETTR technique for bracket shots (-2, 0, +2), we should add +4EV to the exposure where we don't see any zebras stripes. (As described on the first post).

However, with the new 'Uncompressed' RAW option, we are no longer able to bracket in silent mode. It was desired to use silent mode because the bracket sequent would be faster, silent and with absolutely zero vibration. There was a loss of precision (14 to 12 bits) but bracketing would more than make up for it.

Now with uncompressed, bracketing can only be done in "e-Front Curtain Shutter" mode (which...Show more →

Jan 24, 2016 at 01:42 PM

rytch0
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Fred Miranda wrote:
For those looking for an easy way to expose to the right (ETTR) and improve S/N ratio and with that, cleaner shadows, I have found a very easy way using your A7RII zebra function. It probably works similarly with the A7R and other models but the settings presented here are for the A7RII only.

In the past I have used the "blinkies" in playback mode or live histogram to determine when highlights get clipped but with zebras it's way easier to preview and get more consistent results.
By trial and error I have determined the amount of highlight latitude...Show more →

Fred, what white balance setting are you using, which of course affects jpeg rendering and hence the zebra warnings. Thanks for the info!

May 01, 2016 at 06:56 AM

prashant
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Fred - is it possible to know your process after getting these into Lightroom? I often find the ETTR this way is slightly overexposed (default settings LR)

Fred Miranda wrote:
For those looking for an easy way to expose to the right (ETTR) and improve S/N ratio and with that, cleaner shadows, I have found a very easy way using your A7RII zebra function. It probably works similarly with the A7R and other models but the settings presented here are for the A7RII only.

In the past I have used the "blinkies" in playback mode or live histogram to determine when highlights get clipped but with zebras it's way easier to preview and get more consistent results.
By trial and error I have determined the amount of highlight latitude...Show more →

May 12, 2016 at 09:12 AM

Vcize
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

prashant wrote:
Fred - is it possible to know your process after getting these into Lightroom? I often find the ETTR this way is slightly overexposed (default settings LR)

Well that's kind of the whole point. It's going to be overexposed SooC.

I can't speak for Fred and I'm sure he'll be along to give his take shortly, but generally the way I use it in Lightroom is just to pull down the exposure slider until the shot is exposed properly. Then when you want to go back and add shadow detail, it is using actual data that it still has in those shadows rather than interpolating as it would with a "proper" starting exposure with dark shadows.

No idea if that's the correct use or not, but that's usually how I use it. Hopefully I haven't been doing it wrong

May 12, 2016 at 11:43 AM

kevindar
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

I tried this method, and found that I generally have a blown channel, and some irrecoverible hilights.
As for processsing, the bes tway of doing it is a combination of pulling back the highlight and exposure slider. it will in part depend of how much of the scene is on the bright side. then you need to push shadows, and often pull back on the black slider as not to loose all contrast, and then push the contrast slider so it does not Look HDR>

May 12, 2016 at 04:17 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Yes, the images will be overexposed when you bring them to Lightroom. Then you can play with the exposure/highlights sliders until your image looks well exposed to you. The benefit of ETTR is boosting shadows without unwanted notice increase.

Vcize wrote:
Well that's kind of the whole point. It's going to be overexposed SooC.

I can't speak for Fred and I'm sure he'll be along to give his take shortly, but generally the way I use it in Lightroom is just to pull down the exposure slider until the shot is exposed properly. Then when you want to go back and add shadow detail, it is using actual data that it still has in those shadows rather than interpolating as it would with a "proper" starting exposure with dark shadows.

No idea if that's the correct use or not, but that's usually how...Show more →

May 12, 2016 at 05:26 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

It would not really matter because as you change white balance, the zebra patterns would be affected as well. So as long as you stay within the 2-stop limit, you should be fine. I usually have my WB set to Daylight when shooting landscapes.

rytch0 wrote:
Fred, what white balance setting are you using, which of course affects jpeg rendering and hence the zebra warnings. Thanks for the info!

May 12, 2016 at 05:28 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Please describe your steps so I can see what could be the issue. Keep in mind that I only tested this on the A7RII as I wrote on my first post. If you are not using this camera, you may need to adjust the settings.
Best,
Fred

kevindar wrote:
I tried this method, and found that I generally have a blown channel, and some irrecoverible hilights.
As for processsing, the bes tway of doing it is a combination of pulling back the highlight and exposure slider. it will in part depend of how much of the scene is on the bright side. then you need to push shadows, and often pull back on the black slider as not to loose all contrast, and then push the contrast slider so it does not Look HDR>

May 12, 2016 at 05:30 PM

kevindar
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Thanks Fred. I shot in manual. I set the zebra to 100+. I have the big stopper on. I have iso set to 50. set my aperture to f11. then I prolong shutter untill I see the very first zebra signs. I have the camera set to 1/3 stop increments, so I then click the shutter click and extra 6 clicks. take a shot.

I may have not seen some of the tinier zebras. thats a possibility. I actually mostly tried to stick to 5 Clicks (1.66 stops).

May 12, 2016 at 06:59 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Kevin - don't you have an A7R? If so, I don't think "recoverability" of highlights is as good as the A7RII.

May 12, 2016 at 07:11 PM

kevindar
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Gary, I do have an A7R, and I think I discovered that during my shooting. I may have to do only one stop beyond first zebras.

May 12, 2016 at 07:31 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Well, it will not work with the big stopper, zebras are not accurate with a 10 stop filter.

kevindar wrote:
Thanks Fred. I shot in manual. I set the zebra to 100+. I have the big stopper on. I have iso set to 50. set my aperture to f11. then I prolong shutter untill I see the very first zebra signs. I have the camera set to 1/3 stop increments, so I then click the shutter click and extra 6 clicks. take a shot.

I may have not seen some of the tinier zebras. thats a possibility. I actually mostly tried to stick to 5 Clicks (1.66 stops).

May 12, 2016 at 07:57 PM

kevindar
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

I have tried it without the filter also. i still get some blown highlights. I will try to do a controlled test with various exposures and report back.

Fred I checked. on my a7r, with photo style set to STD (dont know if that effects the histogram) and watching zebras closely, I have between 1, and 1.3 stop head room in the highlights before at least one channel in the sky is blown.
safest for me is to ETTR 1 full stop from when the first zebras show up, or bracket on a7R

May 12, 2016 at 08:18 PM

mdemeyer
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Isn't ISO 50 a "fake" ISO (below the native sensitivity of the sensor)? If so, that explains your 1-stop over-exposure when you go +2 as Fred recommends. You have already used one stop of the system capability by going to an ISO setting where the image is actually overexposed 1 stop and then mapped down.

Michael

May 12, 2016 at 08:47 PM

kevindar
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

may be. i will try it iso 100. there was a site that showed a7R have best DR at iso 50. I will run test with iso 100

May 12, 2016 at 08:51 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

mdemeyer wrote:
Isn't ISO 50 a "fake" ISO (below the native sensitivity of the sensor)? If so, that explains your 1-stop over-exposure when you go +2 as Fred recommends. You have already used one stop of the system capability by going to an ISO setting where the image is actually overexposed 1 stop and then mapped down.

Michael

Yes, I missed that he used ISO 50. That's the reason for his blown highlights.

May 12, 2016 at 08:54 PM

kevindar
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

thanks. will retest with iso 100

May 12, 2016 at 09:06 PM

virtualrain
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

Anyone tried this with Capture One Pro? Does it work equally as well?

May 12, 2016 at 10:17 PM

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