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Archive 2014 · Two from Zion

Tront
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Two from Zion

These two shots made in the morning. Regretted that he had not had time to dawn and the light was not so soft.

Thank you for looking

Jul 01, 2014 at 01:03 PM

Timmeh
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Two from Zion

Hi Dmitry,

Zion is usually best in living color but the color isn't working for me here. The murky water looks unappealing (though you tried your best in #1). The blown out sky in #2 really detracts from the image, and the lack of any rich blacks hurts it as well. For composition I think #1 is the winner.

Tim

Jul 01, 2014 at 08:13 PM

Tront
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Two from Zion

Tim, thanks for comment and I agree with you that the colors are not the best ..

Jul 02, 2014 at 03:34 PM

ebiggs
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Two from Zion

Does it really matter if that portrays what it looks like? Or did you want an artificial photo?

Jul 02, 2014 at 04:43 PM

Tront
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
Does it really matter if that portrays what it looks like? Or did you want an artificial photo?

Thank you for your comment. I care about the look of my work and for me
important colors. Sorry, but where i can see your version natural color? Thank you!

Jul 02, 2014 at 05:15 PM

Timmeh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
Does it really matter if that portrays what it looks like? Or did you want an artificial photo?

Hi Ernest,

I'm not sure if you're responding to me, but it matters if the photo isn't compelling. I wasn't saying push all the sliders to 100 because that would be a garish mess. Light and conditions matter in landscape photography, and I tried to offer something helpful rather than let the thread die with zero input.

Tim

Jul 02, 2014 at 05:22 PM

JimFox
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Two from Zion

Timmeh wrote:
Hi Dmitry,

Zion is usually best in living color but the color isn't working for me here. The murky water looks unappealing (though you tried your best in #1). The blown out sky in #2 really detracts from the image, and the lack of any rich blacks hurts it as well. For composition I think #1 is the winner.

Tim

Hey Tront,

I agree with Tim's suggestions and comments.

Jim

Jul 02, 2014 at 06:42 PM

pink
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Two from Zion

I feel that number 1 would still work if you just took a hint of exposure out of the water, its almost as though you should have used a ND grad on the bottom half for a change!

Jul 03, 2014 at 07:24 AM

ebiggs
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Two from Zion

I guess I am more of a faithfull photographer as I like my photos to represent how the scene actually is and looks.
You can always PS later if that's your cup of tea.

Jul 03, 2014 at 09:17 AM

ckcarr
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
I guess I am more of a faithfull photographer as I like my photos to represent how the scene actually is and looks.
You can always PS later if that's your cup of tea.

Interesting, however it has nothing to do with the comments or suggestions that I am reading. And Tim didn't say that. He was simply offering a comment based on his experience. And applying CPR to the thread.

No one is saying falsify the photo with color manipulation, or replacement of sky and water color with Photoshop. They are saying the photograph is just not compelling, it does not impact the viewer, which is why the thread was heading to the bottom. This scene, over the course of 365 days will present itself in a myriad of conditions. Some bland, some average, some exciting, and a rare few that are the sweet spot - where everything comes together. The magic light, the color in the water, the reflected light on the rocks. None of that requires Photoshop manipulation, with the exception of bringing a raw file back to life from it's digital negative state. It's part of real landscape photography - catching that one fleeting moment in time. And everyone does it differently.

The topic reminds me of my drive back through Indian Creek a few days ago, and I'm still kicking myself. Arguably one of the most beautiful places around. The sun was setting, the cliffs and red rock everywhere were literally on fire, gorgeous and varying shades of reds, brilliant sky, and a moon hanging overhead. There were horses running and rolling in the pasture, and jackrabbits everywhere. And except for the horses snorting, it was dead quiet. However, no one else was there to see it. Now, a skilled writer could capture that feeling and express it and bring to life for the reader. A photographer, their job is to bring that to life for the viewer. That is what skilled landscape photographers do, bring that beauty back to the viewer. To show them what they saw and what it can be under the best of conditions.

That is why you will read of serious landscape photographers going back to the same location over and over. They are on a quest, for that one magical fleeting moment.

A good landscape photograph will stand alone, but will benefit from nice post processing. However a bad landscape photograph - no amount of processing will improve it.

Again, nothing about Photoshop manipulation.

Compelling matters however, with any photographic endeavor. Landscape, wildlife, people, cityscape... Otherwise, it's nothing.

Jul 03, 2014 at 10:33 AM

ebiggs
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Two from Zion

You can do whatever you want to "enhance" your photos. But I am going for faithful reproduction to show just what and how the scene looked. If it looked "bland" then it should look bland.
That is a big reason I spent the big bucks on a 1D Mk IV and "L" lenses. Not so I could do PS on them.
You are free to do as you like as I am. But like I said to each his own.

Jul 03, 2014 at 05:01 PM

JimFox
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
You can do whatever you want to "enhance" your photos. But I am going for faithful reproduction to show just what and how the scene looked. If it looked "bland" then it should look bland.
That is a big reason I spent the big bucks on a 1D Mk IV and "L" lenses. Not so I could do PS on them.
You are free to do as you like as I am. But like I said to each his own.

No need to have an attitude, if your goal is boring and plain photographs, have at it. As Craig and others were trying to share with you, shots can be realistic and still have been processed in Photoshop. It sounds like you have some kind of Photoshop Phobia?

As to both shots here, they both do have issues. You do realize that your camera has a little computer in it that is making modifications to the scene that is being shot? Even when we shot with film, each type of film had it's own characteristics on how it captured a scene.

For you to put people down who use Photoshop to process their photos, is just plain rude...

Jim

Jul 03, 2014 at 05:29 PM

Scott Kroeker
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Two from Zion

In situations like this where light and time of day is not ideal a black and white conversion might save the day. I do like #1 for all the elements in it and a BW conversion could do it justice. If you're using photoshop make a new 'Black & White' adjustment layer and play with the sliders to your taste.

ebiggs wrote:
You can do whatever you want to "enhance" your photos. But I am going for faithful reproduction to show just what and how the scene looked. If it looked "bland" then it should look bland.
That is a big reason I spent the big bucks on a 1D Mk IV and "L" lenses. Not so I could do PS on them.

This statement speaks VOLUMES of your knowledge of photography and gear.

JimFox wrote:
For you to put people down who use Photoshop to process their photos, is just plain rude...

Jim

Agreed!

Jul 03, 2014 at 05:56 PM

ebiggs
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Two from Zion

Talk about arrogance. Is it your perception that a difference of opinion is a put down?
I didn't know there was so narrow minder people here but maybe so. Just because I don't care for the enhanced photos over the faithful , “speaks VOLUMES of your knowledge of photography and gear.” My lord how perceptive you are.

And Mr Fox, “It sounds like you have some kind of Photoshop Phobia?” If it matters, I started with PS when it had version numbers. No CS something.

There is no attitude or put down from me. I don't see how you arrived at that but, whatever.
I will refrain from making any more comments on photos in the future since different opinions are not welcomed.

Agreed?

Jul 04, 2014 at 07:58 AM

Iliang
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
You can do whatever you want to "enhance" your photos. But I am going for faithful reproduction to show just what and how the scene looked. If it looked "bland" then it should look bland.
That is a big reason I spent the big bucks on a 1D Mk IV and "L" lenses. Not so I could do PS on them.
You are free to do as you like as I am. But like I said to each his own.

I'm just an enthusiast and I too tend to process my images to show what I feel accurately represented the scene. If the scene was bland then I will process it that way.

However, I probably wouldn't share it as I dislike bland images, no matter how good the composition. If possible, I would do as ckcarr described, and go back and try again for better light. Then I'd share that one.

Jul 05, 2014 at 10:18 PM

Iliang
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Two from Zion

For number 1: I think this is the stronger image. I like how the long exposure smoothed the water, yet there's still waviness. I like how the soft water contrasts with the hard rock. I like that there are basically two elements (rock and water) with very little else that distracts. I think it would have greatly benefited from warmer light

For number 2: I think better light would have helped, but I feel that there are too many elements that are competing for attention rather than working harmoniously together. The featureless foreground water seems to just take up space without contributing something to the image. This one doesn't feel as interesting as the first to me.

Jul 05, 2014 at 10:32 PM

Tront
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Two from Zion

Thank you all for your comments and it is very valuable for me. I will definitely return to this place for the best shots.

Dmitry

Jul 07, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Justin Grimm
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Two from Zion

ebiggs wrote:
Talk about arrogance. Is it your perception that a difference of opinion is a put down?
I didn't know there was so narrow minder people here but maybe so. Just because I don't care for the enhanced photos over the faithful , “speaks VOLUMES of your knowledge of photography and gear.” My lord how perceptive you are.

And Mr Fox, “It sounds like you have some kind of Photoshop Phobia?” If it matters, I started with PS when it had version numbers. No CS something.

There is no attitude or put down from me. I don't see how you arrived at that...Show more →

Wow. I’m almost speechless after reading this thread. Mostly because of how awesome ckcarr's reply was to your elitist comments though. He put it perfectly.

This has nothing to do with processing and reality. The reality is, that the conditions here suck for producing interesting photographs. It has nothing to do with Tront's skills as a photographer, although maybe his choice to post these images. I do think the composition in #1 is quite nice though, and with the best conditions processing would take minimal work. It is just the luck of the draw that he got welcomed to Zion with a river of chocolate milk and bland skies.

Jul 07, 2014 at 11:05 AM

ebiggs
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Two from Zion

Justin Grimm wrote:
Mostly because of how awesome ckcarr's reply was to your elitist comments though. He put it perfectly.

WOW is right! From having an attitude, Photoshop phobia and now being elitist all in the space of a couple posts.
You can bet I have learned my lesson and will not show my attitude or elitistisum any further on Fred Miranda.

I was mistaken to think anybodies opinion was welcome and could take part. Oh well, live and learn.

Jul 07, 2014 at 03:06 PM

Tront
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Two from Zion

Thank you for your comments.

Jul 08, 2014 at 10:10 PM

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