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Archive 2013 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

  
 
carstenw
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Jonas B wrote:
I can't imagine the Rokkor (or Summicron) 40/2 have smooth bokeh, or anything better than average. I came to think about the Rokkor/Summicron 40/2 as we discussed it earlier and seeing your image above was taken at f/2.8 I wondered if the small RF lens couldn't have done that for you. I don't think I need a direct comparison, I take your word for it (about the Rokkor/Summicron wide open).


To be honest, I have never seen photos from a 40mm where I liked the boke. Some do, but I find it nervous and agitating.



Dec 07, 2013 at 06:42 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Jonas, if you are considering huge lenses anyway, then here are some samples from the ZF 35/1.4.

Really, this thread needs more images and less descriptions

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20121126_NikonD800_0001.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20121127_NikonD800_0011-2.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20121215_NikonD800_0013.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20121215_NikonD800_0014.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20130713_NikonD800_0011.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20130713_NikonD800_0097.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20130825_NikonD800_0672.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20130825_NikonD800_0733.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/CW_20130825_NikonD800_0738.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0016.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0019.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0034.jpg

Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 06:54 PM · View previous versions



Dec 07, 2013 at 06:52 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Jonas B wrote:
That is quite a list sebboh and I would like to thank you for the time and effort you have put into your reply.

At position 15) you have a Rokkor MC HH 35/1.8. I don't know a lot about the Rokkor lenses... the colours are nice, I sometimes like the rendering, sometimes not. I have been looking for images taken with the MD 35/1.8. I don't know how similar that version is to the MC HH version but IIRC they are pretty different. Do you have any experience from the MD version?

I don't think I am really that super
...Show more

thanks for the info on the pentax and the pen f.

wrt the minolta MD 35/1.8 with 49mm filter thread (there is an earlier MD with a 55mm filter thread that is optically identical to the MC HH but with updated coatings i believe), i have never been able to track down much in the way of images from it or a reasonably priced copy for myself (i spent a long time looking till i got my c/y 35/1.4). it has the same number of elements and groups but is 2cm shorter and has a more plasticky build. from my experience with other minolta lens updates i would guess that the late MD version draws similarly to the MC but has slightly better contrast and center sharpness but more vignetting and slightly weaker corners. it probably is also optimized for performance at portrait distances. in general rokkors have good color, a fair amount of SA at large apertures, and slightly lower contrast compared to their contemporaries.

one lens i forgot that might be interesting is the minolta 35/2 AF, which could be used with pellical mirror to AF (manual focus with it will suck). it relatively small and probably a better performer than the nikon 35/2 AF-D. extreme corners never get critically sharp though and there are a number of visible aberrations at f/2.



Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 06:59 PM · View previous versions



Dec 07, 2013 at 06:54 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


carstenw wrote:
To be honest, I have never seen photos from a 40mm where I liked the boke. Some do, but I find it nervous and agitating.


you stand corrected: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/969329/484#11158788




Dec 07, 2013 at 06:56 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?




True, I do like the rendering in that shot. I have to say though that it has a distinct lack of high frequency content in the background It is also not wide open. I should have been more specific there, although that is pretty nice for f/2.8.



Dec 07, 2013 at 06:58 PM
Jonas B
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


wfrank wrote:
Honestly I dont know. But I bet it would do very good for a shot like that. I dont have fidelity anywhere close to eg sebboh and some others that make subjective lists like what's in this thread. I like contrast and character in the bokeh, but not stressful ones which I see every now and then from some lenses I dont like. I am fully able to see CA and some other optical deficiencies but think they're vastly overly exaggerated here at FM. The image perspective is often lost.

To me the RX1 bokeh is very nice, sharpness seem
...Show more

I think that is very much comparing both the image quality and the lens size and weight. It also is about personal taste...


The link you posted with the G 35 image shows a very nice and strong bokeh character which is exactly what I like (though focus was moronicly executed). But you think differently which is a strong indication that many of these things are very subjective :-)


...just as you mention here. Yes, I think very differently about the rendering of the background in that image. The bright outlines and added to that the way the brightest part of them are all aimed towards the center of the image is not to my taste at all. Reminds me about the ugliness made by the CV 25/0.95 for µ4/3 - and some like it, some do not, and that's fine by me. The problem comes when the words are used differently. For example; soft and gentle = harsh and nervous, nice = ugly. As long as we can talk those things can be sorted though.

Other parameters are easier to quantify, measure and discuss.

Yes, we are discussing technicalities here. Personally I'm sure the vast majority of my images would look just as fine with most of the lenses sebboh mentioned in his list. By nature this forum often gets carried away by details that has squat to do with what people looking at images are seeing. So it is.

After all this I wouldn't mind re-buying the CV35/1.2. The size/weight is of no concern at all to me. Then I may be able to focus on the images instead of the gear.

Cheers,

Jonas



Dec 07, 2013 at 07:03 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


carstenw wrote:


True, I do like the rendering in that shot. I have to say though that it has a distinct lack of high frequency content in the background It is also not wide open. I should have been more specific there, although that is pretty nice for f/2.8.


i think there's a fair bit of high frequency stuff there with the fence, gravel, trash, plants, etc.

yeah, it's bokeh is pretty terrible at f/2, but sometimes i like it anyway:


surviver by sebboh, on Flickr


horizon by sebboh, on Flickr


not a rabbit hole by sebboh, on Flickr


wild iris by sebboh, on Flickr


in the future by sebboh, on Flickr



Dec 07, 2013 at 07:09 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


wfrank wrote:
Honestly I dont know. But I bet it would do very good for a shot like that. I dont have fidelity anywhere close to eg sebboh and some others that make subjective lists like what's in this thread. I like contrast and character in the bokeh, but not stressful ones which I see every now and then from some lenses I dont like. I am fully able to see CA and some other optical deficiencies but think they're vastly overly exaggerated here at FM. The image perspective is often lost.

To me the RX1 bokeh is very nice, sharpness seem
...Show more

To be honest, if you're talking about a total combination of IQ and size, the RX1's 35mm may be the closest thing to a holy grail 35 that there is, but it comes stuck to a camera. If it was available in an interchangeable version (which basically impossible,) I'm sure people would be clamoring for it.

Hilariously, I've been shooting a lot of square ratio, so I'm not even taking advantage of the RX1's corner resolution these days.



Dec 07, 2013 at 07:14 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


douglasf13 wrote:
To be honest, if you're talking about a total combination of IQ and size, the RX1's 35mm may be the closest thing to a holy grail 35 that there is, but it comes stuck to a camera. If it was available in an interchangeable version (which basically impossible,) I'm sure people would be clamoring for it.

Hilariously, I've been shooting a lot of square ratio, so I'm not even taking advantage of the RX1's corner resolution these days.


+1 It is a sort of "Holy Grail" lens for many of us because, just as Philip has also mentioned, it offers a rare combination of attributes that I don't believe exist in any other 35mm focal length lens. On one hand, it is clinical enough to be a great traditional landscape lens with corner to corner sharpness and on the other it is also a very flattering lens for environmental portraits with unusually smooth, creamy bokeh. It is also uncommonly free from aberrations wide open. As Douglas has also pointed out previously, the uncorrected distortion can even work to enhance portraits. I'm not aware of that sort of dual personality in any other moderate wide angle lens, which is why the hunt for something that performs similarly for the A7's is going to be tough.



Dec 07, 2013 at 07:53 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Jonas B wrote:
At position 15) you have a Rokkor MC HH 35/1.8. I don't know a lot about the Rokkor lenses... the colours are nice, I sometimes like the rendering, sometimes not. I have been looking for images taken with the MD 35/1.8. I don't know how similar that version is to the MC HH version but IIRC they are pretty different. Do you have any experience from the MD version?



Here are some shots with the MD 35 f/1.8 with the 49mm threads. Minolta people debate whether this lens or the older version are better. I liked it a lot. If you search the archives and look for weezeintrumpet you will see some lovely portraits of models with this lens. Both he and I shot it on an APS-C sensor, however. Here are my much more feeble attempts.











Edited on Dec 08, 2013 at 11:50 AM · View previous versions



Dec 07, 2013 at 08:04 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
+1 It is a sort of "Holy Grail" lens for many of us because, just as Philip has also mentioned, it offers a rare combination of attributes that I don't believe exist in any other 35mm focal length lens. On one hand, it is clinical enough to be a great traditional landscape lens with corner to corner sharpness and on the other it is also a very flattering lens for environmental portraits with unusually smooth, creamy bokeh. It is also uncommonly free from aberrations wide open. As Douglas has also pointed out previously, the uncorrected distortion can even work
...Show more

i personally think that the c/y 35/1.4 is (slightly) better for portraits under many circumstances and solidly good for landscaping though it needs to be stopped down a fair bit more than the rx1 to get sharp corners (and they're never quite as sharp).

the problems with the c/y 35/1.4 are: CA (both types), some coma, corner bokeh, bokeh doesn't really improve stopping down, and you really should stop down to f/11 for landscapes.

i was pleasantly surprised to find that the rx1 was able to beat out the c/y 35/1.4 as my favorite 35mm ever.




Dec 07, 2013 at 08:05 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


sebboh wrote:
i personally think that the c/y 35/1.4 is (slightly) better for portraits under many circumstances and solidly good for landscaping though it needs to be stopped down a fair bit more than the rx1 to get sharp corners (and they're never quite as sharp).

the problems with the c/y 35/1.4 are: CA (both types), some coma, corner bokeh, bokeh doesn't really improve stopping down, and you really should stop down to f/11 for landscapes.

i was pleasantly surprised to find that the rx1 was able to beat out the c/y 35/1.4 as my favorite 35mm ever.



I can certainly see why some might prefer a lens with more "character" for portraits. Aberrations and/ or mid -field dip can offer that. I have no doubt if I tried the Leica R Summilux 35 1.4, I would probably love it for portraits. The bokeh of the RX1 Sonnar is what makes it a terrific portrait lens to me.



Dec 07, 2013 at 08:13 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


CY 35/1.4 is great for portraits with 3d with its veryquick transition from focus pt to out of focus. It does have busier bokeh sometimes wheras my RX1 Sonnar always has smooth bokeh with slower transition.I like c/y35 and RX1 over the ZF 35/1.4 because they don't have the veiling haze SA wide open.

Jonas, another option is to forget 35 FL and go for new 55/1.4 Otus. I just shot with a rental copy on my D800E today and it is amazing IQ. Like an old commercial went, Otus 55: you will love its IQ but you will buy it for its lens cap! Finally a zeiss lens with nikon like lens cap.
My only other lens that starts out so well wide open is my Leica 180 APO 2.8. Sorry if a little OT.



Dec 08, 2013 at 01:40 AM
waterden
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Has anyone yet tried the Pentax FA Limited 31mm f1.8?


Dec 08, 2013 at 04:08 AM
turnstyle
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Jonas B wrote:
After all this I wouldn't mind re-buying the CV35/1.2. The size/weight is of no concern at all to me. Then I may be able to focus on the images instead of the gear.


hah, after all your help with the CV35/1.2 -- but then followed by your decision to sell yours -- I would take a strange comfort if you decided to get it again! I don't own it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anybody -- but if you already have the RX1, and if the performance of the RX1 is what you want, then I would personally probably just keep the RX1.



Dec 08, 2013 at 08:45 AM
Jonas B
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


waterden wrote:
Has anyone yet tried the Pentax FA Limited 31mm f1.8?


Yes, but this far indoor test images at short distances only. It's a fine lens. Some more info at page 3 post 19.



Dec 08, 2013 at 09:03 AM
Jonas B
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


turnstyle wrote:
hah, after all your help with the CV35/1.2 -- but then followed by your decision to sell yours -- I would take a strange comfort if you decided to get it again! I don't own it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anybody -- but if you already have the RX1, and if the performance of the RX1 is what you want, then I would personally probably just keep the RX1.


A strange comfort... Heh.
I'm shilly-shally about what road to take. For now I was saved by the bell; I lost an auction for a CV35/1.2. Beats me why people would pay the same for a used copy as for a brand new... So I can think it all over once again. I'm in no hurry of selling my RX1 but I would prefer to have one camera in the bag only. I'm used to travel relatively light. We'll see.



Dec 08, 2013 at 09:08 AM
waterden
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Interesting. I've not tried this lens and only seen reviews on APS-C. However it seems very well built. I read about the unusual MF but, not having tried one, I'm not sure what is meant. Is it MF by wire (absolute turn-off for me) or just a short throw (not so good for critical focusing) or something else?

It's beginning to sound as though Zeiss should re-work their RX1 35/2 for use on the a7 if that is possible but judging by the pricing of the FE 35/2.8 they would charge for it like a wounded bull!

Jonas B wrote:
Yes, but this far indoor test images at short distances only. It's a fine lens. Some more info at page 3 post 19.




Dec 08, 2013 at 09:32 AM
Jonas B
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


waterden wrote:
Interesting. I've not tried this lens and only seen reviews on APS-C. However it seems very well built. I read about the unusual MF but, not having tried one, I'm not sure what is meant. Is it MF by wire (absolute turn-off for me) or just a short throw (not so good for critical focusing) or something else?


The throw is about 90 degrees. Critical focusing is not a problem but as I wrote in my reply to sebboh the main mechanical problem is that the focusing ring has about no damping at all; you'll have to very careful not to move it by accident when you have found focus. Pure mechanical focusing (the camera will not be aware the lens is mounted, there is no way the camera can control anything).

The lens is glass and metal, nicely made. A bit front heavy but not very bad, letters and numbers are engraved and painted, the hood is in-built and super silly, the rendering... subjective... but I would say many images are very beautiful; clear, sharp, nice bokeh. At short distances quite some coma and longitudinal CA and CA at high contrasts. Lightroom seem to handle the CA OK when set to Auto. Longer distances - I can't tell yet du to wind and snow mixed with rain back and forth here today but I don't recall any problems from the days I used Pentax cameras. My memory is shady though and I might have been looking for other things back then as well.



Dec 08, 2013 at 09:55 AM
carstenw
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?


Since you already have the RX1, and since there appear to be no automatic choices for 35mm on FF, why not complement the RX1 with a different system completely. You have complete freedom. You could add an X-E2 with the 14 and 56, or an E-M1 with 12 and 45, or whatever you like.


Dec 08, 2013 at 10:12 AM
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