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Archive 2015 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


This is a follow-up from the DR comparison from the A7RII and A7R cameras at base ISO.
See this comparison here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1380932

Now I tested both cameras for dynamic range at High ISO. I was expecting noticeable differences after ISO 800. The original images was underexposed in-camera by about 1 1/2 stops and then pushed in Lightroom to 3EV. As you can see I'm pushing considerably. (4 1/2 EV)
The A7RII 42MP image was downsampled to 36MP so we can have a normalized comparison at 1:1 view. (That's why it's a "tif" image on the comparison crops)

Camera settings were as follow:
All exposure settings and histogram were identical for each ISO setting
Lens compensation set to OFF
Steadyshot set to OFF for the A7RII
White balance set to Daylight
Lightroom Default settings
Lens used: FE 55 f/1.8 @f/5.6

Here are the results:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.40.00 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.28.50 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.29.33 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.30.00 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.30.25 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.30.50 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.31.14 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 3.31.45 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/aaScreen Shot 2015-08-13 at 4.26.26 PM copy.jpg


https://www.fredmiranda.com/Buzz/Screen Shot 2015-08-13 at 4.26.26 PM copy.jpg



Aug 13, 2015 at 05:45 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Nice test Fred. To my eye the A7rII has about a 1.5EV DR advantage at the highest ISO you tested, about in line with the sensor-based measurements that have been posted.


Aug 13, 2015 at 05:54 PM
Moroni
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


The A7RII is obviously noticeably cleaner, which in turn should make it cleaner than the D810 as well.

Thanks Fred!

BTW, are you noticing the A7RII images to be softer compared to the A7R II? I'm not talking noise or DR but pixel level sharpness.

Here's an example:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56309041

Not a great test setup but it is his second set of images that show the A7RII noticeably softer when using his Sony FE 16-35. Check out the left side in particular. His A7RII copy is appears to be soft.

-Brian



Aug 13, 2015 at 06:06 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


You're welcome. I see a big difference here.
Keep in mind that the amount of noise is very excessive for this DR test since all images were pushed almost 5EV. When capturing well exposed images, noise levels will of course be way better.



Aug 13, 2015 at 06:12 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


snapsy wrote:
Nice test Fred. To my eye the A7rII has about a 1.5EV DR advantage at the highest ISO you tested, about in line with the sensor-based measurements that have been posted.


You are right on. Added 51200 and 102400 ISO crops for the Sony A7RII.



Aug 13, 2015 at 06:31 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Fred Miranda wrote:
You're welcome. I see a big difference here.
Keep in mind that the amount of noise is very excessive for this DR test since all images were pushed almost 5EV. When capturing well exposed images, noise levels will of course be way better.


Once you get past the analog gain ISO the noise between higher nominal ISO vs lower ISO then pushed in PP should be the same. This is why a sensor with more High ISO DR shows its advantage more as the ISO increases - a higher nominal ISO is exactly what you're doing by shooting a lower ISO and pushing; it's pulling deeper from the shadows and bringing them into the lower midtones. For example what are shadows in an ISO 6400 image become lower midtones in an ISO 25,600 image.



Aug 13, 2015 at 06:34 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Thank you Fred for the test. It's interesting to see that the A7RII is grainier in the solid part but it has much more well-defined edges of the color block. And the grains on the A7RII are tighter and more pleasing. Anyway, about a little more than 1EV improvement.


Aug 13, 2015 at 06:37 PM
Schlotkins
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Thanks Fred. These clearly show a DR advantage for the II starting at ISO800. I would say it's close to a full stop improvement at least.

Chris



Aug 13, 2015 at 06:52 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Wow, very noticeably better and the cube wasn't even in the pitch black part of the scene.
The SNR+DR high ISO combo seems to be noticeable improved.
Better improvement than I expected!
That is one heck of a sensor! Between this, the low ISO DR and it being bale to handle oversampled 4k video and all at 42MP!


Edited on Aug 14, 2015 at 12:16 AM · View previous versions



Aug 14, 2015 at 12:12 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Moroni wrote:
The A7RII is obviously noticeably cleaner, which in turn should make it cleaner than the D810 as well.

Thanks Fred!

BTW, are you noticing the A7RII images to be softer compared to the A7R II? I'm not talking noise or DR but pixel level sharpness.

Here's an example:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56309041

Not a great test setup but it is his second set of images that show the A7RII noticeably softer when using his Sony FE 16-35. Check out the left side in particular. His A7RII copy is appears to be soft.

-Brian


That sort of test is notoriously difficult to carry out precisely though. The TINIEST change in exactly placement of focus depth can often cause a great difference in edge performance in scenes of this sort. So it might simply be down to placement of focus. Although it could be tilted lens mount or something else. But it could easily just be a slight movement in camera alignement and focusng in each test.




Aug 14, 2015 at 12:15 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Also it could be he left Steady Shot ON for the A7RII. That could rob some resolution when shooting on a tripod. The FE 16-35 f/4 has OSS and the A7RII has IBIS. By turning Steady Shot OFF, lens and camera stabilization will be deactivated. I have it OFF for all my tripod tests.



skibum5 wrote:
That sort of test is notoriously difficult to carry out precisely though. The TINIEST change in exactly placement of focus depth can often cause a great difference in edge performance in scenes of this sort. So it might simply be down to placement of focus. Although it could be tilted lens mount or something else. But it could easily just be a slight movement in camera alignement and focusng in each test.





Aug 14, 2015 at 01:05 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Very good, looks like a 1 stop improvement in shadow noise around ISO 3200, not 2 stops as Guy reported initially.

Shadow detail recovery above about 12800 looks to be about 2 stops better though.



Aug 14, 2015 at 02:32 AM
Stoffer
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Very nice, thanks for doing this Fred.


Aug 14, 2015 at 02:39 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Thanks Fred! The A7R did better than I expected. ISO1600 on the A7R looks better than 3200 on the A7RII, so less than one stop for my type of shooting. Both cameras seem to take a big hit in IQ going from 1600 to 3200 anyway.

I prefer the smoother and more consistent grain size of the A7R over the A7RII (where the blues and greens look a little rough and wormy in places) up to ISO1600. I mainly shoot at base ISO, but find myself going up to ISO1600 on rare occasions. I can continue to happily shoot at ISO400 to 1600 on my A7R. ISO400 and 800 look especially good to me



Aug 14, 2015 at 04:03 AM
Matt Grum
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Thanks for doing the test! It's a worthwhile improvement in the range I would actually shoot (I don't forsee going above 12800 'in real life').

The blue channel looks noisier at ISO400, different dyes in the CFA perhaps? Or an artifact of resampling (would be interested to see unresampled A7RII crops).

It appears the A7RII sets the black point correctly much better also so maybe that has something to do with it.



Aug 14, 2015 at 04:55 AM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


alundeb wrote:
Very good, looks like a 1 stop improvement in shadow noise around ISO 3200, not 2 stops as Guy reported initially.

Shadow detail recovery above about 12800 looks to be about 2 stops better though.


I use C1 for raw processing. I encourage everyone to try it. This is a Sony / Phase partnership and these Sonys are very good in C1. There profiles are very well done. Many folks are reporting C1 works better. The cataloging sucks but are you concerned first and foremost about IQ or storage. Storage for your images which LR is good at but its not a great raw converter. Don't take my word for it try it yourself. I still think it's getting close to two stops going by my eye. I have not tested it though. The good part it's really better than what we had, that's the part that counts. But you folks really need to try C1 on this cam. Not that I don't trust the user of the test, I don't trust the data from LR because I don't use it.

BTW I was more talking about noise than DR which A7r at 800 looks very similar to R2 at 3200. I can really use the higher ISO advantage because of PR work in lower light with a F4 zoom just can't focus very well. It's why I bought 2 24-70 F4 Sonys and sold them bot , rented it 5 times and finally gave up on it but with this body I'm thinking it will focus better pushing the higher ISO levels and I'm looking to buy it back again. I just have this feeling it may actually work on this body.

Fred nice test. I know these tests are a PITA so thanks for the effort. I'm just not a LR fan at all.



Aug 14, 2015 at 06:50 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


GMPhotography wrote:
I use C1 for raw processing. I encourage everyone to try it. This is a Sony / Phase partnership and these Sonys are very good in C1. There profiles are very well done. Many folks are reporting C1 works better. The cataloging sucks but are you concerned first and foremost about IQ or storage. Storage for your images which LR is good at but its not a great raw converter. Don't take my word for it try it yourself. I still think it's getting close to two stops going by my eye. I have not tested it though. The good
...Show more

I use C1 too, and don't see why the relative difference between the A7r and A7r II in C1 would be any different from the relative difference between the A7r and A7r II in LR/ACR.

And I don't believe for a second that the general noise at ISO 3200 with the r II looks similar to 800 with the r. The difference in general noise is even less that for the shadow noise.



Aug 14, 2015 at 07:17 AM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Noise looks better in C1 is all I can tell you. There also complete diffrent programs that take data from the raws in a diffrent way. C1 uses ICC profiles that are custom made for the camera and LR does not use ICC profiling.


Aug 14, 2015 at 07:41 AM
hcubell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


Thanks for the test results. While "color" itself was not part of the test, the way the A7RII handles yellows v. the A7R is interesting. The yellow patch with the A7RII is both low in saturation and has, to my eye, a considerable green cast.


Aug 14, 2015 at 07:41 AM
sflxn
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A7RII vs A7R DR test at HIGH ISO


hcubell wrote:
Thanks for the test results. While "color" itself was not part of the test, the way the A7RII handles yellows v. the A7R is interesting. The yellow patch with the A7RII is both low in saturation and has, to my eye, a considerable green cast.


Oh, wow. Thanks for pointing that out. This coincide with the following thread I just saw on DPR,

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56299927

The images make those two women look like they're about to turn into incredible hulks. Inability to handle yellows might help explain some of it? I'm hoping this can be fixed with a firmware, but I don't think it will be the case.



Aug 14, 2015 at 07:57 AM
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