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Archive 2015 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens

  
 
magnumjoe
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Hello All,
My grandsons soccer season is due to start in a month or two. Last year I used my 5D MK III with a 70-200 f.2.8 IS II, I had to crop a lot, so I've added a 7D Mark II and a 1.4 TC III to my gear. I think I'm in good shape for his day games, but the other half of his games are evenings 5:30, 6:30, and possible 7:30 under a poorly lit field. For his 6:30 games I shot had to shoot at 1/500 / f2.8 / 12,800 was it got dark. So here's where I need your suggestions.

Option 1
I have my eye on the Sigma 120-300 lens. I could swing the "Sports" model, but I'm finding it hard to justify spending $1000.00 more, if the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX DG OS APO HSM will do. Another reason, if from what I have read, the Sigma's aren't actually 280mm instead of 300mm. Which is the same reach at my 5D MK III the 1.4 TC, but I lose a stop.

Option 2
Use my 7D MK II & Canon 70-200 f2. 8 II, which gets me a longer reach, but from my experiences ISO 6400 is about as high as I want to go, thus is the reason why I'm leaning towards option 1.

Option 3
This option is even more expensive, buying a used Canon 300mm f/2.8 IS version 1, which is even more unjustified for shooting youth soccer. The pros of this option is, a true 300mm reach and it retains its value. The con would be the learning curve to shoot with two cameras.

Anyway, I'm sure many of you have been down this path, hence is why I"m asking for your help.



Jul 22, 2015 at 09:38 PM
bpalermini
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


7DII + 200mm = 320mm/f2.8 so that is definitely the first thing to try. You might be able to do some learning about noise reduction in post to make the 7DII work for you.

A 300mm f2.8 is an amazing lens. If the cost is not an issue go for it. Any version with IS is fine.You will not be disappointed but you really will want to use it on your 7DII. 400mm or a bit more are what you really want for soccer.

I've never used the Sigma but based on my experience and seeing lots of others photos it is almost impossible to beat the big white Canon lenses.



Jul 22, 2015 at 10:22 PM
P Alesse
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Just a few more questions...
1) What is your budget range?
2) How old is your grandson? Size of field and size of player determines how much the subject will fill the frame.
3) How mobile are you on the sidelines? Are you able to roam freely or do you need to stay in a fixed location?

I kinda got confused with your option 3... I don't understand your claim of it being unjustified or why you would need to shoot two cameras.



Jul 23, 2015 at 03:09 AM
Trevorma
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


I honestly think that the Sigma 120-300 would be your best option. If you are having a tough time justifying the cost of the Sigma I would think the Canon 300mm 2.8 would be ruled out almost right away.

When I started out shooting sports I was using the old non-OS version of the 120-300. I shot many of MLB, MLS and NHL games with it. I would say that I never missed a shot because of the lens, it was always me, or something I did to cause the miss. Optically it was great.

I think you, as an amateur, would also appreciate the zoom function of the lens.

I get that it might not be as good as the 300mm primes by Nikon or Canon, but if price is an issue (which it seems like it is) and you are not making a living using the lens (which I don't think it sounds like you are) then the 120-300 should suit your needs just fine. Granted you don't get the cool factor that comes with walking around with a white lens on the body but......

Keep in mind on the 7D II (1.6x Crop) it's a 192-480 @ 2.8, buy a 1.4x TC for the daytime games and you are right up close to the action......

Just my 2 cents worth......



Jul 23, 2015 at 07:34 AM
ahender
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


I am an amateur sports photographer and here's my take. I have the 7DII, 70-200 II and the 1.4TC. I love this combination for day games. Even with the bare 70-200 II, I never shoot night games. I try to shoot the first half of poorly lit games. The second half I just enjoy watching the game.

When I shoot my daughter's high school games, I shoot next to a fellow parent who has the 7DII and 120-300 Sport. He's a semi-professional and he never shoots night games. I think the primary reason is the low light focusing of the 7D II and 120-300 is poor. He has stated it hunts a lot in low light.

When comparing the 70-200 II plus 1.4 TC with the 120-300 in daylight, the 70-200 plus TC acquires focus much faster and is much easier to handle. The images from the 120-300, shot at 2.8, do look better.

If the OP is considering a fixed lens, one thought would be to take your 70-200 with TC and set it to maximum focal length and see if you can adjust to not having the option to zoom. I also have the 300 f4 and used it for years. Last season I tried it for one game and went back to the zoom.

If I were a professional and only needed a few awesome shots per game, the 400 2.8 would be the obvious choice for a full size field.

As the volunteer photographer for my daughter's HS team, I need images of pretty much every player each and every game. The zoom gets it done for me, but only when the light is good.




Jul 23, 2015 at 08:07 AM
magnumjoe
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


bpalermini,
Learning or finding a better noise reduction tool is a great idea, I've been using LR 6 but I tried Topaz DeNoise and it seemed to work pretty well.

P Alesse,
1. Well I can get a used Sigma 120-300 EX DG OS f/2.8 for 1799.00, that's the non sports model, that's really were I'd like to set my budget, IF it can do the job as good as the new Sigma 120-300 Sports model can. From what I've read the sports model is sharper.

2. My grandsons are 6 and 4 playing on U6 and U8 teams, the field is a bit smaller and I'm pretty set for the day games, its the night games is where I'm trying to find a solutions. They'll both have about 14 games each and half of those will be games after 5:30 in the fall.

3. I can move around freely, last year I shot from the sideline close to the goal, the was a problem for night games because that was the darkest part of the field.

4. The reason I'd need 2 camera is because when the got close I'm afraid I'd miss the shot.

Trevorma,
Your probably right I probably would be better with a zoom until I get use to shooting at 300mm fixed.

Ahender,
Shooting night games are 1/2 of their games, so even though they may have noise I still need to get shots of the game. I shoot for the team as well not just my grandsons.

Thanks everyone, I'm still trying to decide what's best. I'm leaning towards the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX DG OS APO HSM (non-sports) and using my 5D MK III for the night games.

Edited on Jul 23, 2015 at 12:14 PM · View previous versions



Jul 23, 2015 at 09:41 AM
ahender
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


This thread on the Sigma 120-300 might be worth reading.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=42792



Jul 23, 2015 at 10:41 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Joe,

For starters you have two bodies, that's good. Bottom line, if you are semi-serious in regards to shooting soccer then a two body rig is where you will eventually end up. The difficulty is getting comfortable knowing when to put down the big gun and pick up the 70-200 rig. This point continually changes as play and action evolve within a match but, certain aspects remain constant i.e. distance and how much you are willing to crop and still be satisfied with the IQ. No easy formula, you have to feel your way.

On to glass. If the kids are on a short field 300mm is fine from a reach perspective. Issue I'm reading here is the light. If all you were able to obtain with 2.8 glass was 1/500 @ ISO 12,800 then that's basically what you can expect from the the 120-300. SS necessary at this age level is generally less than high school but you are close to the bottom with 1/500. For comparison, I've had U14 girls striking the ball where the entire foot was a blur and that was at 1/1250. The 5D3 can handle high ISO so don't be afraid to go to 16,000 or 25,600. If exposed properly (not under) they can be cleaned up. Plenty of examples on my website of high ISO shots (most with the 1DX but the 5D3 is very similar in ISO handling). I've not had any experience with the 7D2 in regards to high ISO handling but the other pro next to me at NASL soccer games uses one. If the 120-300 copy you are looking at is a good one then it would allow you to operate with one body. I suggest you take advantage of the coming season and bring the 2nd body along to start getting familiar with operating a 2 body rig.

The BIG field: IMHO, 300mm is too short. Used one ( 2.8 IS, which I loved btw) for a number of years due to finances and had to wait for the action to come to me thus missing a number of good peak moments at mid field. Full sided fields require 400 2.8 glass. BTW, sold the 300 to help finance a used 400 2.8 IS.

Hope you find a good copy of the 120-300. If local, test it out thoroughly to ensure in AI Servo that shots of on coming object can be captured successfully, and are sharp!

Matt




Jul 23, 2015 at 04:24 PM
magnumjoe
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Thank you scholtz, your reply was very informative and spot on for I was looking for. I saw your post, your images are so clean, that's where I want to be in a few years.


Jul 23, 2015 at 11:32 PM
magnumjoe
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


ahender thank you, for sharing the link, I'm focused on the new 120-300 sport lens now, I think that's the best option for me. Going to rent it, and if it can keep focus on those night games, I'm buying it.


Jul 23, 2015 at 11:35 PM
gene2632
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Renting is a great idea for a trial. With the very limited light consider shooting RAW and going a stop under to keep your shutter speed up. You can then use what ever raw converter you want to open up that stop with a minimal loss of quality compared to shooting JPGs. I have used this the past few years shooting D3 and smaller D1 venues with substandard lighting. Clients were very happy with the end result.


Jul 25, 2015 at 07:40 PM
magnumjoe
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Hi Gene,
Thank you for the post. I'm a bit confused, when you say "going a stop under", does that mean to shot at f4.0 instead of f/2.8?



Jul 25, 2015 at 08:29 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


BTW: if you are in the US you can rent from Lensrentals.com. If you like the lens they probably will sell it to you and your rent counts as part of the sale. Check out their website to see if this lens is part of that deal.

Matt



Jul 25, 2015 at 11:09 PM
magnumjoe
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


Matt,
I love Lensrentals.com, I've bought 2 lens from them, rent it, keep it. I have nothing be good things to say about LensRentals.com.



Jul 25, 2015 at 11:38 PM
ScooterShooter
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


ahender wrote:
I am an amateur sports photographer and here's my take. I have the 7DII, 70-200 II and the 1.4TC. I love this combination for day games. Even with the bare 70-200 II, I never shoot night games. I try to shoot the first half of poorly lit games. The second half I just enjoy watching the game.


I echo this sentiment. I have a Nikon D610 with 70-200 2.8 VR-I, and once it is fully dark, I can only get a reasonably acceptable photo if the player is very close (i.e., minimal cropping required).



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:14 AM
ScooterShooter
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


magnumjoe wrote:
Ahender,
Shooting night games are 1/2 of their games, so even though they may have noise I still need to get shots of the game. I shoot for the team as well not just my grandsons.


Two thoughts:

1) I have a 85mm f/1.8 that I will sometimes use at night. Something like that might help you in lower light when the action is nearby.

2) Is flash out of the question here? We're talking U6/U8, so maybe parents/coaches would be more interested in the photos than they would be in the flash disrupting the game.




Sep 20, 2017 at 08:19 AM
ScooterShooter
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


magnumjoe wrote:
Hi Gene,
Thank you for the post. I'm a bit confused, when you say "going a stop under", does that mean to shot at f4.0 instead of f/2.8?


I believe he means that you should underexpose by a stop (likely faster shutter speed at f/2.8), and then lighten it up in post-processing.




Sep 20, 2017 at 08:21 AM
photomarkz
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


look at tamron 300 f2.8. been a night sports shooter for 40 years. always used a canon 200 f2.8
back in film days shot with a tamron 300 f2.8. sigma 120-300 f 2.8 lens is not sharp. hunts for focus a lot.if u can afford a canon 300 f2.8 lens that is what i would buy. tack sharp.



Sep 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Need Help with a Night Soccer Game Lens


schlotz wrote:
Joe,

For starters you have two bodies, that's good. Bottom line, if you are semi-serious in regards to shooting soccer then a two body rig is where you will eventually end up. The difficulty is getting comfortable knowing when to put down the big gun and pick up the 70-200 rig. This point continually changes as play and action evolve within a match but, certain aspects remain constant i.e. distance and how much you are willing to crop and still be satisfied with the IQ. No easy formula, you have to feel your way.

On to glass. If the kids are
...Show more

I'll add to the above commentary. As a general comparison, there is about 1 stop difference in high iso noose between the 5diii and 7dii. The 7dii crop would be an inexpensive way to extend your reach using a 100-300. Schlotz being a pro is more use the moving during a game. As a dad, I move once at halftime when the sides change. With 400mm on a 7dii at times I have felt like Schlots in that I needed to wait for action to come to me but that was because of my lack of movement along the sideline. Anyway, if proper exposure, the 7dii can produce usable pics at 12k and 16k with respective expectations and LR NR with masking, and are not falling apart. But your field at EV iso 12k f2.8 and 1/500 shoukd carry low expectations. I hated 1/800 with HIgh School soccer as I new not all shots were possible without blurr. Most were ok, but not all. So this might temper your investment and choose to focus more on daytime. Or consider an f2.0 200mm to gain a stop and get to 1/1000 along with continued patience.



Sep 24, 2017 at 05:57 PM





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