Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1 2

4 … 15 16 end

Archive 2013 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

I wrote:
Well, that is what call funky bokeh. There are those bright outer lines around the highlights causing a nervous look. A case for local blurring.

Makten replied:
If you call that funky, I think you have no choice but keeping the RX1. To me, the bokeh in that shot is very smooth.

You are right, I shouldn't call that funky. But it is not smooth, and absolutely not very smooth. Very smooth bokeh in that case wouldn't show the bright outlines in the upper third of the image.

I wrote:
If your Ultron 40/2 does the image above stopped down to f/2.8 I again have to wonder what the M Rokkor 40/2 would do at f/2.8. I'm still a bit interested in that lens which, following this line, may be an even better companion to the Distagon 35/1.4, no?

Makten replied:
The Rokkor/Summicron-C is totally overhyped. It's a very nice lens, but mostly because of its smallness. Bokeh isn't better than the average 35/2. I lent my Nikkor 55/1.2 with adapter to a friend in exchange for the Voigtländer 40/1.4, so I can't post examples now. But I can try to make some sort of comparison next week between the C and Ultron.

What I can say though, from experience with both lenses, is that the Ultron kills the C wide open. It's better in every way.

I can't imagine the Rokkor (or Summicron) 40/2 have smooth bokeh, or anything better than average. I came to think about the Rokkor/Summicron 40/2 as we discussed it earlier and seeing your image above was taken at f/2.8 I wondered if the small RF lens couldn't have done that for you. I don't think I need a direct comparison, I take your word for it (about the Rokkor/Summicron wide open).

Dec 07, 2013 at 03:45 PM

wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Makten wrote:
Me too!

From what I've seen, it gives a very nice "Sonnarish" bokeh (like the ZM 50/1.5) in the middle, but harshens up towards the corners.

How do you like the Nokton? The images you posted initially were very nice.

Thanks! So far it is a solid keeper but as you know the weather and light here is "challenging" and I have so many lenses to try out so I am fragmented in my A7 usage, huh

What I like:
- Close object separation and the colors. I see what I liked from NEX shots with that lens, just bigger and better.
- From 5.6-8 full frame sharpness is excellent. I dont do much landscaping but sometimes...
- Build and feel. Awesome.

What I need to know more about:
- Mid distance subject sharpness at 1.2-2 and corresponding subject isolation. Like a full person or car rather than a head.

Here are super sharp collegues (yes, they're indeed clever too :-). Below the mid distance I look for but fully suffice like this.

A7 Voigtländer 35/1.2 II

Dec 07, 2013 at 03:51 PM

wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

BTW Martin. I dont fancy you looking for a Contax G 35 in this area, you could very well pick up a copy before I get the time to react

Dec 07, 2013 at 03:59 PM

michaelwatkins
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Tim Ashley recommends the FE 35 but once you read all the details and see the examples of random issues, it's easy to come to the opposite conclusion:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2013/12/sony-fe-35mm-f2-8-za-on-the-a7r-the-bisto-lens

Whether the FE35/2.8 works for someone or not will probably depend greatly on what they shoot, and how the lens is used. Tim's article is helpful in the latter.

The Dear Susan's blog has been updated with a first looks - since he sold off his D800 and all his ZF.2 lenses, he's shooting the FE35 exclusively. Maybe skip the text and have a look at the images if wondering about the lens:

http://dearsusans.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/sony-a7r-first-impressions-the-magnificent-seven/

Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 04:08 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2013 at 04:07 PM

ebrandon
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

There's no shortage of interesting 35mm lenses for the A7(r).

I got my FE35 yesterday and I'm eager to try the following against it:
Canon FD 35mm f2 (concave radioactive front element)
Canon EF 35mm f1.4L
CY Zeiss 35mm f1.4
CY Zeiss 35mm f2.8
Contax G Zeiss 35mm f2
Pentax 31mm f1.8 limited

and here is a sample from last night from the one I expect to be the "best" at the end of the day ... the Sigma 35mm f1.4

http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-s8pVxNS/0/X2/sigma%20on%20a7r-01181-X2.jpg

full size here http://smu.gs/1chAHfO

Dec 07, 2013 at 04:08 PM

michaelwatkins
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Jonas B wrote:
* which handles flare well

What you say? Should I just ditch the A7 and stick to the RX1?

If you only shoot 35mm... maybe that's the ticket.

I saw the Sigma 35/1.4DG referenced as an alternative but it would defeat the purpose of the camera. You might as well pop for a D800 to hold the lens - it weighs 2 freakin' pounds. It does meet almost all your other criteria though; it even deals with flare in an artistic way, but whether you like it depends on whether you prefer a more Zeiss like T* retention of contrast or the less contrasty Sigma output.

Personally I don't thing the combo is practical on this camera, certainly not for me, but eBrandon is going to contradict me above!

I liked my Sigma 35/1.4 but would not have sold my D800 only to slap this 23+ ounce lens on the A7r. I'm balancing portability and IQ off and the Siggy, nice as it is, holds the scale down too far in one direction.

Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 04:25 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2013 at 04:19 PM

Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Ah, the Sigma also.
I was thinking about it a little but, at least initially, rejected it as it is close to 700 grams plus a Sony adapter. Interesting lens though!

EDIT: I see Michael replied while I was typing. Same thoughts. I think I would use a 35-40mm lens about 80% of the time. Then I would use a 24 and 50-60mm macro for the rest of the images. It would be nice if that could be done with just one camera. The 35 obviously has to be top class and versatile (relative to my personal take on it). Yes, the RX1 is wonderful - I just hope somebody can direct me to a suitable 35mm lens.

For now the Contax Distagon MM 35/1.4, the CV35/1.2 and the Rokkor MD 35/1.8 are the hot candidates.
I have dismissed all other CV lenses (tried or owned them all from 35-40mm except for the slower Skopar), all Leica lenses, the other Zeiss lenses, the SMC-P FA31/1.8 Ltd and some more.

Dec 07, 2013 at 04:22 PM

philip_pj
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

I don't believe so, on criteria 2-3-6-8.

Few 35s are capable of both that effervescent sharpness for landscapes and fine portraiture in close ups, let alone macro. Nothing in the FL does bokeh like the RX1, it looks like it came off a much longer lens with a very flat field. We will see more such corner-corner lenses from Zeiss this next year, in fact the first gets here soon, the FE 55/1/8.

And the uncorrected FL of the RX1 is more like 32mm. Anything 'close' will probably weigh more than the whole camera. There plenty of excellent 35mm lenses out there, but most are one trick ponies. Someone might try a CY 35/1.4 on an a7r, I have yet to see any such images. Maybe 500 grams is a good weight target. The bigger sensor might make up for lower MTF.

I read a post by a camera flipper last week who said the RX1 price fell away several hundred dollars just before the a7/a7r release - then went right back up above $2000 after the release. He cleaned up from his two copies.

Dec 07, 2013 at 04:53 PM

michaelwatkins
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Phillip, I'm looking to the FE55/1.8 to satisfy my bokeh needs where the FE35 isn't fast enough to do the job on its own. The faster lens and longer focal length will do the job even if field of view and available perspectives may need to change, it's a cross I think I can bear.

Jonas, good luck in your hunt. I settled on the Sigma for my D800 and was generally happy with it but not completely so. I'd added AF to my list of must-haves otherwise might have ended up with a ZF lens. I don't think there's anything quite like the RX1 lens, even it it too is made more tasty with a judicious spoonful of behind-the-lens Sony firmware Bisto.

Side note, the FE35 is the first nice Sony AF lens I've used and I'm liking the Direct Manual Focus implementation. When the rear AF/MF button is defined as a MF toggle I can switch from AF to MF and back painlessly, and the well-damped feel of the FE35 works as well as nice manual focus lenses and dare I say it, feels better than many so-so manual focus lenses I've used (lookin' at you, CV 75/2.5!). No slop, no play, smooth, accurate. A delight... and one I wasn't expecting.

Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 05:22 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:19 PM

douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

I've shot a ton of 35mm lenses on both NEX and the M9 over the last few years, and you're really not going to find anything as sharp as the RX1 corner to corner at f2 that isn't relatively large.

The Contax G 35, as well as the 35 Summicron IV, while having interesting qualities, are not nearly as sharp corner to corner in the first few stops of the aperture range, and the both have pretty funky bokeh wide open (the Summicron IV's King of Bokeh title came from shooting at f5.6'ish.) Even the newer 35 Summicron ASPH, doesn't keep up corner to corner, and I'm not sure how it works on the A7.

The 40 Ultron that Makten mentioned might be an interesting thing to try. I've never used that one, and, despite needing an SLR adapter, it isn't too huge.

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:20 PM

Makten
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

wfrank wrote:
BTW Martin. I dont fancy you looking for a Contax G 35 in this area, you could very well pick up a copy before I get the time to react

Bwahahaha!

They will be all yours. I'm looking for OM 35/2 and 40/2 for the moment.

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:22 PM

wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

If you think the Sigma is good I would check out the Samyang 35/1.4. As large. I have the CY 35/1.4 nowadays so I wont look back but for creamy bokeh the Samyang is much more than value for money.

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:32 PM

Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

philip_pj wrote:
I don't believe so, on criteria 2-3-6-8.
(...)
And the uncorrected FL of the RX1 is more like 32mm. Anything 'close' will probably weigh more than the whole camera. There plenty of excellent 35mm lenses out there, but most are one trick ponies. Someone might try a CY 35/1.4 on an a7r, I have yet to see any such images.(...)

Yes, perhaps I'm looking for too much. If I hadn't bought the darn RX1 I would never know...

I compared the FA31/1.8 to the RX1 and the RX1 indeed has about the same AOW as the FA31 (which by Pentaxians is known to be a bit longer than 31mm - how strange that ever is).

Time will tell. For now I plan to keep the RX1 but I'm undecided what to do about the 35mm FL on the A7.

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:43 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

nope. there is nothing that can match the rx1 lens at 35mm in your categories, particularly knowing how picky you are about the fine lenses you have owned. the lens that i think would probably be closest (and i believe you owned?) is the pentax 31/1.8 limited, but i don't have any personal experience with it. here's my list of the other candidates and why you won't like them generally from best to worst (most of these i've shot with myself, some i've just played with the files):

1) samyang 35/1.4 – it's giant with pretty mediocre build and bokeh isn't as good as the rx1
2) leica m summilux 35/1.4 FLE – crappy bokeh
3) sigma 35/1.4 – to big and the bokeh is a bit too jittery
4) ZE 35/1.4 – way too big and not sharp enough for you at the corners at large aperture (probably to much SA for your taste too)
5) ZE 35/2 – not quite as good as the rx1 in every way except in your face contrast/pop
6) c/y 35/1.4 – weak corners at large aperture, funky bokeh near corners (better bokeh than the rx1 in the center though)
7) nikkor 35/1.4 G – like the sigma but not as sharp (bit better bokeh though)
8) canon 35/2 IS – big slightly weaker than the rx1 across the board
9) canon 35/1.4 L – like the nikon but not as sharp
10) nikkor 35/2 AF-D – weak corners, crappy build
11) contax g 35/2 planar – terrible wide open bokeh, weak corners
12) leica m 35/2 summicron IV – terrible wide open bokeh, weak corners (performance of earlier summicrons remains to be seen, but you wouldn't like their classic look anyway i think)
13) leica m 35/1.4 summilux pre-asph – too glowy at f/2 weak corners at large aperture
14) zm 35/2 biogon – worst wide open bokeh ever, corner smearing at large apertures on the a7
15) rokkor MC HH 35/1.8 – weak corners, SA, i don't think you really like rokkor style bokeh?
16) nikkor 35/1.4 AIS – weak corners and terrible bokeh at large aperture
17) leica m summicron 35/2 asph – corners smearing, midzone dip
18) canon 35/2 ltm – weak corners, SA, funky bokeh
19) nikkor s 35/1.8 – weak corners, contrast, funky bokeh wide open
20) canon 35/1.5 – waaay to much character for you and all the previously mentioned aberrations

unknown – konica m 35/2, OM 35/2, various versions of pentax 35/2?

edit: oops totally forgot the voigtlanders!

6.5) cv 35/1.2 – not sharp enough in the corners at large apertures, funky bokeh
8.5) FE 35/2.8 – too slow! weakish bokeh
13.5) cv 35/1.4 – funky bokeh, weak corners, too much SA
17.25) leica m 35/2.5 summarit – corner smearing, too slow
17.5) zm 35/2.8 – too slow! corner smearing
17.75) cv 35/2.5 – weak corner/smearing? (maybe it's actually good on this sensor?

), to slow

Edited on Dec 07, 2013 at 06:12 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:48 PM

Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

wfrank wrote:
If you think the Sigma is good I would check out the Samyang 35/1.4. As large. I have the CY 35/1.4 nowadays so I wont look back but for creamy bokeh the Samyang is much more than value for money.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5067/5891780611_1f1ed6c07c_o.jpg

That looks good Wilhelm. You have stuff in the background at two different distances in that portrait. What do you think a CV35/1.2 image at the same situation would look like? As I recall the lens it could have done the same, maybe not as "sharp" but I'm not sure as I have used it on cropped cameras with higher pixel density only.

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:49 PM

michaelwatkins
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh, how about slotting the FE35/2.8 into your list? Any other slower 35's (ZM C Biogon 35/2.8?) to put in ?

Dec 07, 2013 at 05:59 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

michaelwatkins wrote:
sebboh, how about slotting the FE35/2.8 into your list? Any other slower 35's (ZM C Biogon 35/2.8?) to put in ?

first a note: the ordering is by how much i think jonas would like them on an a7(r), not how much i like them (and not on performance on other cameras like say an m9). i would rank the 35 lux pre-asph much higher, but i know jonas prefers a more perfect look.

i skipped all the f/2.8 lenses because i don't know them as well and he said that was too slow.

seems like the FE 35/2.8 should be ranked above the zm 35/2.8 on the A7(r). no idea how the zm 35/2.8, leica m 35/2.5 summarit, and cv 35/2.5 compare on these new sensors.

Dec 07, 2013 at 06:05 PM

galenapass
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
The FE 35 native lens seems to be a lens that people like to "legitimize" due to it's supposed lower price (I don't find it that inexpensive myself given it's speed) and size/ system constraints of the A7's.

At longer distances, even on the 36MP A7r, the FE 35 seems to under-perform the 24MP RX1. Herb has a side by side comparison in his photostream which shows this here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/leicasonyzeiss/11104863796/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/leicasonyzeiss/11104913096/in/photostream/

found via this thread he started:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1257407/0

Tim Ashley recommends the FE 35 but once you read all the details and see the examples of random issues, it's easy to come to the...Show more →

Thanks, good information!

Dec 07, 2013 at 06:27 PM

Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
nope. there is nothing that can match the rx1 lens at 35mm in your categories, particularly knowing how picky you are about the fine lenses you have owned. the lens that i think would probably be closest (and i believe you owned?) is the pentax 31/1.8 limited, but i don't have any personal experience with it. here's my list of the other candidates and why you won't like them generally from best to worst (most of these i've shot with myself, some i've just played with the files):

1) samyang 35/1.4 – it's giant with pretty mediocre build and bokeh isn't...Show more →

That is quite a list sebboh and I would like to thank you for the time and effort you have put into your reply.

At position 15) you have a Rokkor MC HH 35/1.8. I don't know a lot about the Rokkor lenses... the colours are nice, I sometimes like the rendering, sometimes not. I have been looking for images taken with the MD 35/1.8. I don't know how similar that version is to the MC HH version but IIRC they are pretty different. Do you have any experience from the MD version?

I don't think I am really that super picky. Or maybe I am and then I'm doomed as I ask for something not existing until we get a 35mm Otus, lol. For example, I don't need, or demand rather, sharp corners at large openings. But I say it again, the RX1 has spoiled me with a lens doing about everything right.

Yes, I have an FA31/1.8. In many ways a great lens. The build quality is fine but one of the main problems is that it isn't made for manual focusing. Pentax tried to compensate for their slow AF by giving the FA31 a short throw and nearly no dampening. As many Pentax lenses the bokeh is a mixed. Earlier it was very hard to predict as it changes with the shooting/background distances a lot, very often typical Petax green bright outlines. Today it's easier to check thanks to our viewfinders. Quite some coma which can be disturbing at nights. A lot of axial CA. Sharp or very sharp at all shooting distances, an overall nice rendering. Maybe I shouldn't dismiss it all together. The focal length is around 32-33mm and it suits me fine.

I have owned the Zuiko OM35/2.0 but I recall it as a soft lens. I'm not sure about that judgement any more. Maybe the FF 24MP sensor suits it better?

It's clear to me that I have to give my demands and priorities another thought.

OT: I went out in the stormy weather yesterday trying to get some images with the Olympus Pen F 60/1.5. It covers the sensor but the quality from say half way out to the borders and to the corners is very bad. There is also a lot of distortion. The center part can be very sharp. I also brought the Elmarit-R 60/2.8 Macro for some comparisons and the Pen images weren't close to anything from the real FF Leica lens. The Pen is for cropped sensors, just as it was designed to be.

Thanks again,

Jonas

Dec 07, 2013 at 06:27 PM

wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Jonas B wrote:
That looks good Wilhelm. You have stuff in the background at two different distances in that portrait. What do you think a CV35/1.2 image at the same situation would look like? As I recall the lens it could have done the same, maybe not as "sharp" but I'm not sure as I have used it on cropped cameras with higher pixel density only.

Honestly I dont know. But I bet it would do very good for a shot like that. I dont have fidelity anywhere close to eg sebboh and some others that make subjective lists like what's in this thread. I like contrast and character in the bokeh, but not stressful ones which I see every now and then from some lenses I dont like. I am fully able to see CA and some other optical deficiencies but think they're vastly overly exaggerated here at FM. The image perspective is often lost.

To me the RX1 bokeh is very nice, sharpness seem excellent but in all it's nowhere close to a holy grail of 35's. That is just ridiculous compared to the options made available via a camera such as the A7/r.

The link you posted with the G 35 image shows a very nice and strong bokeh character which is exactly what I like (though focus was moronicly executed). But you think differently which is a strong indication that many of these things are very subjective :-)

Dec 07, 2013 at 06:35 PM

1 2 3 4 … 15 16 end
FM Forums \| Sony Forum \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 … 15 16 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.