Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Landscape Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell
  

Archive 2014 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*
  
 
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Hi all, I have a few (total noob) questions for you. But first some background so you know what you're dealing with. I was a fairly active FM member for a few years but I tailed off the last five or so years.

When I picked up a camera for the first time as a high school sophomore (about 10 years ago) I stayed in the sort of artistic/landscape/nature side of things but being so new to photography, my skills and results were quite limited. I quickly got recruited to join the high school newspaper staff and therefore, began honing my photography craft to meet the needs of the journalism world and more or less abandoned the "art" photography world (but I continued to shoot with a very artistic eye in the journalism side of things).

So for about 90% of my shooting life, my background is in photojournalism with sports photography being my specialty. I had pretty good success, got published all over the country, won some awards, yada yada yada. After I left college, I sold all my pro-series, heavy, journalism-centric bodies and lenses and only kept a few odds and ends. About 6 months ago I picked up a 5D and a 24-105L in hopes of rekindling my artistic / landscape eye. I am now back in Kansas after two years in Denver getting a second Master's degree (Landscape Architecture) and I am really hoping to find the time to shoot more and more for fun.

About a month ago I took a trip on a whim to Yellowstone and the Tetons and just absolutely fell back in love with landscape photography. But I am struggling to really get back into it and get my landscape eye back. Right now I just feel like I'm constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time. I really felt that at Yellowstone and the Tetons. I guess my intuition just seems "off" right now when it comes to landscape photography. When I was in the journalism world my intuition would kick in and I would almost always get that front page, 5 column spread and beat out everyone else. Right now, I feel like a puppy trying to swim up stream. Just part of the learning process?

Here's some photos from the Yellowstone and Tetons trip: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203166583144157.1073741828.1194930026&type=1&l=078a915b81

I picked up some cheap GND and ND filters, a cheap tripod, shutter release, etc. on Amazon after the Yellowstone and Tetons trip and have had a polarizer for a while but I am just now starting to use them and understand their strengths and weaknesses in landscape photography. I only used the polarizer at the Tetons for a day or so. They clearly make a big difference, but I am definitely in the "learning" phase with the technical side of things.

Here are a few photos from a weekend at RMNP my last weekend living in Denver before moving back to Kansas for school: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203272993204342.1073741829.1194930026&type=1&l=08dd520db0


So I guess my most pressing questions are:

How do you approach landscape photography as a craft? (How do you plan a shoot? How far in advance? Ever just pick up a camera at 5:00 pm and start driving?

What do you shoot during the day when the light is less than stellar? Obviously the morning and night are the money times, but is it ever worth shooting middle of the day (let's say the clouds aren't great or it's a clear day).

How often do you go out and come away with nothing worth showing? Back when I was in journalism you just always found something. Always looking, always creating. I feel like right now with my landscape stuff if the light isn't right, I am inclined to pack up and go home early. Right or wrong?

Any other tips or advice? I am a seasoned photographer, yet feel totally over my head right now as I try to perfect a new area of photography.

Edited on Jun 07, 2014 at 04:25 PM · View previous versions
Jun 07, 2014 at 10:09 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


How exciting that you are getting into this art! May I make one suggestion? Your questions are important ones, and lots of folks getting started have similar questions. I think you might have a bit more luck with responses if you perhaps think of one or two critical first questions to ask rather than asking a few dozen in one post. I thought of trying to respond specifically, but I realized I would likely have to write and post the whole book here!* ;-)

Dan

*I captured your list and think that it might actually lead to some more posts in a series at my blog that provides somewhat more detailed answers to questions that I often see in photography forums. :-)
Jun 07, 2014 at 10:37 AM
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Hi Dan, thanks for your response. I realize there were a lot of questions, but most of them were really just "sub" questions. I bolded the main questions I am hoping to have answered. The others were intended to be launching points for responses.

Thanks,
Jonathan
Jun 07, 2014 at 10:43 AM
dswiger
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Jonathan Knight wrote:
So I guess my most pressing questions are:

How do you approach landscape photography as a craft? (How do you plan a shoot? How far in advance? Ever just pick up a camera at 5:00 pm and start driving?

What do you shoot during the day when the light is less than stellar? Obviously the morning and night are the money times, but is it ever worth shooting middle of the day (let's say the clouds aren't great or it's a clear day).

How often do you go out and come away with nothing worth showing? ...Show more →

I will start with last question first.
I would try to separate from your professional experience of always having to deliver.
Having done a few PJ gigs I know the pressure to deliver.
I would just start out locally, scouting out locations, lighting, etc.
Then make simple assignments for yourself to visit these locations.
Try to have a vision of what you want to capture.
A favorite of mine is back/side lit oak trees so I find a likely place and visit at the hours I expect the light. If it doesn't work, I move on to the next "vision-assignment"
I always have a list in my mind of places/scenes I would like to visit.

There are times I don't take one "snap" and I'm OK with that (finally)

Good Light...question.
As I mentioned, side/back light is something you can find at other than the golden hours.
I also might do a reflection shot.
Another is B&W compositions. Look at a lot of Ansel Adams work as he shot a lot of dramatic images in bright daylight.

Practice of craft...
I try to have a plan & a vision, but I also allow for the spontaneous.
For the serendipitous I just try to be prepared.
Recently I got invited to join some high country hiking in Yosemite.
I am already thinking about the opportunites, what gear to bring,
But at the same time, i want enjoy the experience too
That helps set expectations.

I would "enjoy" the scenes you are trying to capture before you pressure yourself to deliver on them.

Dan
Jun 07, 2014 at 11:34 AM
Dustin Gent
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


There are simply too many variables to answer the time of day question. It all depends obviously on where you are and what you are shooting.

During rainy, overcast days, you could shoot all day in the Gorge (polarizer will help). If it is sunny, waterfalls won't be good much after 8:30am. Slot canyons are good mid-day.. you can see where I am going. If you like B&W stuff, you could go all day as well.

As far as planning, at the mercy of nature and weather. On my days off, I will look at the weather and see what spots it will work for, and roll the dice.

I usually come back with something to show for my efforts, more luck than anything. With waterfalls, pretty much 1000% of the time I will have something. Now with stuff at the coast or in the cascades, I am batting maybe 32% total. I have hiked into the backcountry of Mt. Rainier and we got super lucky with light. Otherwise it would have been a let down, as far as composition coming together. I hear they have apps on phones that tell you where the sun is setting, moon rise, etc etc and even make you coffee

Lastly I feel if you have a passion for something, a true passion, you will get better. ALWAYS have fun. I cannot tell you how many times I have been out and people look so serious when shooting. It isn't brain surgery. No one will die if you don't nail comp on the first try. Once the fun factor is gone, it is time to move on, imo


Jun 07, 2014 at 11:48 AM
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Great comments so far. I appreciate your efforts in responding and perspectives.

Dustin - My passion and love for photography will always be there and I enjoy every day I go out. Part of the reason why I am getting back into landscapes is that I can combine my passion for the outdoors (camping, hiking, climbing, backpacking) with another of my hobbies: photography. During my journalism years, those were mostly separate. My gear was heavy and bulky and it never seemed worth bringing, particularly as phone cameras got better. Now that my gear and my interests have changed (away from PJ), I am back into it.

I went out last night, got nothing, and still enjoyed my 30 minute walk in the tallgrass prairies of north central Kansas that I am lucky to be surrounded by.
Jun 07, 2014 at 12:09 PM
JimFox
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Hey Jonathon,

Thankfully GDan decided not to try and answer all of your questions, because Fred would be having to purchase new servers after they got overloaded by GDan's response! Dan is usually never short on words.

But to Dan's point, you really raised too many issues to answer in a thread. The Landscape forum isn't a Question and Answer forum, it is for Presenting our photographs. I am sure it was helpful for you to put into words your many thoughts, and you did get some nice general replies by Dan and Dustin.

What you simply need to do is read our guidelines at the top of this thread, post a few of your photo's in a thread and people can make comments and suggestions to help you improve. Most people won't go to the link you posted, I know I won't. But if you do post a few (no more than 5) photos in a thread, I will look and comment. I would suggest to actually keep your photos to only 2 or 3 photos, so that if people make suggestions and you then edit a shot and want to repost it, you won't be going over the 5 photo max limit per thread.

It's obviously you love photography and the outdoors, so just go out and do it. Sometimes, some people analyze something to death, and don't actually just get out and enjoy the craft and improve in it.

Jim
Jun 07, 2014 at 12:46 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Jonathan Knight wrote:
I went out last night, got nothing, and still enjoyed my 30 minute walk in the tallgrass prairies of north central Kansas that I am lucky to be surrounded by.


From my perspective, that comment is key. I think that, at least for some kinds of photography, the first passion should be for the full experience of the subject. In other words, you would care about that whether you photographed it or not. At that point, in my view, you probably have something to say about that subject through your photographs. Otherwise one runs the risk of just making pretty pictures of things.

Believe it or not, in the grand scheme it is a good thing to sometimes go out and be there and not get any photographs, and to not regard this as a failure but rather as part of the larger process that leads to photographs.

Dan
Jun 07, 2014 at 02:51 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


JimFox wrote:
Hey Jonathon,

Thankfully GDan decided not to try and answer all of your questions, because Fred would be having to purchase new servers after they got overloaded by GDan's response! Dan is usually never short on words.

Usually? Only usually? I guess I'll have to try harder? ;-)

I actually think that pretty much each of those questions could be its own blog post.

Dan
Jun 07, 2014 at 02:52 PM
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Hi all, thanks. I will upload some recent work in a bit.
Jun 07, 2014 at 03:38 PM
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


A little bit of recent work. Nothing spectacular but noticing anything or seeing anything you would do differently?

1.

http://66.147.244.176/~jknightp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/05.18.14.RockyMountainNP.013_700px.jpg

2.

http://66.147.244.176/~jknightp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/05.18.14.RockyMountainNP.015_700px.jpg

3.

http://66.147.244.176/~jknightp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/KonzaPrairie1_700px.jpg

4.

http://66.147.244.176/~jknightp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/KonzaPrairie2_700px.jpg

5.

http://66.147.244.176/~jknightp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Pillsbury_700px.jpg
Jun 07, 2014 at 04:19 PM
GroovyGeek
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Jonathan Knight wrote:
Here's some photos from the Yellowstone and Tetons trip: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203166583144157.1073741828.1194930026&type=1&l=078a915b81

Most of these are in flat light, with somewhat flat processing, with muddled transitions. There are two books that I have found very useful on the topic of composition: David Ward's "Into the light" and Henry Poore's "Pictorial composition in art". Neither one deals with boring prescriptive technicalities (leading lines, golden hour, rule of thirds, etc), both have interesting concepts that I have found useful to try to interpret in my own photography. Lately I have also become a more active user of dodge/burn to give images some depth and dimensionality, even if the light was somewhat off. I still stay away from wholesale modifications and don't have the love affair with the vibrance button that some people seem to have.

Jonathan Knight wrote:
How do you approach landscape photography as a craft? (How do you plan a shoot? How far in advance? Ever just pick up a camera at 5:00 pm and start driving?

I have done both - planned things 1-2 months in advance and pick up the camera at 5pm. I have gotten good images with both. Obviously the 5pm thing is a local affair, and once you know your surroundings you can anticipate what can happen, so the 5pm "spur of the moment" thing is almost as carefully planned as the trip that required 2 flights and 10 hrs of driving.


Jonathan Knight wrote:
What do you shoot during the day when the light is less than stellar? Obviously the morning and night are the money times, but is it ever worth shooting middle of the day (let's say the clouds aren't great or it's a clear day).

One possibility here is textures, particularly in B&W. In mid day I usually keep the long tele on and look for more intimate compositions that do not involve the sky.

Jonathan Knight wrote:
How often do you go out and come away with nothing worth showing? Back when I was in journalism you just always found something. Always looking, always creating. I feel like right now with my landscape stuff if the light isn't right, I am inclined to pack up and go home early. Right or wrong?

All the time. If I come back with one image worth keeping I feel like I have had a good outing. If there are two, then it was a great outing. My personal style is more contemplative than typical of the dslr era, I would rarely shoot more than 50 frames in a session, and often less than 20. Then I prune mercilessly.

Jonathan Knight wrote:
Any other tips or advice? I am a seasoned photographer, yet feel totally over my head right now as I try to perfect a new area of photography.
Depends on whether you do this with an eye to making it a profession, or just as a hobby. If you are studying Landscape Architecture then you must have some artistic talent. Approach landscapes as a painter. Where would you stand, what would you exclude, where should the light be coming from. Then don't hesitate to edit the images as much or as little as suits your taste.
Jun 08, 2014 at 01:03 PM
Jonathan Knight
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Just Getting Back Into It. A little help? *now with photos!*


Hi Groovy, thanks. I will check out those books.

I'm not necessarily concerned too much about composition as I do have about 10 years of experience with a camera. Your perspective is interesting, though. When I was in the journalism world I was often criticized for being too artistic and not enough of a traditional news/photojournalism shooter in terms of composition. Now it seems my photos lack an artistic vision on the opposite side of the spectrum?

But again, I'm not too concerned about the composition aspect. I am more concerned about how I can more often be in the right place at the right time. I pulled up your deviant art gallery and was blown away by the light you were able to find. I haven't been finding that at all! Hence, my questions were more towards process than result. I know the results will be there once I figure how to be in the right place at the right time. I appreciate your insights in that regard.

As per your comments about the processing, I suspect that is another problem rooted in my journalism background. My processing has always been to reproduce things as I saw them with very basic adjustments to color correction, contrast, and levels. "Show the viewer what you saw" is what I had to adhere to. And yes, it is a "had" not a choice. Photojournalism code of ethics forbids you to go beyond basic corrections. Absolutely no cloning, HDR, even stitched panoramic are a pretty gray area. It seems that is often in conflict with landscape shooters (to some degree).

Any good landscape photography processing tips? Like you, I rarely (if ever) use the dodge/burn tools. In fact, I can't remember the last time I did.

Also, as per your comment: how do I find not-flat lighting? =)

My photography has always been a hobby. It turned into a "career" to pay the bills in college. I never intended to do photography of any genre as a career. Just a hobby I am passionate about.

I appreciate your comments and perspective. They have been helpful!
Jun 08, 2014 at 02:12 PM





FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.