Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Landscape Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
  

Archive 2014 · East side of Zabriskie Point

  
 
mabidally
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Really like this, beautiful colours with well controlled shadows and vivid textures.


Jan 03, 2014 at 02:03 PM
naturesmoments
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Stunning shot!!! Congratulations!


Jan 03, 2014 at 04:46 PM
Irishman
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Mickey wrote:
I like the color you got in the foreground but I can't find Zabriskie Point. Is that the highway on the left?


You're mistaking Zabrinski Point with Manly Beacon.



Jan 03, 2014 at 06:12 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Irishman wrote:
You're mistaking Zabrinski Point with Manly Beacon.


I'm not. Manly Beacon is on the opposite side



Jan 03, 2014 at 06:53 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · East side of Zabriskie Point


I'm virtually certain that Zabriskie Point is the location of the observation area, on which many people stand to view the other stuff that surrounds it, and not one of the features in the surrounding terrain. It is generally more accurate to speak of the view from Zabriskie Point than the view of the point.

As you stand there, to your far right are the Red Cliffs, and then as you scan back from right to left your eyes will pass across Manly Beacon (It named after "Manly" but I've seen it spelled Manley, too.). The general drainage here heads down toward Golden Canyon, and hiking up Golden Canyon can give you another perspective on these features that helps you sort them out.

Directly in front of you is a small area of Death Valley itself below the massive Panamint Range on the far side of the Valley. At dawn, the light starts on the summit of the Panamints, works its way down to the Valley and across it, and then finally arrives at the nearer features such as Manly Beacon. Below you is Gower Gulch, comes from behind you and to your right before dropping toward the Valley in front of you. The famous furrowed feature with the darker rock near its top, located across Gower Gulch to your right and in front of you is The Manifold. The gully shown in this photo heads back toward Twenty Mule Team Canyon and the mountains dividing it from Death Valley - the Black Mountains if I recall correctly. It rises on the far side of Gower Gulch. Sometimes this whole area of convoluted geology is referred to as the "badlands."

The coloration of this rock is much paler than what you see in most photographs, including this one. (Though here we can chalk the dark and dramatic coloration and tones at least partially to a photograph made in near darkness.) It isn't easy to get an effective photograph of this very light material - which continues on in a long vein up into 20 Mule Team Canyon. Consequently, quite a few (most?) of the photographs of the feature have enhanced contrast and saturation considerably in post. (I think some might even be a bit disappointed to see it "in the flesh" if their experience has been with photographs.)

Death Valley is not predominantly a place of vivid and saturated colors - with a few exceptions. Most of the features are somewhere between gray and tan and a haze-caused bluish tone. Even the vegetation is paler than what we are used to from other locales - with the green leaning more toward blueish-green, tan, a dusty gray-green, or just plain gray. Even a location with a reputation for color like Artist Palette turns out to be less intense that you think it will be. The salt flats are nearly white, though they can also be intensely blue when photographed under open sky in low light. One of the real challenges of shooting in Death Valley is coming to terms with the colors that are actually there. Many photographers never do, and they continue to saturate and push contrast to levels that can create a false sense of what the place is like rather than dealing with what it actually is.

There are some sources of color, from subtle to intense in this place. Some of the wildflowers can be very beautiful and color for a week or two in the right year, but they only rarely form large patches of color and are usually best if shot close up. (There are exceptions, but they are unusual.) Then there is the astonishing color that can be produced at the beginning and end of the day in the right conditions. These sunrise or sunset (or pre-dawn and post-sunset) colors can occasionally verge on just plain unbelievable, and they paint this drab landscape with intense colors at times. I have a few photographs that are so wildly colorful that I got tired of having to explain that, yes, it really did look like this.

Dan



Jan 03, 2014 at 07:17 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Dan,
Correct. I was actually walking up the hill to the observation area and took the shot the the left. I assumed the whole area (including the surroundings of the observation area) are all Zabriskie Point. I guess they're not
Sorry for the confusion.



Jan 03, 2014 at 08:21 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Let's not get hung up on the details of exactly what ths area is called. I'd like to bring the focus of the thread back to the image which is stunning. Love the detail and the range of tones in the image. Well done...no matter what people call this place.


Jan 03, 2014 at 08:26 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · East side of Zabriskie Point


chez wrote:
Let's not get hung up on the details of exactly what ths area is called. I'd like to bring the focus of the thread back to the image which is stunning. Love the detail and the range of tones in the image. Well done...no matter what people call this place.


Thank you Chez.



Jan 03, 2014 at 08:34 PM
Kee Woo Rhee
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · East side of Zabriskie Point


gdanmitchell wrote:
I'm virtually certain that Zabriskie Point is the location of the observation area, on which many people stand to view the other stuff that surrounds it, and not one of the features in the surrounding terrain. It is generally more accurate to speak of the view from Zabriskie Point than the view of the point.

As you stand there, to your far right are the Red Cliffs, and then as you scan back from right to left your eyes will pass across Manly Beacon (It named after "Manly" but I've seen it spelled Manley, too.). The general drainage here heads down
...Show more

Dan,
I am learning a great deal from your explanation. I whole heartily agree most of your opinion here and appreciate that.
Especially the color scheme of Death Valley, being to the pale side. Quite often people including myself go overboard the intensity of the contrast level. I need to remind myself of that. Thanks again. -Kee



Jan 03, 2014 at 08:49 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · East side of Zabriskie Point


This shot isn't over saturated. You guys realize that the sun was setting at the time. So, you would rather take some of the colors away to agree with the fact that DV is more on the pale side?
If someone has a shot from the same location please let me see what it "should" look like



Jan 03, 2014 at 08:55 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Gregg B. wrote:
This shot isn't over saturated. You guys realize that the sun was setting at the time. So, you would rather take some of the colors away to agree with the fact that DV is more on the pale side?
If someone has a shot from the same location please let me see what it "should" look like


The bottom line here is it really doesn't matter how others process their images, whether they like pale dull colours or bright vivid colours...this image is yours and you have every right to process it any way you like to express your vision. I've never been to this location so I don't know how it really looks, and really don't care how it looks. I let your image stand on it's own and what I see is fantastic.



Jan 03, 2014 at 09:57 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · East side of Zabriskie Point


chez wrote:
The bottom line here is it really doesn't matter how others process their images, whether they like pale dull colours or bright vivid colours...this image is yours and you have every right to process it any way you like to express your vision. I've never been to this location so I don't know how it really looks, and really don't care how it looks. I let your image stand on it's own and what I see is fantastic.


Thank you Chez. I appreciate your comment.



Jan 03, 2014 at 10:14 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Gregg B. wrote:
This shot isn't over saturated. You guys realize that the sun was setting at the time. So, you would rather take some of the colors away to agree with the fact that DV is more on the pale side?
If someone has a shot from the same location please let me see what it "should" look like


Actually, I acknowledged that your shot's colors were different since the shot was at night. Night colors are a whole different thing than daytime colors. (I do a lot of night photography, though more often of urban/industrial subjects, and one of the things that I enjoy about shooting at night is the odd and intense colors that are possible when shooting in near darkness.) So my comment was more about a general trend that I've seen in a lot of DEVA photos than about your photo.

And, about what a night photograph "should" look like... you've touched on another wonderful thing (at least in my opinion) about night shooting, namely that it is pretty much impossible to say what a shot of something that you can't actually see with your eyes "should" look like. So, you have a ton of freedom to interpret almost any way you want.

So, I don't think we have an argument...

Dan

I have some photographs of this feature, but I won't spam your thread with them. If anyone is interested, here are offsite links to two:

1. A night photograph under full moon of The Manifold above Gower Gulch: link #1

2. A photograph of your gulch in morning light, a few hours after sunrise: link #2

3. Same gully, also morning, but a different time of year: link #3



Jan 03, 2014 at 11:12 PM
Gregg B.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Hey Dan,
Thanks for your answer. It's a logical explanation that only make sense.
As for you shots, that are completely different. I like number 2 a lot. It virtually has no colors. It must've been very bright that day. But like you said your shot was taken a few ours after the sunrise, and mine was a half an hour after the sunset. Also, they are all nice shots but little bit too small in my opinion. I wish I could see them at twice the resolution. I think 640px (and that includes the frame) is too small but that just my opinion.
Thanks for sharing. I guess this place can be seen/photographed in many different colors



Jan 03, 2014 at 11:52 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Gregg B. wrote:
Hey Dan,
Thanks for your answer. It's a logical explanation that only make sense.
As for you shots, that are completely different. I like number 2 a lot. It virtually has no colors. It must've been very bright that day. But like you said your shot was taken a few ours after the sunrise, and mine was a half an hour after the sunset. Also, they are all nice shots but little bit too small in my opinion. I wish I could see them at twice the resolution. I think 640px (and that includes the frame) is too small but
...Show more

I share small and print big, often at 22.5" x 30" and occasionally larger. I wish I could share high resolution large images online but that has proven to be unfeasible for a variety of reasons. (Anyone living in the SF Bay Area can contact me if they want to see what the prints look like. If you are in the San Jose area you can see a dozen of them through tomorrow locally - let me know. Visitors to Yosemite will find one in the annual juried Yosemite Renaissance Festival exhibit in the Valley starting in late February.

But online... small only I'm afraid. ;-)

Dan



Jan 03, 2014 at 11:58 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · East side of Zabriskie Point


"...Night shooting... So, you have a ton of freedom to interpret almost any way you want."

I'd say we have the freedom to interpret how we want no matter what the type of photo taken. Photography is art.

As far as the image goes. Great job! On a calibrated monitor (on Chrome) the colors look nice to me. I do think the upper part could come down a hair in saturation and still have just as much impact. But it looks nice as is. It is your vision!



Jan 04, 2014 at 04:23 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · East side of Zabriskie Point


I wrote, in part::
"...Night shooting... So, you have a ton of freedom to interpret almost any way you want."


And...

Mark Metternich replied:
I'd say we have the freedom to interpret how we want no matter what the type of photo taken. Photography is art.


There is a grain of truth in that statement, in that there are no rules that require one to create art in any specific way. And, yes, photography can be art. However it is a naive notion of how art or anything else works and that is never quite the end of it. It is in the same lineage as other naive notions that range from "art should be pretty" or "art should make me feel good" to "art must upset people" or "great art is iconoclastic."

Yes, one does have the "freedom" to do whatever one wants in a photograph or other work of art. I don't recall anyone seriously disputing that "right."

Yet, it is as wrong to simply leave it at "You are an artist, so you can do anything you want!" as it is to follow the "You must learn and follow the rules of composition and color and all the rest" if you are to make good art.

While you have the right to do whatever you want in art, it does not follow that doing whatever you want will make what you do into art. What you do must ultimately communicate something effectively to others if your art is to be what you likely want it to be. While you cannot listen to or respond to every individual voice that speaks critically (both in the positive and negative sense) about your work, ultimately virtually all artists want their work to speak to others. And, for this reason, virtually every artist - including the greatest - understands that there are consequences to artistic decisions and that these are important to consider.

If this were not the case, why would there even be a board like this one? And why would people even imagine that discussion of the "quality" or power or effectiveness of art would be a worthwhile subject?

So, while there is no rule about how far you can push the saturation slider or how steep you can make the curve or how far you can move a color balance slider or whether or not a blurred overlay layer is a good or bad thing, each of these choices has consequences and there is more to the final work than, "It is art! You did whatever you wanted!"

Take care,

Dan

Edited on Jan 05, 2014 at 01:00 AM · View previous versions



Jan 04, 2014 at 10:37 AM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · East side of Zabriskie Point


gdanmitchell wrote:
And...

There is a grain of truth in that statement, in that there are no rules that require one to create art in any specific way. And, yes, photography can be art. However it is a naive notion of how art or anything else works and that is never quite the end of it. It is in the same lineage as other naive notions that range from "art should be pretty" or "art should make me feel good" to "art must upset people" or "great art is iconoclastic."

Yes, one does have the "freedom" to do whatever one wants in a photograph
...Show more

Yeh, go tell Pete Turner that his exaggerated high saturation photography is not considered art. Not only are we trying to put bounds on photography...now art as well.



Jan 04, 2014 at 11:14 AM
DougDolde
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · East side of Zabriskie Point


Stunning image congrats. And I don't agree with Dan about the color

Edited on Jan 07, 2014 at 06:14 PM · View previous versions



Jan 06, 2014 at 06:23 PM
lgatlin
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · East side of Zabriskie Point


STUNNING!
Lonnie



Jan 06, 2014 at 11:33 PM
1      
2
       3       end




FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.