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Archive 2014 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

bogeybrown
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Hello All,

I started with film in the late 90s and resisted the digital age as long as I could. I picked up a used 20D about 5yrs ago and never made it much beyond shooting JPEGs on full auto before coming overseas and setting it aside.

I recently bought a 5DMkII from a friend who referred me to this forum. I have truly enjoyed perusing others' images and trying to glean what I can from C&C on other photos.

These 3 images are quite honestly the first I have ever taken from RAW all the way through Lightroom into a finished JPEG. They are of a tortoise I came across in Zabul Province, Afghanistan. I have seen some interesting animals here, but this is my first tortoise. Like most of the country, he is fairly bland and monochromatic, so making him "interesting" was difficult. Also, the light here is brutally harsh almost the entire day. I'd have loved to shoot him in softer light, but there's only about 10 minutes of that in a day here and that's not when I found him.

I look at other people's images and know that I am missing several really important things, but I don't know what they are. Whether it be filters, settings, post processing techniques, whatever. There is a "quality" and depth that I"m missing with these. All were shot in Aperture Priority.

I'm not looking for ego-stroking or platitudes. There are some INCREDIBLY talented photographers here, and I honestly need your help in truly critiquing the shots. I assure you that your comments will be taken to heart and I will use them as a "guide" of things to try and to experiment with in the future.

Most of the C&C I read through is on very good photos where little nuances are discussed. Here's an "opportunity" to look at some photos that really are lacking, and maybe share some of your wisdom, please?

Sincerest Thanks in Advance for your Comments,
BB

Canon 5Dmkii 24-105 f4L @ 100mm f4 ISO 100 1/1000

Canon 5Dmkii 24-105 f4L @ 85mm f5.6 ISO 100 1/500

Canon 5Dmkii 24-105 f4L @ 105mm f5.6 ISO 100 1/800

Apr 10, 2014 at 07:36 AM

KCollett
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Welcome BB. When I started posting on this forum a few years ago, I started paying attention to the photos I was most attracted to. What about them was I lacking in my own photos, and how could I achieve the same look? I quickly figured out that BG, DOF, perspective, quality of light, framing, composition, and the like all influenced the end results a lot. These are some of the basics. Once you start paying attention to these things when shooting, results can get better quickly. After that comes processing prowess (not there yet), taking on more difficult situations (things like in flight shots for me), and breaking the "rules" intentionally to achieve specific results (doesn't always work, but fun trying). Those are my initial thoughts. Keep being an active learner.

Apr 10, 2014 at 07:54 AM

CosmicCruiser
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

You may want to checkout some LR tutorials on YouTube or the Adobe website. Play with the sliders and get an idea what they do. Checkout the Whites & Blacks sliders, clarity, vibrance, color temp and sharpening. A lot of folks are also using plugins for LR such as NIK software bundle. Possibly look for a weekend seminar for LR in your area. a couple of years ago I went to a weekend LR seminar and learned a lot that I would never figured out on my own. It made a big difference in my LR knowledge. Hope this helps.
Robert

Apr 10, 2014 at 08:22 AM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks KC, I guess that's where I'm coming from. I'm finally at a point where I want to get serious about doing this properly.
I've tried to pull from what I liked in other photos, but I learn best by doing and failing and figuring out why/where I failed. Which is why I'm seeking specific things I'm "missing" so I can work on them.

Apr 10, 2014 at 08:22 AM

birdied
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Welcome BB! Some of the advice given to me was :

1. Try not to shoot down on the subject. Get lower if possible
2. Get closer when you can
3. Get the eye/eyes in focus.
4. Watch your backgrounds. Move a little and see if changing positions will give a better background.

I am still working on all of these things

As to post processing, I don't use Lightroom other than to catalogue and do raw processing, but here is a link that might be of interest to you:

Conrad's Tutorial

Your shots are nice shots taken under some extremely difficult lighting .
Here are my nits , and they are just my very unprofessional still learning and have a long way to go opinion .

1. Out of focus blades of grass in front of the tortoise distract from the subject.
2. While the eye and head are in focus , the out of focus shell in the foreground takes such a large part of the frame , again distracting from the area in focus.
3. Nice clean shot, no distracting elements .

I have played a little with the last shot in Lightroom . I also used the Nik plugin Viveza 2 on the shot. I decreased the exposure, highlights and whites in Lightroom. Increased contrast and did some selective brightness reduction in Viveza. I will pull it down if you like. Everyone has a different taste as to what they like and don't like

This was just a quick 30 seconds of playing with your shot.

I hope some of this helps you. Just keep shooting and playing around with your shots in Lightroom . Keep posting and asking questions.

Birdie

Apr 10, 2014 at 09:30 AM

Karl Witt
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Hello Bogey

Great job in openly asking for help and critique, just realize that it does take time and dedication to get to certain levels and not all folks have all it takes to get there but all folks have room to improve if they desire............like you

Ken made good points initially, I will expand.
Not all shots will be dazzlers, some will be more documentary and others will allow creativity. Turtles in blazing sun don't come across as exciting or options for too much drama but what is it that you like about them? Is it the shape/form, is it the patterning or the colors or perhaps the uniqueness of their eye and face or their feet and claws? Get the 'whole' shot then maybe key on certain parts to emphasize character.

A good rule always to remember is that items that are in the foreground that are OOF (out of focus) tend to be most distracting so do your best to avoid those types of shot set ups. Yes the eye is the critical element to get sharp in any animal image so that is always a key point.

#1 the super low level of your shot adds 'drama', now if you train yourself to watch how the light hits the subject it will be helpful as if in this shot the turtle turned its head the other way and let the light spill into the eye it would have improved

And as mentioned watch out for distractions in front of your subject.
I like this shot best and control of the depth of field worked nice here IMO

#2 this was your chance for pattern and color, grab that shot and bypass the head on this one

#3 head on shots don't show much shape and profile to the face of any critter and rarely turn out all that great, once in a while though there is a unique result. Move to get different angles and profiles.

Overall the sun worked against you. Post processing control of contrast and highlights in this case will be beneficial.
Try to capture the mood or the reason you wanted to take the images and convey them to us. Try different focal length lenses and look through your viewfinder to see how things can change. Simplify to strengthen..........less can be more in a shot, reduce clutter, control light and backgrounds and perception.

A weak subject requires the most from a photographer, a powerful subject requires the least input from the photographer. Great photographers make great images from very little at times. Build your confidence with all kinds of images!

Now, begin to comment on others work here and say what you like about the shot, that will begin to tell you what you need to do to

Don't be intimidated by the final presentation here, just look at the composition and light. In time you will have more control over the color and sharpness as your processing skills improve, that takes the longest to learn. If your comps/exposures and subjects are interesting you will have good images............and a few great ones!

Enjoy and don't get frustrated and expect it to all happen at once, it is a continuous learning curve

Karl

PS I don't recommend trying any advanced processing yet. I suggest you continue to work on solid basics, Exposure, Contrast, Saturation/Vibrance only. Use your eyes as a judge and let others express what they see for feedback. Strengthen your photography then begin to apply more if needed in your post processing...........Simplify=Strength!!

Edited on Apr 10, 2014 at 09:37 AM · View previous versions

Apr 10, 2014 at 09:33 AM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks Robert,

I've been doing exactly that. I have Scott Kelby's book, and have been working through it as well as some LR tutorials on youtube. If anyone is doing a LR seminar in Afgh at the moment, I haven't heard about it

However, I'm likely moving to Chicago once I'm home, so I'm looking at doing one of Brian Peterson's classes up there, and I'm sure someone will be doing a solid LR seminar in that area.
When I last attempted PhotoShop I thought my head would explode with all the options. Lightroom seems to be so simple, but people are getting amazing results from it, which is what leads me to believe that I am obviously missing some things.

Apr 10, 2014 at 09:35 AM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Birdied and Karl,

Thank you both, sincerely. I am literally taking notes, and your advice gives me solid points to build on and seek out solutions to.

To add to the challenge, there is a "No Photography" rule in place here, mainly governing sensitive areas, so I'm working on getting a memo approved to allow me to expand my opportunities. The only other decent ones I've been able to get were standing outside in a lightning storm trying to capture lightning strikes, which I did, but they weren't particularly noteworthy.

On image 2, I think I took several at different apertures so I'll see if I have one with better detail on the shell and play with it. I'll also go through some of the other shots to see if I accidentally got one where I avoided some of these mistakes.

Y'all have been MORE than helpful and I really do appreciate that you've given your time helping me out. In most things I tend to take a "I'll figure this out myself" mindset, but I greatly admire the talent represented here, and decided to forget my ego (maybe mid-life is catching up to me) and trust in the experience of those who know more than me.

Sincerest Thanks,
Nelson

Apr 10, 2014 at 10:01 AM

Summary
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Correct white balance goes a long way. Try and get off Auto White Balance (and use a custom WB) and you'll start to wonder how you ever got by before!

I edited one of the pictures and adjusted the white balance and tweaked the contrast, but that's it.

Apr 10, 2014 at 10:13 AM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks Summary,

I honestly thought I had set adjusted to at least one of the pre-set White Balances in-camera, but when I was uploading the images it appeared that I must not have, or failed to make an adjustment when I switched to Aperture mode. In doing the correction in LR, I toggled through the WB options trying to select which rendered the tones as closely to "real life" as I could.

When working in Lightroom, would you recommend adjusting WB first, before doing anything else? Or doing some basics in Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks and THEN seeing which WB setting works best?

Apr 10, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Summary
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

WB (generally) will not be affected by the other settings you choose. You should always correct your white balance first, however, so that any further adjustments you make will be based off of the correct colour and tone of the image.

Apr 10, 2014 at 10:33 AM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

I just spent a few hours attempting to apply as many suggestions as possible into another shot I had similar to #2 above. I'm not entirely satisfied because my focus was a little soft. The same offending blade of grass is in the way, and after 30 minutes of trying to fix it with the healing brush I had to accept that I wasn't getting anywhere. Hwever, as a purely academic exercise, here it is for your consideration to see if I made any progress:

Apr 10, 2014 at 01:16 PM

Tim Kuhn
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Welcome aboard

Asking for help is a wonderful way to start out here. There are many talented people here, look at their images, read the helpful comments and you can learn a lot. The others have offered some fine advice. I'll add a bit from a different prospective.

I will second Karl on the idea of keeping your post work simple for the time being. Try to remember that unless your goal is digital art your post work should be kept to a minimum. You want to do as little post as you can. Getting it all right in the camera is the name of the game. I would strongly suggest succumbing to the idea that you can "fix" a bad photo in post. You would be far better off if all you have to do is tune your great images in post, not fix them.

Keep at and keep posting!

Tim

Apr 10, 2014 at 03:45 PM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks Tim,

That's where I think I'm struggling. With film, basically everything that happened had to happen "in camera". I didn't crop or mess with images. I worked my butt off to frame a shot and had decent success of getting a final image that was pretty faithful to what I saw in my viewfinder.
With digital, I'm not getting that yet. It looks one way in my viewfinder, another way in the LCD on replay, and then yet another once I've uploaded the RAW.

I think a part of it is re-calibrating my brain, and part of it is better understanding of the equipment and how a digital sensor sees the world compared to how film does.

My goal would be to do little more than maybe adjust an exposure as needed here and there, convert back to JPEG, and be done with it. I'm a fairly literal person, and tend to view things technically rather than artistically. I can draw a schematic but not a kitten. I don't want a final image to be the result of hours in LR. I'd like it to be the result of time spent on the camera.

That's largely why I bit the bullet on good equipment this time.

I rarely see technique discussion in the critique boards, is there an area of the forum I'm missing where folks share some of HOW they got an image?

Apr 10, 2014 at 03:58 PM

Christian H
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Compelling images of tortoises and turtles are hard to come by. I don't find them to be easy subjects. You have to get fairly close, but at close range they become sort of impossibly three-dimensional, so you have to be very deliberate about which parts you want to focus on. And despite their reputation to the contrary they're pretty fast; it's game over when they decide to leave. Add the crazy reflectiveness of the carapace - even when dry - and shots taken in harsh sun are often doomed.

1) Get low, as in hit the ground.
2) Shoot close to sunrise/sunset or, if possible, in somewhat overcast conditions.

Apr 10, 2014 at 03:58 PM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks Christian,

You pretty much nailed the experience. I was lying completely on the ground, with the camera just high enough to be able to hold it, and even with the 105mm he and I were very intimate. He decided to bugger off and actually came and nestled up against me because I was producing the only shade available.
Where I really battled in post was the light on the shell as you mentioned. I didn't know how to tame the highlights on the shell. The bright seams were blown out and I couldn't drop the exposure enough to control them without way underexposing the whole image. The last image I posted was after some work with selective exposure/highlight correction just on the super-bright highlights.

I'm treating the tortoise as a good learning tool for some difficult "issues". I know I made some in-camera mistakes along with some framing errors, which is why I chose this for critique. I knew I was wrong, but wasn't sure where.

Apr 10, 2014 at 04:12 PM

surfnron
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Welcome Nelson.

You are starting an incredibly rewarding, but demanding hobby. Take it slow, work on your camera skills so that your post is simple. And remember, the vast majority couldn't decide to run a marathon, and complete it without a lot of work to prepare. Photography requires that you put in the work before being able to consistently produce great work. Just keep at it, work hard, study, and you will get there ~ Ron

Apr 11, 2014 at 12:26 PM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Thanks Ron,

In so many areas of my life, I have taken the plunge, gone as far as I could, and THEN stopped to realize that I was missing the basics.
I basically did that with photography many years ago, and when the digital age came about I buried my head pretending it would go away (I still have my film body and a stash of film hidden away). :-)

I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to commit to the journey and doing things properly and understanding the fundamentals. My hope is to do some live courses once I'm back in the States.

This forum has been an amazing resource for me thus far, and I really appreciate the welcome and the helpful advice I've received from so many members.

Nelson

Apr 11, 2014 at 12:42 PM

Shasoc
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Hi, Nelson. Welcome to the Forum

You already got some very good advices and comments. I just wanted to point out the importance of having the right gear. I don't see the list of your photo gear, so if you already haven't, you need to start thinking about using a bigger lens. While approaching a turtle is easy enough you will mostly find yourself in situations where the subject will not let you get so close and you wished you had a bigger lens

Practice a lot! The best way to take good pictures is to take pictures

Socrate

Apr 11, 2014 at 04:46 PM

bogeybrown
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · ABSOLUTE Novice in Need of Critique

Hi Shasoc,

You are absolutely right. I've always shot with medium to long zooms so I could fill a frame.
So far I started with the 24-105 just to get a feel for what focal range I'm doing most of my shooting in and where I feel I'm lacking so I can better select my next lenses.

Right now I'm looking at the 100-400L as my next one, but I"m still doing research.

The 70-200 is also really attractive as an intermdiate lens, but I can't figure out whether to spend the money on the faster lens without IS or the slower lens with IS. I unfortunately can't justify the price of the fast lens with IS at this point.

Apr 11, 2014 at 04:53 PM

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