Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

3 … 5 6 end

Archive 2014 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

millsart
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Two23 wrote:
Your shots are great! I don't see a new camera giving you much more advantage though. The one thing that could well are shift lenses though. If it were me, I'd go for a Canon body so I could use their excellent 17mm tilt/shift. I'm still shooting 4x5 for landscape work because of the lens movements. I'm quite surprised that no one here has mentioned t/s lenses.

Part of the problem of looking at changing cameras is that on message boards we mostly only look at numbers. The reality is we must "mesh" well with the camera system for it...Show more →

The Canon TSE's actually adapt really well to the A7r with adapter. Fred himself has some excellent images posted with that combo

Aug 16, 2014 at 11:44 PM

pdmphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Considering the excellent work you are doing with you current equipment, I don't see a good reason for a change right now. The A7r might just be an untamely brat that can take a while to get used to hanging with. I've had mine for over a month and just getting OK with it. If you are very comfortable with what you are using now, it may cause some interference for you to move to something like the A7r. Even when you master the camera there is still the limited native lens selection. There is nothing wider than 24, and the 24-70 zoom isn't anything special. While the Canon T/S could open up new possibilities for you, they could also end up being a hindrance to your work considering your preference for zooms, and seamless operation with the camera.

Aug 17, 2014 at 12:40 AM

freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

millsart wrote:
For making 13x19"'s though ?

Sure. The files would make beautiful 13x19"s.

None of the cameras in this discussion aren't overkill for that purpose. I printed a 17x22 for a friend, a cityscape he shot with his J1 in the golden hour, and I was floored with how well the file took to resizing. It makes APS-C sensors from the 20D era look like a joke. My point is that if you have the time to really study a place and choose exactly the right light and exactly the right sky and exactly the right time of year, then why not capture it in as high a resolution as possible? Cost and bulk are valid reasons, of course, but if you can work with them, then why not do it? Your photos may have a life beyond that 13x19.

Aug 17, 2014 at 01:23 AM

bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

What you are suggesting would make a lot of sense … if you are willing to invest in another format and can afford the higher depreciation cost, etc. I don't think the OP is willing to give up his lightweight m43 gear for his travels. Who doesn't want want more resolution and cleaner files? But it's all a matter of trade-off. If you travel a lot, size and weight matters more (to me anyway) than slightly better IQ. And I personally cannot afford to own 2 different systems. Wish I could though.

freaklikeme wrote:
Sure. The files would make beautiful 13x19"s.

Aug 17, 2014 at 01:51 AM

justruss
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

I think that your images (because of what you bring to the table: technique, understanding of light, PP) are so beautiful-- that you really could take advantage of the higher resolution/DR/latitude offered by larger formats and better sensor. At that level, for landscape-dedicated work... every little bit counts, even for 13 x 19 inch prints.

That said, your current system produces fantastic results you're happy with. So if you do dabble, don't sell your current system until you determine that the dabbling system works better for your needs.

Honestly, I'd wait until after Photokina, since it's coming so soon, and there could be some interesting things. Some possibilities:

- Sony A7r (or A9...) w/ Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70II -- leaves open the option to replace with Sony lenses when available.
- Nikon D810 w/ native lenses.
- MFDB, but then you're likely going to use primes, or shorter-range zooms, and costs go up a lot
- Sigma DPM (again, primes, but you could pick one or two up for $400 as an add-on to see if you like it)
- *Wild card: Canon releases something really interesting in a month or two...

Aug 17, 2014 at 03:46 AM

mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

I agree with the majority of posts suggesting you stay with m43 for 13x19 prints. Perhaps add the new UWA zoom Olympus are reported to be bringing out if it's noticeably better than the 7-14 Panny.

One problem with going to a large format is the DOF loss for landscapes. For example I'm not sure you'd get the floors in full focus on the 2 shots of the salt flats and racetracks without a tilt lens. The 24mm TS Nikon is iffy, most report average quality and the Sam/Rokinon is not as good as some of their primes (and falls short of the Canon 24mm TSE II). As said above the A7r with the 17 and 24mm TSE lenses is a good option if you can't help yourself

Mike

Aug 17, 2014 at 05:17 AM

Phillip Reeve
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

If you decide that the investment makes sense for you I would look into buying a A7r, Canon 16-35/4 IS, Zeiss 35-70/3.4, Canon 70-200/4 IS which should make an awesome set and you would have much better LV than with the d800 and some great lenses.

Aug 17, 2014 at 05:23 AM

DaveOls
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Your first picture of Bryce? is really good. If you really want to step up to a larger format, look at some of the older 6x6 cameras that use film. Fuji has some like the 6x7 and 6x9 that are supposedly superb. I don't think that they weigh that much or are unbearably large.

Aug 17, 2014 at 06:24 AM

jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Phillip Reeve wrote:
If you decide that the investment makes sense for you I would look into buying a A7r, Canon 16-35/4 IS, Zeiss 35-70/3.4, Canon 70-200/4 IS which should make an awesome set and you would have much better LV than with the d800 and some great lenses.

+1, same lenses even if you get "only" a 6D.

Aug 17, 2014 at 07:25 AM

bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

I am pretty optimistic that the new Olympus 7-14/2.8 will be superior to the Panasonic 7-14/4 which is already a very good lens except for CA and flare problems, and you can do focus stacking for extending DOF. That, and the 12-40/2.8 lens …. and maybe the E-M1 (for now) would be an upgrade to your present set of m43 gear.

mcbroomf wrote:
I agree with the majority of posts suggesting you stay with m43 for 13x19 prints. Perhaps add the new UWA zoom Olympus are reported to be bringing out if it's noticeably better than the 7-14 Panny.

One problem with going to a large format is the DOF loss for landscapes. For example I'm not sure you'd get the floors in full focus on the 2 shots of the salt flats and racetracks without a tilt lens. The 24mm TS Nikon is iffy, most report average quality and the Sam/Rokinon is not as good as some of their primes (and falls short...Show more →

Aug 17, 2014 at 07:33 AM

bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

I was briefly toying with the idea of going to a Sony A7r … but the lack of good/fast native AF lenses was a turn off - not to mention the quirks. To get very good and reasonably small lenses you will have to do a ton of research to figure out which Sony, Olympus, Leica, Zeiss, Canon, Sigma lenses would work best … and then you have to deal with the different adaptors and quirks. Assuming you have the time and the patience for this … what is all this going to cost you?

You may be better off just upgrading your m43 system (for now) and wait for a MF body from Canon or Nikon.

Aug 17, 2014 at 07:48 AM

riotshield
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

I might suggest keeping your m43 gear and adding a second camera as a backup. I think the Ricoh GR is a great 2nd landscape option - high resolution (higher than any m43 or other APS-C setup I've used actually), compact/light, and has a 21mm wide adapter option.

I wouldn't rule out Canon FF also. It's true their sensors have less dynamic range at base ISO than the FF Sony Exmors (but still comparable to your m43 gear), but for HDR this shouldn't be an issue. Their new 16-35mm f/4L IS lens would be a nice option.

Aug 17, 2014 at 08:02 AM

Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Sony A99
Canon 1Ds MK3 (might run into bit of DR issues)
D810 (looks promising so far, except Nikon F isnt best for alt lens)

Pentax 645D or Z..
Almost any good old MFDB with enough research..

My current idea is inclined towards A99. ISO 50, very good DR, quite clean image, very good colors, full time EVF/LCD. And from my experience SSS is pretty nice thing. Converting lens or getting even AF ones isnt problem.

Yea I dont mind weight when that ratio is "IQ = weight". I mind weight only when its heavy clumsy camera with no good output.

Yes, your pics are incredible, especially given what you shoot. I can only imagine what you would be capable with some decent MFDB.

Aug 17, 2014 at 08:27 AM

jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

For landscapes, I replaced my 1DsIII with a 6D.

Aug 17, 2014 at 09:07 AM

Peire
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Your absolutely outstanding lansdscapes deserve at least 4x5" large format and Velvia 50 slides

.Being realistc though,I think that the only digital system with very good quality FF sensors (24-36MP) AND excellent wa+tele zooms is Nikon.

Aug 17, 2014 at 09:08 AM

Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Your photos are fantastic and I am sure make good prints up to 13 X 19. I think you have to decide if you are interested in any of the things you could gain by getting another system.

Do you want more resolution? It seems you don't, but what if during your year "off" you get a shot that is so fantastic you want to print it larger? Would you regret not having more resolution? Only you know for sure.

Do you want to learn to use grad filters instead of or in addition to HDR? Your HDR shots are very nice, but grad filters can provide a different look for the same scene. Is this something you are interested in? If it is, then the 7-14 won't be all that useful as it isn't set up well for filters. I guess you could get a special rig for it as another way to go.

Do you want to use tilt/shift? Tilt/shift also provides some options and some different looks that cannot be obtained in other ways. I think it does take a while to learn how to use tilt/shift, but it would add another tool to your image making kit.

There are other possible kits worth considering if you are interested in these things (Phillip's suggested kit is a good example), but if you aren't interested in any of these things then it certainly makes sense staying with m4/3rds.

Aug 17, 2014 at 09:24 AM

CalW
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Ken, when I started investigating m43, you influenced my decision quite a bit, and I thank you for that. I think that none of us can tell another what they should do, but as our purposes in photography appear to be much the same, perhaps it is meaningful to pass on what I intend to do. For me, the answer to your question, "For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?" is, "At this time, nothing." Although I have a RX100 for when I want to really "pack small" and I am currently having a fun full-frame fling with an RX1, in the long term I intend to stay with m43 as my system camera. The E-M5 is still perfectly good for my purposes, but when it breaks I would likely get an E-M1. The Oly 12-40 f/2.8 Pro has impressed me so much that when they become available I am interested in replacing the Oly 9-18 with a 7-14 f/2.8 Pro and replacing the Pany 35-100 with a 40-150 f/2.8 Pro. Although I would also keep my primes for special purposes, these three zoom lenses should give near-prime IQ from 14mm to 300mm field of view, and still be a small enough kit to travel with.

Aug 17, 2014 at 10:02 AM

uhoh7
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Obviously you are ready for an outstanding landscape kit.

I shoot alot of landscapes too, and have tried numerous rigs.

I think at this moment nothing really beats the M9 and a few Leica, Zeiss or CV lenses. Certainly the A7 does not--I have one.

Like any system there are quirks and downsides, but it can be carried, and the lenset is unbeatable.

What the digital M can't do, M43 does fine, e.g. long shots and closeups.

L1018371 by unoh7,
M9+28cron

A good M9 runs around 3200. Lens prices vary, but if needed, you can keep it under a grand for every FL.

I see the incredible 28 cron for 2200 fairly often these days, 1k less than I paid

DSC04183 by unoh7, on Flickr

Aug 17, 2014 at 10:08 AM

akclimber
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Love your sample photos. As others have pointed out, you're certainly an accomplished enough photog to be able to make do with your current equipment but I'm an admitted Sony sensor fanboy and think you'd really enjoy the extra dynamic range and even resolution a D800e or D810 would bring to the table. And for whatever reason, probably the high DR, for me the files from the D800 series make beautiful B&W conversions - nicer than my other cams. And really, without the battery grip the D800s aren't too big in the scheme of things. If you decide to go the D800 route and can afford it, I'd highly recommend a D810 for its native 64 ISO and much better live view, among other things. Overall, the D810 is more refined than the D800 - I find it a pretty large upgrade. I'm a fairly recent Nikon convert (D800e and D810, coming from Canon 5D2 and 5D3) so don't have too many lenses on which I can comment. Zoom-wise, as has been mentioned, the 14-24 rocks but it is a PITA to filter, the 16-35 is pretty nice with some distortion and corner quality issues at extremes but the VR is useful for handheld stuff and it takes filters. I really enjoy my copy of the 24-120. And heck, Sigma is rumored to be introducing an Art(?) 14-24 f/4 with an 82mm filter size that may be worth looking into if it happens. For travel and hiking I also own a Sony A6000 with the 10-18 and 16-70 lenses - a combo which I'm really enjoying (but it doesn't match the D810 for shear IQ). All that said, I'd wait for Photokina to see what the photo gear gods offer up before making any final decisions.

Good luck with your gear decision and your landscape photo/writing adventure!

Aug 17, 2014 at 10:34 AM

bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · For landscape, what is worth stepping up to from m43?

Lightroom 5 has an amazing grad filter tool and it's so much easier to control this in post. ND filters are a different matter altogether.

Steve Spencer wrote:
Do you want to learn to use grad filters instead of or in addition to HDR? Your HDR shots are very nice, but grad filters can provide a different look for the same scene. Is this something you are interested in? If it is, then the 7-14 won't be all that useful as it isn't set up well for filters. I guess you could get a special rig for it as another way to go.

Aug 17, 2014 at 10:46 AM

1 2 3 … 5 6 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 5 6 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.