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Archive 2014 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

galenapass
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Just took a look at some of the Canon G7X shots on imaging resources...and quite frankly they looked horrible. I was curious to see if I could open a raw file with PhotoNinja. Well I could, but let's just say this camera is not yet supported. But, one thing I did notice is that the image circle on the wide end does not even cover the sensor!

Take a look for yourself (upper left crop).

Sep 29, 2014 at 08:48 PM

mogul
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

It must be great to be a Canon shooter...I wonder if lens correction is active in raw.

Sep 29, 2014 at 09:01 PM

johnctharp
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Looked horrible compared too...?

I'd be comparing it side-by-side with an RX100 III and the Pannies with the same sensor, and I'd be more interested in lens quality and handling.

Sep 29, 2014 at 09:27 PM

kwalsh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Cool. Of course most all fixed lens cameras, and a number of ILC mirrorless cameras, preform software distortion correction and have quite high uncorrected barrel distortion at the wide end. After distortion correction those dark parts of the frame won't even be in the final image. I'm sure someone will measure the uncorrected distortion of the lens and then we can see if it is any more than is typical for these cameras.

Sep 29, 2014 at 09:33 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

johnctharp wrote:
Looked horrible compared too...?

I'd be comparing it side-by-side with an RX100 III and the Pannies with the same sensor, and I'd be more interested in lens quality and handling.

Hey John,

I was comparing it to the RX100. However, I have not opened the RX100III raws to look specifically at the short end...and I am not sure I want to do that now.

(I own an RX100)

Regardless, is that what we are reduced to now? Image circles that don't even cover the sensor? Maybe I'm just waking up to this fact, but I don't have to like it!

Sep 29, 2014 at 11:50 PM

serhan_
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Sony kept the distortion similar from M1/2 to M3 around 12% and limited the range. From lenstip/optyczne.pl:


	http://www.optyczne.pl/upload2/119974_SRX100M3_DY_8.8mm_f4_raw.jpg

Canon g7x looks like g1x m2. M1 has 9% distortion ctrl vs M2 has 14.5% per lenstip/optyczne.pl:


	http://www.optyczne.pl/upload2/113244_CG1X2_DY_12.5mm_f4_raw.jpg

A good comparison of 2 cameras:
http://www.mobile01.com/newsdetail.php?id=15679

Translation:
translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobile01.com%2Fnewsdetail.php%3Fid%3D15679

Sep 30, 2014 at 01:15 AM

LightShow
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Shame on Canon.

Sep 30, 2014 at 06:09 AM

Mescalamba
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Sony made same with some wide-angle for E-mount. And its not alone (tho if Im correct, even with stretching it has FOV it should).

Probably same case, its cheaper to design wider lens with heavy distortion and fix it in SW, than make perfect lens with regular optical correction of flaws. SW ftw.

At least for some.. I prefer lens to be perfect. Software should be just a simple small brush to make everything look flawless with few finishing touches, not to correct and paint over heavy flaws..

Sep 30, 2014 at 06:49 AM

kwalsh
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

galenapass wrote:
Regardless, is that what we are reduced to now? Image circles that don't even cover the sensor? Maybe I'm just waking up to this fact, but I don't have to like it!

Why would you bother extending the image circle when you aren't going to use that part of the image circle

Is throwing extra light around the inside of the camera a benefit somehow?

While you are waking up to that fact wake up to the fact that cameras with tiny but high IQ and fast lenses are a dime a dozen.

How do you think that happened? Perhaps proper engineering and design in which you don't optically correct things that are easily and more effectively corrected in the digital domain? Maybe by understanding that an integrated approach to image quality in which the entire imaging system is treated and optimized as a whole rather than trying to optimize at arbitrary and inefficiently defined boundaries within subsystems?

The real trade off to worry about is size vs. IQ - not how one gets to the final IQ. In general using the advantages afforded by a system wide approach to IQ will get you a better trade off in size vs. IQ.

Sep 30, 2014 at 08:43 AM

galenapass
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

OK! I stand corrected! Looks like I need to pick myself up a G7X. When I shoot raw I sure hope they provide a visual aid, like maybe darkened shadows in the viewfinder, so I can guess what my shot will look like after I have to crop the photo afterwards in PP.

Sweet!

Sep 30, 2014 at 10:00 AM

kwalsh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

galenapass wrote:
OK! I stand corrected! Looks like I need to pick myself up a G7X. When I shoot raw I sure hope they provide a visual aid, like maybe darkened shadows in the viewfinder, so I can guess what my shot will look like after I have to crop the photo afterwards in PP.

Sweet!

Umm.. The RAW converters already perform all the corrections and crop automatically. In fact with LR/ACR and most all commercial RAW converters you can't even get access to these dark portions. Sites that show the uncorrected RAW data like IR and LensTip have to specifically go out of their way to break the tool chain by directly using DCRAW or something like it to even show this effect.

And this is nothing new, has behaved this way on all these compact cameras like the G7X since the introduction of the LX3 almost six years ago. You appear to be just a little late to realize what cameras have been doing for half a decade - precisely because the RAW tool chains are designed to handle this transparently to the user. Photo Ninja has been a little late to the game in supporting corrections properly, they as of 5 months ago at least were often still ignoring the manufacturer provided corrections in the RAW files but they do offer DIY profiling that can be applied on import once you've made the profiles. That certainly is a tool chain thing to worry about if you prefer Photo Ninja and might be annoying enough to avoid a particular camera or lens.

Sep 30, 2014 at 10:17 AM

galenapass
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Seriously, I do agree with what you are saying. But, all things being equal, I'd rather stick with cameras that take advantage of the sensor to it's fullest potential.

Sep 30, 2014 at 10:24 AM

kwalsh
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

galenapass wrote:
Seriously, I do agree with what you are saying. But, all things being equal, I'd rather stick with cameras that take advantage of the sensor to it's fullest potential.

I can completely understand that - and sorry to harp on the topic! I'm just not sure you'll end up with all things equal - you'll probably take a size hit or IQ hit somewhere else.

It really seems the excessive barrel distortion approach is taken primarily with zooms. For example the GR and the Nikon A both have wide angle lenses with almost no optical distortion at all. I certainly don't understand enough about optics to figure out *why* but it seems almost every manufacturer that does smallish fixed lens zoom cameras has decided the best solution is a lot of barrel distortion at the wide end corrected in software. I'm guessing if multiple design teams are coming up with the same answer there is some good reason for it.

Sep 30, 2014 at 10:47 AM

drofnad
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Maybe this is a place to whyyyyne :: Why "G7X" (the ID)?! We have already the GX7, and more than enuff "X"things to go 'round twice. (Plenty of "G"s, too.)

Sep 30, 2014 at 12:51 PM

deadwolfbones
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/canon-powershot-g7-x-digital-camera-review

Sep 30, 2014 at 09:27 PM

Gunzorro
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

galenapass wrote:
Hey John,

I was comparing it to the RX100. However, I have not opened the RX100III raws to look specifically at the short end...and I am not sure I want to do that now.

(I own an RX100)

Regardless, is that what we are reduced to now? Image circles that don't even cover the sensor? Maybe I'm just waking up to this fact, but I don't have to like it!

That's not the image circle being mechanically vignetted, it's an obstruction outside the camera (misplaced hand or other object possibly shading the lens from a light source, or maybe an attachment/ring). I've never seen a Canon fixed lens product that had such vignetting -- so I know it must be another source than the design.

Sep 30, 2014 at 11:58 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Nope, it was on all 4 corners.

G7X at the wide end

Edited on Oct 01, 2014 at 02:16 AM · View previous versions

Oct 01, 2014 at 02:11 AM

galenapass
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

drofnad wrote:
Maybe this is a place to whyyyyne :: Why "G7X" (the ID)?! We have already the GX7, and more than enuff "X"things to go 'round twice. (Plenty of "G"s, too.)

Uhh....I guess.

Oct 01, 2014 at 02:12 AM

P.F.
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

More than the black corners, I think the issue here is the huge barrel distortion. As a correction is necessary, the corners have no influence on the final image so they didn't bother...

The Sony also has barrel distortion but much less.

Oct 01, 2014 at 02:37 AM

carstenw
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New Canon G7x ...yikes!

Anybody will confirm that I am really not a Canon fan, but I think this is way too early to condemn this camera. The reviewed.com review claims good results, and the results at imaging-resource look decent as well. If the corners are not needed due to in-camera distortion correction, then it doesn't matter that they are dark.

In the end, the camera should be judged by the final image quality it gives, not some intermediate stage. The same approach is used by the excellent Hasselblad H 28mm lens, by the way.

Oct 01, 2014 at 03:37 AM

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