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Archive 2014 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

matthewm
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Hey guys,
I posted this in the Weddings Forum as well, but wanted to get some thoughts from the Portrait Shooters as well. A while ago, a close family friend reached out and asked my wife to photograph their daughter's Bridal Portraits. Unfortunately, the date she could get the dress and what not landed right in the middle of the last week of my wife's Graduate School Program. So... As you can imagine, the last thing she needed on her mind was a blushing bride.

So... I got the gig. I've shot some architecture, food and editorial and I've assisted my wife on some wedding and engagement shoots, but I've never shot a bridal or portrait session on my own. I'm terrible with people. I much prefer food and architecture because they don't move or talk back or do anything awkward that I have to deal with... Like when I did this shoot and she wanted me to shoot her shoes and her dress went up high enough that the preacher wouldn't have been amused.

Anyway... This was my first one and I'm looking for C&C on these from you portrait photogs. Can you tell that I didn't know what to say? Can you give me tips for next time? Or, if they're bad enough, can you give me tips on what to do when I tell her I need to re-shoot? Also... These files are really clean and look great at full-res. But the web res ones got a little funky. I guess it's compression or whatever so don't judge on that, please.

Here's a selection of some of my favs with a couple of fun outtakes. Be gentle... But honesty is acceptable (and encouraged). Can you tell I'm nervous?

Best,
Matthew

Her daughter REALLY wanted to be in the photos. Like... All of them. I had to get her in at least one of them. She's precious.

Edited on Apr 28, 2014 at 10:09 AM · View previous versions

Apr 28, 2014 at 10:07 AM

matthewm
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

A few more... And some outtakes.

Outtake: We live in a small town and she saw someone she knew passing by as we were setting up this shot...

Outtake: This was right after her dress went up too far and had just come down. What? I'm a gentleman... I waited to click the button. :)

One of the last shots of the day... Caught that last little bit of golden spring sun. Very little PP on this one. That 135 f/2 is magic...

Apr 28, 2014 at 10:09 AM

friscoron
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Matt, I think you did a very nice job and I'm sure the bride is very pleased with what you did. By the way, if you number your pics, it's easier for us to comment on them individually.

For c&c, one thing to look at is on almost all the shots of just her, you have her shoulders completely square to you. Open her up, give her some lines, create some curves. Look at the third pic in particular, her shoulders are hunched over. Get the brides to lean in toward you, chest first. That will get their shoulders back.

Also, it looks like she has a zit on her chest. Normally, we're berating each other for over-processing our images, particularly the faces. I could you do a little more work on her face, but definitely get rid of any zits she might have, or any other temporary blemishes.

Great job. Keep working at it and I look forward to seeing more from you.

Apr 28, 2014 at 11:33 AM

matthewm
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

friscoron wrote:
Matt, I think you did a very nice job and I'm sure the bride is very pleased with what you did. By the way, if you number your pics, it's easier for us to comment on them individually.

For c&c, one thing to look at is on almost all the shots of just her, you have her shoulders completely square to you. Open her up, give her some lines, create some curves. Look at the third pic in particular, her shoulders are hunched over. Get the brides to lean in toward you, chest first. That will get their shoulders back.

Also,...Show more →

Thank you for your feedback. I'm really grateful for your time and consideration. I'm an idiot... I was so concerned with "over editing" that I failed to really edit at all, didn't I?

I'll make the changes suggested and I'll try some different poses next time around. I suppose these are good enough to give her once I edit them a little better.

Thanks again. This is all very helpful.

Apr 28, 2014 at 11:58 AM

vraspa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

While I think you did a good overall I feel that all of your photos are flat. While using less contrast for creative value on a few may be acceptable, I don't think they all should look that way. It appears that you were more nervous than your subject. She looks like a great person to work with and you may want to ask her to pose for you again just for the experience.

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:16 PM

matthewm
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

vraspa wrote:
While I think you did a good overall I feel that all of your photos are flat. While using less contrast for creative value on a few may be acceptable, I don't think they all should look that way. It appears that you were more nervous than your subject. She looks like a great person to work with and you may want to ask her to pose for you again just for the experience.

Thanks so much. I may ask her to work with me again just to give her some more options and to give me more experience. The images don't look flat on my monitor... But I may try and look at them on another computer to see if I'm missing something.

I'll revisit the editing for sure.

Best,
Matthew

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:18 PM

vraspa
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

One other thing, what caused the horizontal banding on a couple of the shots? It's really distracting.

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:18 PM

matthewm
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

vraspa wrote:
One other thing, what caused the horizontal banding on a couple of the shots? It's really distracting.

I think I mentioned that in my original post. I don't know what it is. It isn't in the full resolution print photos, but when I uploaded them here, something happened. I don't know if there's some sort of "downres" thing that happens or not, but they don't look like that on my screen when I look at the full resolution images.

It's weird though, isn't it?

I tried uploading them to Flickr as well becuase I thought it might be the forum here or something and I got the same thing. Perhaps you might suggest optimal settings for exporting photos for web use?

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:21 PM

vraspa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

I believe it may be a brick wall. Notice that it doesn't show in the brides face.

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:32 PM

matthewm
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

vraspa wrote:
I believe it may be a brick wall. Notice that it doesn't show in the brides face.

Oh. I see what you're talking about. Hmmm... Didn't notice. I may have to look at those a little closer and maybe try to smooth that out a little. Thanks for the feedback. It's so nice to get constructive feedback on these images.

Apr 28, 2014 at 01:34 PM

Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Overall for a first shoot (coming from someone who's never shot a wedding before and is really only JUST getting into photography) I think you did fairly well.

The color and black and white with the brick wall... The color version doesn't work for me, the lines are too strong. But the black and white isn't bad.

Her sitting on the lawn with the dress around her - I would have used a larger aperture to capture the details of the dress! Brides want to remember that dress! They agonized over it for MONTHS, ordered it too small to force themselves to diet, starved themselves, and then squeezed into it! Well... at least my wife did! lol You've GOTTA capture the details

Otherwise, I agree with the previous poster to have your subject angle towards (and away) from you so as not to be square with the camera.

Finally, she looks like a LOAD of fun - try and find a way to be a little goofy/silly for a few pics - it seems like there's a TON of personality to be captured!

Again, well done and I hope my (uneducated) opinions are helpful in some way.

Apr 28, 2014 at 02:38 PM

Steady Hand
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Howdy!

Everything written below is written in a truly friendly manner, and with the sole intent to help you with a different POV and another set of eyes...and some honesty too.

I know that some people don't share my taste (in my own work) and that is OK with me. I produce what I like and find people (clients) who like my style or work.
________________________

A few Quick Comments (observations and opinions):

The following are numbered but that has nothing to do with ranking them or the image sequence.

What follows are comments about what I did not like to see. No doubt others will see the images differently and may like the very same things I do not like.

And, I don't doubt that some of these images are emulating other wedding photos you may have seen. I have seen so many poor wedding photos that copy "set poses" (e.g. Looking down at nothing pose) and fail to get anything personal.

_______

1. You have several shots where she is sitting on the lawn. The image features some Short DOF (or effect like miniature DOF effect) where there is a band of sharp focus in the middle....and while it may include the brides head/shoulders, my eye was also drawn to the monkey grass or whatever that foliage is behind her on the ground.

2. you have one or two shots (as I recall) where her shoulders are hunched forward.

3. You have a shot of her holding up a wall.

4. On one or more shots it appears she is looking at her armpit.

5. Too many "looking down shots"

6. Low Contrast can be nice. But in several of these images I would prefer to see MORE contrast.

7. General Opinion: Too much dependence on short DOF in too many photos.

_______________

I liked the photo of her with the girl.

I liked some of the photos where she is smiling.

Would have preferred to see her smiling at girl and WITH girl (not down at her).

___________________

I hope these comments help you.

Apr 28, 2014 at 03:44 PM

matthewm
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Steady Hand wrote:
Howdy!

Everything written below is written in a truly friendly manner, and with the sole intent to help you with a different POV and another set of eyes...and some honesty too.

Of course I expect we all see things differently. So, if the image you posted is exactly what you like, I encourage you to follow your own taste and please yourself. However, sometimes it is good to know what others think of our work, and it may be difficult to get beyond the easy "I like it" comments to find someone who is willing to say differently in...Show more →

These are definitely very helpful. Thank you so much! I do have some images with her smiling at the camera with her daughter. And I have some of them smiling at each other. I just posted that one because I liked the expression on her daughter's face. She was ecstatic that she got to be in the photo and her mom said something like, "You're being silly" or something along those lines and I just clicked the button mid-laugh from the girl. Probably didn't translate well.

I see your point about the DOF. I tend to shoot pretty shallow for the most part, especially because the location where we met has a lot of... "Stuff" in the background (telephone poles, electrical wires, cars, ugly buildings, walls, etc.). There's a fine line between "historic" and run-down. I tried to capture more of the "historic" and leave out any of the bad stuff.

You're also the second person to mention the low contrast thing. I'm not sure why, but y'all are seeing that and I'm not. I'm going to try my Thunderbolt display when I get home. I foolishly edited these on my MacBook Pro screen and I think I should have probably gone with the bigger display that is more accurate. I'm guessing the colors on the laptop display are off as they're often dependent on angle. I'll go in and fix the edits and bring the contrast back up. I should also look at them on a Windows machine with a different monitor than mine, too, I guess.

I appreciate all your help. I doubt I'll ever attempt to shoot a bride again. At least I hope I won't. Seems I blew this one pretty badly. I really like shooting food and architecture. I am not comfortable shooting people and had it not been a close family friend that asked, I would have absolutely said no.

Thank you guys for your feedback. I'll be leaving the bridal and wedding work to someone who is better at it than I am.

Apr 28, 2014 at 03:52 PM

Steady Hand
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

hi Matthew,

I read your comments above (in reply to mine).

You have a good response except some parts where we disagree.

From my POV:

1. You did not do worse than many "wedding photographers" so you should not see this first effort as your last. You did not fail. You captured some nice images of her.

2. Photographing a bride can be difficult IF you are holding yourself to some "standard" look (as seen in other wedding bridal photos). My suggestion is that you try to capture images that show the unique character or personality of the woman, rather than directing her to "look down at ground" or "stand next to brick wall and hold it up" or similar in a hackneyed pose. Look for the real person and make something uniquely "her."

3. The contrast thing? You should edit using a recently calibrated monitor (especially important when editing images that have a lot of white dress).

If you have not yet calibrated your monitor, do so. You can purchase an inexpensive (about $100) monitor spyder type calibrator that will work on multiple types of displays.

4. IF there is a lot of stuff (historic or not) in the location, it seems to me that there would be MANY opportunities to compose some interesting photos!

I hope these comments help you.

Apr 28, 2014 at 04:01 PM

jefferies1
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

In the first shot I would not have her center and square to the camera. add some angles. In #2 I would prefer to see the flowers in focus. She is a focal point but they are a second point and brides spend a lot of money on bouquets. I also prefer to see the front of the dress in focus, they pay a lot and most like to see the details. I could let a long dress go soft if behind her. Just don't like the soft front/focused center/soft background look in this style of image. In others, try to have the bride relax her face. Tight lips look stressful, not relaxed and happy. A smile is not needed, just a more relaxed lip position. In 3 see how her arm position makes her skin push out around her top. Not many brides like that look. Re-touch it or better yet avoid the look with better arm and body positions. Compare the look to others and they don't show this issue. I am sure she will like these. Not bad overall.

Apr 28, 2014 at 04:48 PM

matthewm
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Thanks again guys!

I'm going to revisit the images and re-edit/remove some. I currently have about 55 images to give her. I don't know if that's normal or too many or too few or what, but I'd rather give her 25 great images than 25 great images and 30 crappy images.

I guess for a first effort, this isn't bad, but it's definitely showing me that I'm in desperate need of some practice/research time. I really focused on other types of photography in school (I'm actually a graphic designer, not a photographer), but I wish I had payed closer attention during the lectures about connecting with my subject.

Probably too busy chasing my wife, who was in school with me. I missed a whole series of lectures that semester. But I got what matters most so I can't complain too much.

I really appreciate all of the great feedback. You guys are rockstars in this field and I really am glad to hear your thoughts. It also makes me kind of proud that nobody has come right out and said that I completely blew it and that I should just sell all my gear and plant sod for a living or something.

Thank you all for your insight, knowledge and encouragement. It's greatly appreciated and I'm very glad to have you guys helping me out. If I ever get suckered into one of these dreadful things again, I'll put your insight to good use.

Apr 28, 2014 at 05:52 PM

BigIronCruiser
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Although there's no fixed rule regarding the # of photo's to show, my personal preference is to only show the ones that really stand out. Providing too many can frustrate or confuse the bride as she sorts through them. Also, keep in mind that one purpose of a bridal session, at least here in the south, is to have a framed enlargement (16x20 or larger) on display at the reception. Most of the guests will never see the wedding photo's, but they will definitely see the bridal portrait. It's your work that will be on display. The bottom line is that quality trumps quantity.

Apr 28, 2014 at 10:51 PM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Lots of good shots here. Here's a few suggestion on what you can do for next time:

Number the shots. It's not too late to number them now. Just edit, insert numbers and you're done.

On shots like #2, that dress really needs to be in focus. It's the 'feature' of that frame.

Shots like #1 - with way too much sky - pull the eye of the viewer to the bright sky. Crop this (with your hand, a piece of paper or by scrolling) to see how she becomes more the subject of the shot. If you had "aimed lower" in this shot, we would see more or all of her dress too.

#4 - Interacting with daughter. Keep doing that! Look for the spontaneous shots like that one.

#5 Watch for and encourage expressions. You can take several shots in a pose like this - serious, smiling etc.

Last shot - Lovely light and great bokeh. The composition could be better. You don't need all that space above here head and you could use more down below. Don't let the arm be a 'leading line' going out of the frame.

You did a good job and this shoot. Don't let my many little comments make you think otherwise.

Apr 29, 2014 at 12:20 AM

Natalie H
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

Hi Matthew,

I enjoyed these in the wedding forum, but didn't comment (I'm no wedding photographer).

I think you did a great job! I particularly like your second shot (Edit: Whoops. I'm referring to the second photo in the second set of photos that you posted). The light in the last one is beautiful, but her pose and expression don't do much for me.

Did you direct / chat to her to evoke the expression in the second shot? If so, then I think you must have more people skills than you think you do.

I wonder whether you'd consider doing another portrait/bridal shoot? I reckon you should! Either way, I'm sure the bride will be thrilled with these photos. Well done.

Natalie

[Edit] P.S. I've just read through the other comments and wanted to say that I can see what others are saying about the slighly low contrast, but I didn't notice it at first, and I really quite like the look you've gone with. I don't agree that you need to bump the contrast.

Apr 29, 2014 at 07:22 AM

vesper
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Hillary // First Bridal Session so C&C Welcomed (Wanted)

A lot of great feedback in here. Love the very first shot and the second shot in the second post. A very standard pose but her happiness shows through and they come off less posed and more candid.

Apr 29, 2014 at 09:41 AM

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