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Archive 2014 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"

  
 
timballic
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


shirozina wrote:
All a bit irrelevant now Sony seem to have sorted out their mount issues on newer cameras. One basic flaw in both these after-market mounts is the fact that the only points of contact on the body frame are the 4 raised lugs for the screws. These are not flat machined surfaces and on the fotodiox the bottom of the recessed hole is not flat either. This can mean the new adaptor does not seat itself flat on the 4 points and can be out of parallel alignment with the sensor. The former will make lens mounting very stiff and
...Show more

This is one thing I realised in the process of re-changing mine, the accuracy of depth of these four holes is the most critical part rather than the accuracy of thickness all round. At least the holes on my Signature edition do seem to be well machined, with a flat base surface. However, I don't possess an accurate enough depth gauge to test if all four are exactly the same depth.



Aug 25, 2015 at 12:52 PM
timballic
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


I now have a more precise testing set up, but soon found that the Micro-Nikkor 55/2.8 on adapter wasn't giving very meaningful results, so I now have a used FE 55/1.8 on the way for testing. Not a lens on my radar, yet I've never read a bad report on it. Maybe I'll even keep it after the testing is over ;o)

Quite surprised at the differences between my two A7 bodies. AWB very different and the newer A7 has a much louder shutter, so loud that I had to check EFCS was indeed on and working! Also the newer one has a much tighter mount. I doubt the seller ever changed lenses. Plus much more solid tripod fitting, mine has become quite loose by comparison. Why aren't any A7's designed so that the mechanical shutter covers the sensor when the lens is off, or is the shutter more vulnerable than the sensor



Aug 26, 2015 at 11:11 AM
timballic
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Just re testing with the new FE 55/1.8. Wow! What a lens! Wide open it's like several veils have been removed, especially in the corners. Completely blows away the Nikkor 55/2.8 wide open!
However, whilst the older A7 is now looking perfect (with its own mount back in place) it's now the newer one that's showing up issues! Obviously the adapters were hiding SO much.

Now at last I can make sense of my results, at least I can when I work out how to completely turn off AF, at the moment, even though I've set up back-focus, it still keeps jumping back in and messing things up, or at least something happens to alter focus between focussing manually and the exposure!?

Ah, my old F2/F3 film Nikons used to be SO much easier to live with.



Aug 28, 2015 at 08:44 AM
timballic
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Final Results after testing with FE 55/1.8. (What a lens! Sharp corner to corner wide open!)

Native mount, all four corners equally sharp and all equally in focus.
Signature Tough E mount, all four corners perfectly in focus!

No decentering at all. I repeated the results again and again

I can commend the Signature version. However, there is a caveat, read on:

I found my father's accurate depth gauge and did more measurements:

These are the holes in the Signature mount, which have been milled flat, but are slightly burred.
Signature Tough E by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

This is one of the four pillars they "register" on.
A7 Mount pillar by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Sony outer mount thickness, consistently 0.059" (1.5mm)
Native mount thickness by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Signature's thickness from the "flat" to the face of the mount, 0.061" (1.55mm) and are each the same depth. That 0.002" (0.005mm) difference from the native mount, could be enough to cause a problem with infinity settings on some lenses!
Signature thickness in recesses by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

I wonder if the shiny inside edge could be a problem?
Signature Tough E by Timothy Ball, on Flickr



Sep 01, 2015 at 11:57 AM
shirozina
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Are you sure the stock mount rests on the raised lugs for the screws? I thought it rested on the plastic spacer?


Sep 02, 2015 at 02:22 PM
timballic
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Not much difference, as the black spacer fills the gap between the outer aluminium "face" and the lower tensioning plate, up to the level of the top of the pillars, so the outer plate rests both on the pillars and the spacer. the plastic spacer has holes so that it sits at the same level with the top of the"pillars" which pass through it. The outer aluminium mount sits on the pillars and screws firmly onto them. Sorry I didn't take the picture of these stages, but I think these show it better than I could:
First showing the lower tensioning plate. http://www.photoclubalpha.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/plasticremoved.jpg
Then the plastic spacer .http://www.photoclubalpha.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/plasticnbayonet.jpg

The whole article they came from is good too: http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2014/10/27/the-fotodiox-tough-e-mount/

Edited on Sep 03, 2015 at 02:41 AM · View previous versions



Sep 03, 2015 at 02:24 AM
timballic
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


The Shoten version, on pg 8 #8 of this thread, appears to have finer machining. I see that they sell as both "Chromed brass" and Stainless steel versions. Anyone here tried one? I can't find any user reviews.


Sep 03, 2015 at 02:36 AM
shirozina
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


For lenses that don't have a hard infinity stop ( like old MF lenses) is a very high tolerance in the sensor to flange distance actually that critical? A sensor flange exactly parallel with the sensor is obviously very important.


Sep 03, 2015 at 03:40 AM
timballic
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Exactly my thinking. Fine for FE lenses, but maybe a problem with hard infinity stop lenses.
However, now I've had experience with three A7 bodies testing at the same time, I think the flange to sensor distance varies quite a bit. This based on tests with my MD 100/2.5, as each body focusses to a slightly different place on the focus ring.
At 9' distance where I tested, the difference was nearly 1mm in rotation, between the three bodies, repeatably! If I still owned the ZF 100/2 I could probably see it even more clearly.
Each sensor : flange is parallel, (based on my centering tests), but obviously each is a slightly different distance apart.
I'm not about to put the gauges on it though, as the sensor wouldn't survive the scratching.



Sep 03, 2015 at 04:26 AM
agbas
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


I recently bought a Samsung( Rokinon) 12 mm f2 lens for my sony a6000 and find on my camera that there is considerable rotational movement between the lens and the camera mount. I know this https://youtu.be/I2Ek4JxKAJ0 is not a good video, shaky hands and a phone camera are my excuses, but this does show how much movement there is. I have checked the lens on my grand-daughters a6000 and there is much less movement when the lens is fitted to her camera than to mine.
I am wondering if the tough e mount would correct this.



Sep 26, 2015 at 07:49 PM
pdmphoto
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


I decided to fit my latest A7R with an all metal mount. In the past I went with the Fotodiox Tough Emount and was happy, but the machining was a little rough and some of my adapters would not fit.

This time I went with the Shotun. Machining and finish are noticeably better (just as good as pictured). Fit seems more precise and my problematic adapter fits perfect. Highly recommended.



Sep 27, 2015 at 12:39 AM
timballic
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Which Shoten version was it, the standard chromed finish or the stainless steel?


Sep 27, 2015 at 01:28 AM
pdmphoto
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


I thought there was only one - plated copper? Here's where I got mine. I only took a few days to arrive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-E-Mount-from-SHOTEN-Pro-Replacement-Lens-Mount-for-Sony-NEX-E-mount-/281791625671?

Mine looks just as good as these pics (nicely machined and finished on both sides)

http://gd2.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/20006877/TB29X0BbpXXXXaxXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!20006877.jpg

http://gd2.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/20006877/TB2oJpFbpXXXXXvXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!20006877.jpg



Sep 27, 2015 at 06:06 AM
timballic
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


As I have two A7's I thought I'd try a Shoten for the 2nd one and do a comparison between it and the Fotodiox Pro Signature Edition, that I got for the 1st one.
The Shoten is quite a bit cheaper as it can be obtained on eBay through Hong Kong.

The packaging was rather different, the Shoten arriving in a strong, fairly up-market, padded box, the Fotodiox Pro, in a simple thin cardboard filter box.
DPP_1 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Shoten box was lined with shaped foam and came with instructions (in Japanese only!)
DPP_2 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Fotodiox was simply in a plastic bag between two pieces of thin foam
DPP_3 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Shoten has a Satin Chrome finish, the FP Signature Edition is in bare Brass,
DPP_4 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

Underside: The FPSig is more substantial, with larger bayonet flanges
DPP_5 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Shoten is 2.5mm smaller outer diameter than the FPSig, which covers the mount of the A7
The Shoten weighs 24g, the FPSig 27g
DPP_6 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The bare Brass finish of the FPSig is quite a bit softer than the Shoten, and by the end of my measurements showed quite a few scratches
DPP_7 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Satin Chrome finish of the Shoten is quite a bit harder and was unmarked by the depth gauge
DPP_8 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The machining on the FPSig is a little rougher than the Shoten, but not bad
DPP_9 by Timothy Ball, on FlickrDPP_11 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Shoten finish is a little better, but I doubt it is significant(?)
DPP_10 by Timothy Ball, on FlickrDPP_12 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

However, the real difference is in the amount of variation between the two:
The main ring of both had only O.5 thou" variation around, so, a tie there.

The important dimension is the depth from front of the mount to the base of the machined holes.
Remember, I measured the front ring of the removed Sony mount at 59 thou"
Native mount thickness by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The FPSig depths only varied by 0.05 thou" from 60.5 - 61 thou" So ~ 1.5 thou" thicker than the original,
which could/would affect infinity focus with some legacy lenses.
Signature thickness in recesses by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

The Shoten holes on the other hand varied by 2.5 thou", from 58.5 - 61 thou", so a greater chance of causing off-centering!
DPP_13 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

Both makes feel much more secure and stop the rotational slack of the original.
You take your pick!



Oct 08, 2015 at 11:20 AM
pdmphoto
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


I'm surprised by the thickness variation measurement result of the Shotun. I didn't measure mine with a gauge, but I did do a before/after test with my Voightlander 15/4.5II. I saw no optical difference (both sides, and all corners equally sharp) with the Shotun adapter. True infinity position didn't change either. Just less play and better rigidity.

Your last picture showing the back of the Shotun adapter has it looking a little rougher than mine. The machining on mine was near perfect. Your picture of the Fotodiox PRo adapter machining looks a lot better than the standard Fotodiox E-Mount adapter I had. It was pretty rough. One screw hole was not clear enough to get a screw in properly without clearing out the hole first. One burr or rough spot can cause big problems with flatness or placement. It won't necessarily show up on a measurement with a caliper.



Oct 15, 2015 at 08:45 PM
timballic
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


pdmphoto: "One burr or rough spot can cause big problems with flatness or placement." I couldn't agree more.
I believe the Fotodiox Pro "Signature" series is a big improvement on their standard Tough E mount series.

Obviously, just being able to compare one mount from each, can only be an "indication".

"...less play and better rigidity", is my finding too, with both.

I have now bought a 4mm "End Mill" cutter to see if I can "fractionally" de-bur the flat bottom of the holes and get them exact.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281749400845?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=580752960406&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



Oct 16, 2015 at 02:20 AM
codyconway
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · FotoDiox "Tough E Mount"


Just putting this here -

Picked up at sony-e tough mount by Fotodiox (signature edition). Had slight wiggles before with the FE kit lens, and with the comlite adapter. With the e-mount in place, its a perfect and tight locking fit. It seems there may be some variation out there, but at least this one was a win.



Oct 21, 2015 at 03:12 PM
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