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Archive 2014 · Arches Natl Park

ponz924
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Arches Natl Park

Again - Please help me get better - Ponz

Jan 26, 2014 at 04:23 PM

msoomro
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Arches Natl Park

Composition wise i'd pick #2,3 & 5. In #3 I'd boost some contrast and reds.

Jan 26, 2014 at 04:29 PM

Robert Snow
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Arches Natl Park

The third image down is, for me, a unique viewpoint of delicate arch. I don't even remember another 'arch' in that area.

Really nice shot!

bob snow

Jan 27, 2014 at 11:32 AM

ckcarr
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Arches Natl Park

Well, a good place to start when you're uncertain is the Photo Critique board. What I can say, just looking quickly, is that you were really trying to come up with a good composition with each one. So that's good. However, to get a truly beautiful Arches N.P. shot you need to figure on being there before sunrise, or right before sunset. That's when the sandstone comes alive, when the low sun's rays are skimming the rock. Other times in Arches just don't cut it. If you're travelling, then that's a better time to scout locations. So location, then timing, and luck. Also, to be just a little critical, the colors look to be the type an in camera jpeg processing creates. So you need to shoot raw (maybe you did, but I can't tell), and work over in post processing. If you can set the in-camera JPEG settings, I'd adjust to "Standard."

Good luck!

Jan 27, 2014 at 12:18 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Arches Natl Park

I agree with everything said so far.
I always shoot RAW and PP either in LR5 or ACR.

It was definitely the wrong time of day to shoot. The sun was too high in the sky for sure. If I tried to bring out more reds in post, other colors went haywire.

Keep em' coming guys!

Ponz

Jan 27, 2014 at 04:14 PM

JimFox
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Arches Natl Park

Hey Ponz,

Nice work here, nothing earth shattering, but nice work. The best way to learn is to do just what you are doing, getting out and shooting.

I think all of your compositions here look well thought out, that's very good. Not everyone has an eye for good layouts. And for day time shots, I actually think you did a good job with the exposures except for #3. You have some rocks that are too bright and also some clouds in the sky that are too bright. When shooting during the day in rocky country like that a polarizer can be used to help knock that glare down a bit. Now it can mess up the sky when shooting WA, but if there are clouds like you have in these shots, the polarizer blob in the sky will be minimized. Or just take a second shot where you adjust the polarizer just for the sky to darken it slightly, but not so much that a circle of blue appears in the sky. Then back at home, just blend the two shots. Also for #3, you could double process the raw shot, one version to underexpose the highlights, and a 2nd exposure to brighten the shadows, and then just blend the two.

It's great you are shooting Raw, that's what one should do.

As for shooting during the day, as Craig said, obviously early morning and late in the day will get you the best soft light and perhaps some color in the clouds. But I will say shooting during the day is fine too, it just depends on the location. Use a polarizer to help knock off the harsh light reflecting off rocks and leaves and such. And there are certain locations where a midday light is needed to get down into a canyon. With midday light if there are clouds in the sky, it can still look good.

Jim

Jan 27, 2014 at 06:13 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Arches Natl Park

JimFox wrote:
Hey Ponz,

Nice work here, nothing earth shattering, but nice work. The best way to learn is to do just what you are doing, getting out and shooting.

I think all of your compositions here look well thought out, that's very good. Not everyone has an eye for good layouts. And for day time shots, I actually think you did a good job with the exposures except for #3. You have some rocks that are too bright and also some clouds in the sky that are too bright. When shooting during the day in rocky country like that a polarizer can be...Show more →

Lots of good advice here Jim - from all. We (girlfriend and I) didn't get up early enough for better light.

Unfortunately, I'm good enough with CS6 to be dangerous

I barely have any experience with layers or merging/blending. I guess it's past time to learn! I'll have to look through my files to see if I have other exposures to play with.

Like we all know, a polarizer on a very wide angle causes "blotchy" sections in the sky, so I had to use it sparingly.

Thank you for taking the time ......

Ponz

Jan 27, 2014 at 08:12 PM

dalongfellow
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Arches Natl Park

Just in the spirit of constructive crits:

-- Take a look at your sky color in #1 vs. the other images. You've got a lot of cyan/aqua going on there which doesn't help. Something to watch for.

-- When you compose, think about simplifying the scene. Are there elements that you can isolate or things you can leave out to strengthen the composition? #2 has some really interesting elements, but there are a lot of them and it gets a bit busy for me (plus it's really tight on the bottom of the featured tree).

-- Tough light in #3, but interesting perspective and not a common one. Congratulations on finding something different!

-- Light's getting better on #4, and you're bringing out some good texture in the featured rocks.

Just a few thoughts that I hope can give you some things to consider. Keep them coming.

Dave

Jan 27, 2014 at 08:20 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Arches Natl Park

Would someone please point me to a tutorial on how to blend two shots together?
A web search merely brings me to combining two separate scenes, which I can do the 'hard' way!

Thanks - Ponz

Jan 27, 2014 at 08:33 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Arches Natl Park

dalongfellow wrote:
Just in the spirit of constructive crits:

-- Take a look at your sky color in #1 vs. the other images. You've got a lot of cyan/aqua going on there which doesn't help. Something to watch for.

-- When you compose, think about simplifying the scene. Are there elements that you can isolate or things you can leave out to strengthen the composition? #2 has some really interesting elements, but there are a lot of them and it gets a bit busy for me (plus it's really tight on the bottom of the featured tree).

-- Tough light in #3, but interesting...Show more →

Thank you Dave. It was a slightly TREACHEROUS climb, with new equipment in hand, to get #3.....

Jan 27, 2014 at 08:37 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Arches Natl Park

OK - I found another shot that was slightly underexposed and worked it.

Any better?

Jan 27, 2014 at 09:04 PM

JimFox
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Arches Natl Park

ponz924 wrote:
Would someone please point me to a tutorial on how to blend two shots together?
A web search merely brings me to combining two separate scenes, which I can do the 'hard' way!

Thanks - Ponz

Luminous Landscapes has lots of good tutorials, you should check them out.

One of my favorite ways is pretty simple.

1. Convert your raw image two times. One for the highlights being properly exposed, and a 2nd for the dark areas. So the first image will be darker since the shadows will go dark as the bright areas are exposed right, and the 2nd image will be brighter since you are exposing for the shadows or darker areas.

2. Bring both layers into one file. In Photoshop, open up both conversions, drag the brighter one on top of the darker one, hold down the "Shift" key as you drag, and the layer you are dragging will center itself perfectly, so no need to worry about alignment.

3. Make sure the top (brighter layer) is selected in the Layer Pane. Now press "Ctrl" + "Alt" + "2" at the same time. This will select the highlights of the scene. You will see the selection of marching ants.

4. Press the "Alt" key while clicking on the Layer Mask Icon in the Layer Pane, and you will get an instant Layer mask from the selection.

5. You will see that the bright areas now look better as it pulled the darker sky, etc from the bottom layer.

6. Flatten the layers, and then go and adjust the contrast and whatever processing you want to do.

There is so many little nuances to this, but that's the basic steps to do what we call Double Processing of a Raw shot. It should at least get you started in the right direction with layer masking.

Jim

Jan 27, 2014 at 09:07 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Arches Natl Park

JimFox wrote:
Luminous Landscapes has lots of good tutorials, you should check them out.

One of my favorite ways is pretty simple.

1. Convert your raw image two times. One for the highlights being properly exposed, and a 2nd for the dark areas. So the first image will be darker since the shadows will go dark as the bright areas are exposed right, and the 2nd image will be brighter since you are exposing for the shadows or darker areas.

2. Bring both layers into one file. In Photoshop, open up both conversions, drag the brighter one on top of the darker one, hold down...Show more →

Many thanks! Look above. Any better?

Ponz

Jan 27, 2014 at 09:18 PM

JimFox
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Arches Natl Park

Hey Ponz,

Your edit of #3 is a very good improvement, the rocks especially have lost that harsh light look. Good work.

Jim

Jan 27, 2014 at 09:32 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Arches Natl Park

JimFox wrote:
Hey Ponz,

Your edit of #3 is a very good improvement, the rocks especially have lost that harsh light look. Good work.

Jim

I was just admiring some of your work. All I can say is, "Wow"

Ponz

Jan 27, 2014 at 09:37 PM

jdc562
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Arches Natl Park

You have already received a lot of good advice here, especially on the lighting by time of day. One thing to remember is that your eye has a much better range of perception of exposure and color than does the camera. Regarding your starting from an image under exposed or over exposed, in digital (as opposed to film) a little over-exposed is better than under-exposed (providing you didn't blow-out the whites). The adage is "expose to the right," (regarding the histogram), then adjust in processing. Your images look like they are at a good starting point. I'm no processing expert, but there are multiple adjustments to correct your washed out reds, etc., without having the other colors "go haywire," as you described. For example, do the adjustments in ACR as Jim recommended. Then in CS6 "saturation," work color by color instead of "master." Another is the "selective color" adjustment (a good place to start after your levels or curves adjustments). This will help adjust your image to the effect you want (need), including correcting less-than-best lighting. Having said this, I think you are on a good track of not over-doing the saturation and contrast that we often see in the garishly over-processed images from southern Utah.
---John

Jan 28, 2014 at 02:02 PM

ponz924
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Arches Natl Park

jdc562 wrote:
You have already received a lot of good advice here, especially on the lighting by time of day. One thing to remember is that your eye has a much better range of perception of exposure and color than does the camera. Regarding your starting from an image under exposed or over exposed, in digital (as opposed to film) a little over-exposed is better than under-exposed (providing you didn't blow-out the whites). The adage is "expose to the right," (regarding the histogram), then adjust in processing. Your images look like they are at a good starting point. I'm no processing expert,...Show more →

Thanks John. I've been using the color sliders in ACR to tweak. Perhaps I'll ship to CS6 and manipulate those sliders instead?

Ponz

Jan 28, 2014 at 05:32 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Arches Natl Park

Nice eye for composition. For these sorts of landscapes, the quality of the light is absolutely critical. While it is possible to produce good landscape work in daytime light, these subjects would work a lot better in softer light. Need to be there before dawn and come back late and stay until the light is gone.

One more thought - when you compose our shots, think a lot about how elements do or do not juxtapose and especially watch for overlaps where one thing crosses into the other or obscures another element. These cannot always be avoided, but often you can move a bit - forward/backward, left/right, up/down - and minimize them. Note how the foreground tree in #2 crosses over the boundary with the red rocks, and how it gets buried a bit in the foliage that is behind it. In #4 the bush at the left side interferes with the view of the red rock tower without providing any particular value to the shot - and in this terrain a move to the right might have eliminated that.

Good luck,

Dan

Jan 28, 2014 at 10:49 PM

jdc562
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Arches Natl Park

ponz924 wrote:
Thanks John. I've been using the color sliders in ACR to tweak. Perhaps I'll ship to CS6 and manipulate those sliders instead?

Ponz

I got my workflow advice in ACR (8.2) and PhotoShop (CS6) from an old pro, and I don't know how many other ways one can get comparable results. I only use ACR to adjust exposure extremes, rescue images with problem shadows and highlights, and, above all, to remove noise. From inside ACR, I use the "open image" button, which opens the image in CS6, where I do the other adjustments (e.g., levels, curves, selective color, saturation, sharpen, contrast, etc.). I have no basis for evaluating this workflow process vs. other methods, but it works for me. Also, I think the CS6 adjustments are more flexible and correctable, but I'm not expert enough to give you an authoritative answer.

Jan 29, 2014 at 01:35 AM

ponz924
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Arches Natl Park

gdanmitchell wrote:
Nice eye for composition. For these sorts of landscapes, the quality of the light is absolutely critical. While it is possible to produce good landscape work in daytime light, these subjects would work a lot better in softer light. Need to be there before dawn and come back late and stay until the light is gone.

One more thought - when you compose our shots, think a lot about how elements do or do not juxtapose and especially watch for overlaps where one thing crosses into the other or obscures another element. These cannot always be avoided, but often you can...Show more →

I seee xactly what you mean. I guess I've never analyzed a shot that much, but will from now on!

Thanks a lot - Ponz

Jan 29, 2014 at 01:20 PM

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