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Archive 2015 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

nebula
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

So my original strategy with the A7 was to get small aesthetically pleasing rangefinder lenses. That notion disintegrated when I realized that Zeiss Distagon SLR lenses performed, I assume optimally, with the A7, in comparison to RF lenses generally, so I just gave up on that endeavor. And they are wonderful and seem to render magnificently, despite my deficiencies. I have the 2.8/25, 2/25, 1.4/35, 2/50, 2/100 and 2/135 Zeiss lenses. I also have Leica-R 1.4/80 and 1.4/50 (early version). Overall I like this set-up.

However, it occurs to me that if I were to sell the 1.4/35 (which does rock) I could replace it with a whole separate system, namely, the RX1 (granted, it's only an f2). I'm realizing that my recent style is geared somewhat toward that focal length and I'd like to get some opinions on the pluses and minuses of making this swap.

The question sort of boils down to: all other things equal, is it better to have the 1.4/35 or the RX1?

Jan 12, 2015 at 08:55 PM

MAubrey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Well, it may be 'only f/2,' but really there isn't a whole lot of difference between f/1.4 and f/2.

The RX1 lens is incredibly sharp. You won't be loosing anything for image quality, that's for sure. And that leaf shutter is pretty awesome, too.

Alternatively, if f/1.4 really matters to you, it might be wise to wait and see how the forthcoming native 35mm f/1.4 performs on your A7 before making your decision. For my part, the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 stays glued to my A7 about 75% of the time.

If it's a choice solely between the Zeiss 1.4/35, and the RX1, I'd probably go for the RX1, but I'm also not sure that, if it were my decision, I'd be able to limit the choices solely to those two...

I guess I'm not very helpful...

Jan 12, 2015 at 10:02 PM

banpreso
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

A7 with a rangefinder 40mm ish lens is very compact, and you still have a viewfinder. RX1 is nice, but no viewfinder, and i think the price of RX1 will drop over the years, vs. lenses prices are steady.

Jan 12, 2015 at 10:38 PM

nebula
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

MAubrey, how troublesome is that lens to focus at 1.2?

Jan 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

'i think the price of RX1 will drop over the years'

This line has been run since the little device appeared, one guy wanted to wait a year for it be worth $1000. That was two years ago. People seem to overlook the fact that the camera has the best overall 35mm lens attached to its body, and that most used ones will come with the EVF. It has the highest power-to-weight ratio in the full frame world.

OP, you can guess my opinion. While shooting I'm never without the silent and deadly RX1.

Looking at the mockup of the forthcoming D35/1.4 from Sony, I'd say its a fair bet it will outweigh the RX1 all by itself. The better sized ZM 35/1.4 is just 100 grams less than the entire RX1, and still needs a camera to make it work, though I bet it looks good in the glass case in the dining room, all by itself.

That ZM unit on Leica's M240 body tips the scales at 1060 grams, more than twice the RX1 weight, and an a7 plus the new FE Distagon won't be much different. An a7 plus ZF 35/2 is all of 995 grams. That's the value of a light body. FYI.

Jan 12, 2015 at 11:57 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

A third down this page:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/09/field-curvature-and-stopping-down

..will show you why the ZF 35/1.4 can never do what the RX1 manages so effortlessly, by the way. Of course, fast 35s have their own niche in the world but some of us need to travel light and so need true versatility in our work.

I need a flat field for murals and facades, and I like it for statuary and people too - flat field lenses shape image objects more authentically, the photographer gets the feeling they are making the image, with less intrusion from the designer. Finally, flat fields allow you to place the point of focus in the outer frame and lose much less quality.

The RX1 also has a nifty macro which to some degree reduces the need for a faster aperture. Focus fade is fast too, so few complain about lens speed.

Jan 13, 2015 at 12:09 AM

nebula
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Good posts, thanks Phillip. It's funny, because for the price of the 1.4/35 I can practically have the esteemed RX1. Interesting situation right? I do have another 1.4 lens, the 80mm 'lux.

Jan 13, 2015 at 12:30 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

there is no question in my mind that the rx1 is a better lens.

i have the rx1 and c/y 35/1.4, but i've played with the zf 35/1.4 a bit. the rx1 (camera included) is smaller than zf 35/1.4 by itself and better performing from f/2 on. the rx1 also has (mediocre) AF and the ability to shoot silently. i use it in environments i would never feel comfortable shooting the a7 with it's loud shutter.

unfortunately, the rx1 has obnoxious focus by wire manual focus and slow AF. when i want to capture people moving about i find shooting the a7 with real manual focus glass much more enjoyable. for this reason i want to try out the zm 35/1.4. if that doesn't work out, i'll probably try to take an rx1 apart and see if i can give it a real focus ring.

Jan 13, 2015 at 12:39 AM

R.Young
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

I'm in the same boat as Sebboh, I own the RX1R and C/Y 35 1.4, but I'm dying for an RX1 with a 35 1.4 or a smaller 35 1.4 than the C/Y for my A7R. 35mm is my favourite focal length, however, and others may disagree, I find f2 to be a little flat while 1.4 seems to create medium format feeling images at certain focus distances. I'd love a 35 1.4 solution which is as small as the RX1, in fact that would probably be enough for me to sell most of my other cameras and lenses and just be happy. But until then I'll swap between lenses and cameras for different situations.

Jan 13, 2015 at 02:54 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

nebula wrote:
So my original strategy with the A7 was to get small aesthetically pleasing rangefinder lenses. That notion disintegrated when I realized that Zeiss Distagon SLR lenses performed, I assume optimally, with the A7, in comparison to RF lenses generally, so I just gave up on that endeavor. And they are wonderful and seem to render magnificently, despite my deficiencies. I have the 2.8/25, 2/25, 1.4/35, 2/50, 2/100 and 2/135 Zeiss lenses. I also have Leica-R 1.4/80 and 1.4/50 (early version). Overall I like this set-up.

However, it occurs to me that if I were to sell the 1.4/35 (which does...Show more →

I have the ZE 35 f1/4 and I do love the lens. Many people look to longer focal length lenses and want those with faster apertures and that does make sense as these lenses will need faster shutter speeds, but I find I want a wide aperture at 35mm because I appreciate the shallower depth of field. I like at least f/1.4 at 35mm. I also like the short MFD of the ZE 35 f/1.4. So, I wouldn't trade f/1.4 for the lovely lens in the RX1 even if it wasn't attached to the camera. I see that the camera comes with the lens as a drawback. I know I will be in the minority on this one, but I don't think the camera is in anyway superior to the A7 (I count the shutter as being part of the lens) and it adds a lot of bulk. Carrying the RX1 and my A7 II kit would actually add more volume (but a lot less weight) than adding my ZE 35 f/1.4. Adding a ZM f/1.4 or Voigt 35 f/1.2 would add no more weight and a lot less volume, and provides a fast 35 which for me is what matters most.

Jan 14, 2015 at 12:01 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Steve Spencer wrote:
I have the ZE 35 f1/4 and I do love the lens. Many people look to longer focal length lenses and want those with faster apertures and that does make sense as these lenses will need faster shutter speeds, but I find I want a wide aperture at 35mm because I appreciate the shallower depth of field. I like at least f/1.4 at 35mm. I also like the short MFD of the ZE 35 f/1.4. So, I wouldn't trade f/1.4 for the lovely lens in the RX1 even if it wasn't attached to the camera. I see that the...Show more →

steve, i think your numbers are off, the rx1 is smaller than the ZE 35/1.4 by itself, so carrying the rx1 + a7II would reduce volume versus the a7II + ZE 35/1.4. also the rx1 has a closer mfd then the ZE 35/1.4.

as far as which camera is better, the rx1 definitely has better build and is more responsive – the difference in shutter lag is staggering. the a7II has a better evf, flip screen lcd, better shutter location, better grip, and can of course take other lenses.

Jan 14, 2015 at 12:22 AM

millsart
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

The 35/2 Sonnar on the RX1 is the single best lens overall I've owned of any focal length. Tough of course to compare to different focal lengths, but the overall combination of its across the frame sharpness, creamy bokeh, compact size, and just overall way of rendering is unmatched.

A large part of this is due to its unique design of being custom paired to the sensor. If you look at a cut away of the camera/lens, the rear element is massive, and right against the sensor. Its a big advantage of a fixed lens camera design.

I've bought and sold the RX1 3 times over, always thinking that each newer edition of the A7 series I buy would eliminate my need for it, and it never does.

Lens like the VC 35 and 40 have a unique look, and are fun (thought I hate the focus tab which is really uncomfortable) but they render totally opposite from the smooth creamy Zeiss look of the Sonnar. Harsh ugly bokeh, which has its place, but still, night and day.

Likewise, the 35/2.8 FE....decent lens, small size, nice cost, but so clinical and boring. Again, pretty dramatic difference

Sigma 35/1.5, ZE 35/1.4, VC 35/1.2 et al... some pretty nice optics, but all just so darn big, and for me anyways, something I totally want to leave at home. I didn't mind 35/1.4's when I was shooting big pro body DSLR's like the D3s, but on the A7 they just don't balance that well. Defeated the whole point of a small mirrorless kit, which I bought because I didn't want to drag around the DSLR rig I use for my paid work.

That is where the real beauty of the RX1 comes in and remains unmatched. Its this tiny little camera that hardly looks more than a high end P&S, but that can produce these amazing files, with IQ that rivals anything else I've owned.

I can add a little daylight fill with its pop-up flash if needed thanks to the 1/2000th sync speed of the leaf shutter. I can shoot nearly silently (with no jello cam effect) again thanks to the leaf shutter.

I can slip it into my jacket pocket if I want to even.

Its not a perfect camera, and can't replace the A7, but at the same time, the A7 can't replace it either.

Its just a unique little masterpiece that surely will go down as a classic camera.

At $2800 new, it was a little step, but now you can get one for about half that, which is pretty incredible. 24meg FF sensor with Zeiss 35/2 lens and in one of the best feeling builds short of Leica, and all for $1500 or so.... can't beat that

Jan 14, 2015 at 12:36 AM

millsart
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

sebboh wrote:
steve, i think your numbers are off, the rx1 is smaller than the ZE 35/1.4 by itself, so carrying the rx1 + a7II would reduce volume versus the a7II + ZE 35/1.4. also the rx1 has a closer mfd then the ZE 35/1.4.

as far as which camera is better, the rx1 definitely has better build and is more responsive – the difference in shutter lag is staggering. the a7II has a better evf, flip screen lcd, better shutter location, better grip, and can of course take other lenses.

Having both, I honestly prefer the feel of the shutter button, and the overall button location of the RX1, provided I have the grip attached. I actually just have a cheap $60 L bracket combo grip I got from Amazon, that comes with a very nicely curved hand grip that blends really well with the overall body shape. It just fits my hand perfectly.

Had the Fotodiox one and it was useable but not comfortable. The curve of this one, blended into the body fits right into the palm of my hand and my finger falls right on the shutter button. To each his own of course, but this thing feels like it was made custom for me.

The A7 II grip is a big improvement over the A7 though. The A7 was downright uncomfortable to hold. Still though, I think the RX1 handles better.

Would maybe be nice to have a flip out screen (ideally with touch to select AF point) but maybe in the RX2.....

RX1 has the best feeling shutter of any camera I've owned as well. A7 series feels like mush in comparison.

web image

Jan 14, 2015 at 12:44 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

sebboh wrote:
steve, i think your numbers are off, the rx1 is smaller than the ZE 35/1.4 by itself, so carrying the rx1 + a7II would reduce volume versus the a7II + ZE 35/1.4. also the rx1 has a closer mfd then the ZE 35/1.4.

as far as which camera is better, the rx1 definitely has better build and is more responsive – the difference in shutter lag is staggering. the a7II has a better evf, flip screen lcd, better shutter location, better grip, and can of course take other lenses.

Actually my numbers aren't off. The RX1 is listed as 113.3mm X 65.4mm X 69.6mm or 515700 cubic mm. (of course the thickness dimension isn't filled in all the way, but the other two dimensions are and in terms of space in a bag with the lenses in the middle it would pretty much take up that much volume. The Zeiss ZE 35 f/1.4 is 78mm in diameter and 98mm long, so 468300 cubic mm in volume. If you left an adapter on it, however, it would be 592500 cubic mm, so without the adapter the ZE 35 actually has a smaller volume, but with an adapter it is a little more and a lot heavier. More to my point the Voigt 35 f/1.2 has a volume of 208500 cubic mm with an adapter and the ZM 35 f/1.4 has a volume of 235300 cubic mm with an adapter, so these lenses are half the size (but about the same weight) as the RX1. So for me, yes the lens looks great, but you are adding a lot of bulk and unfortunately the lens does not focus in any way that I would like (I don't like focus by wire and I don't really like AF and if I had to use AF this system would be pretty far down the list) and it is slower than I would like. For me personally it just doesn't seem like much of an option.

Jan 14, 2015 at 01:02 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Steve Spencer wrote:
Actually my numbers aren't off. The RX1 is listed as 113.3mm X 65.4mm X 69.6mm or 515700 cubic mm. (of course the thickness dimension isn't filled in all the way, but the other two dimensions are and in terms of space in a bag with the lenses in the middle it would pretty much take up that much volume. The Zeiss ZE 35 f/1.4 is 78mm in diameter and 98mm long, so 468300 cubic mm in volume. If you left an adapter on it, however, it would be 592500 cubic mm, so without the adapter the ZE 35 actually...Show more →

yeah, pretending the rx1 is box shaped is what's throwing your volume calculation way off. i can fit the rx1 plus another lens in same space in my bag that i can just fit the ZE 35/1.4 into.

the cv 35/1.2 + adapter takes up about the same amount of space in my bag as the rx1, but of course that lens doesn't compare to the rx1. hopefully the zm 35/1.4 will...

Jan 14, 2015 at 01:09 AM

millsart
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

I'm maybe the odd man out (at least on the Alt forum) but one of my favorite things about the RX1 is its very accurate face detect AF.

Works fantastic as I can easily compose shots of family members one handed.

Makes it a great camera that you can use while holding a kid etc on a hike. Just much quicker and easier to me than trying to stop and manually focus (which requires a second hand too obviously)

I usually carry mine on a Black Rapid metro strap, so it just hangs right at my hip, and I can reach down with one hand, grab the camera, compose and shoot.

I do enjoy some MF alt glass in my collection, and it can be fun when I'm simply shooting, and nothing but shooting, but in the midst of family activity stuff, I think AF is a godsend, much less when I actually might be to be in a photo and have to hand the camera off to someone else.

I remember on one recent trip, I had a Oly 21/3.5 on my A7 and I prefocused, and the lens was stopped down pretty far, so all a random person had to do was take a group shot for me, and I get the camera back, check the shots and the images were all OOF.

Give them something with face detect, (which is familiar as its how the iPhone works I guess lol) and never an issue.

Likewise, people can't figure out the EVF on the A7 as they don't seem to know what a VF is these days (sad I know) and then hold the camera in a way that activates the eye sensor so the LCD turns off and then they go "I think it turned off....."

No wonder I'm actually only in about 0.01% of total family photos on my HD's

Jan 14, 2015 at 01:44 AM

darrellc
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

I can't sell my RX1. But I should sell it. I don't use it anymore. But a crazy disproportionate number of my favorite pics are from the RX1. So I should use it. But I have these A7x's and a few 35's, they just need the RIGHT 35mm lens to come along.

I want to do the statistical analysis sometime to quantify how much better my RX1 is at making keepers than all else. The AF is slow and takes a while to lock which means you miss some shots relying on AF, but I find that when it locks, it is super duper accurate.

I also hope the ZM 35/1.4 on A7x combo is close to the RX1 Sonnar. I've got the VC 35/1.2 v2 and I kinda like it, but I really only like it as it gets close to f/2 and above, and it isn't close to the RX1 at f/2.

Maybe Sony was waiting for IBIS (A7ii, check), integrated EVFs (RX100 v3, check), a new even better 24mp curved or something else fantastic sensor (check?) etc. before they release the RX2. So really soon, right?

Jan 14, 2015 at 03:07 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

darrellc wrote:
I also hope the ZM 35/1.4 on A7x combo is close to the RX1 Sonnar. I've got the VC 35/1.2 v2 and I kinda like it, but I really only like it as it gets close to f/2 and above, and it isn't close to the RX1 at f/2.

Regarding the ZM 35/1.4, going by it's performance on the A7s (tested by Sean Reid), it's certainly not going to compare to what the RX1 can do at F2 - 4 across the frame when used on the current A7 bodies. That said, I'm sure it's rendering will be extremely pleasing (oof, bokeh) from wide open. One of the unique attributes of the RX1 lens (beyond it's very pleasing bokeh) is just how much of the frame is sharp at brighter F-stops (F2-F4). The only way to get that with the ZM 35/1.4 currently is to use it on a Leica.

Jan 14, 2015 at 07:00 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Tariq Gibran wrote:
The only way to get that with the ZM 35/1.4 currently is to use it on a Leica.

Or perhaps a cover glass modified A7 series camera.

Jan 14, 2015 at 07:41 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Opinions on A7 + Zeiss 1.4/35 vs RX1

Steve Spencer wrote:
Or perhaps a cover glass modified A7 series camera.

Maybe. The jury is still out on that one. Beyond just the cover glass thickness, the actual sensor microlens design may be different enough on the Leica M240 to still make a noticeable difference.
http://www.overgaard.dk/thorstenovergaardcom_copyrighted_graphics/normal-versus-leica-m240-CMOS-sensor-design-microlenses-640w.jpg

Jan 14, 2015 at 07:50 AM

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