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Archive 2013 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

tzhang4284
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p.15 #1 · p.15 #1 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Fred Miranda wrote:
If you mainly care about center and mid-frame, the Loxia 35/2 is superb. Its Achilles heel is the high astigmatism towards the edges of the frame.
It only gets to very good levels at f/11 but it's still not excellent. I've tested many copies of this lens.

The RX1RII is substantially better towards the corners at all apertures but especially from f/2.8 until f/8. From my own tests, the resolution difference is not small as you described. (Also tested several copies and posted many samples on the board)

Regarding the ZM 35/1.4 with PCX 5m lens: You are not correct about increase...Show more →

Was thinking about the Voightlander 35mm f1.7 + uncoated 5M Eksma which does seem to flare so my mistake on that one.

Nevertheless, I think my comment stands that there is a strong degree of antipathy towards the Loxia 35 that doesn't seem supported by the data. It certainly has its weaknesses but under real world conditions, I don't think anyone is thinking the shot is ruined because the RX1R II or a ZM 35mm f1.4 + PCX has slightly sharper corners.

I considered the voightlander 35mm + PCX to replace the Loxia 35 after reading the mod threads but after reviewing the comparison here, i'm happy with my Loxia performance relative to the modified alternatives. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/35mm-comparison-voigtlander-zeiss-leica/

Apr 29, 2017 at 03:06 AM

Makten
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p.15 #2 · p.15 #2 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

The Loxia and CV 35/1.2 are sort of opposites when it comes to rendering. Loxia is better at distance, both sharpness and bokeh, and the CV is the other way around. For that reason I very much disliked the CV since it gives a horrible bokeh at a few meters distance. Close up it's wonderful though. Especially stopped down to f/2.

And that's why I seem to be one of the few that prefer the Loxia over other lenses. I simply don't shoot wide open at closer distance than ~2-3 meters.

Here's the CV 35/1.2 @ f/2:

Martin Agfors by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

And some of the seldom seen magic of the Loxia at f/4. The CV bokeh would be absolutely terrible here:

Loxia bokeh by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

So, horses for courses. Well stopped down at infinity, they're both nice though.

Apr 29, 2017 at 08:13 AM

AdaptedLenses
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p.15 #3 · p.15 #3 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Have a look for comparisons between the Ultron and Nokton 35's. Lenses are: Nokton 35/1.2 V1, Ultron 35/1.7 VM (LTM is awful - forget about it), ZF 35/2, C/Y Distagon 35/1.4, C/Y 35-70 and Canon FD SSC 35/2

Centers by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Midframes by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Corners by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

You can download 1:1 from flicker, but they're large files.

Edited on Apr 29, 2017 at 09:00 AM · View previous versions

Apr 29, 2017 at 08:46 AM

AdaptedLenses
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p.15 #4 · p.15 #4 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Never got around to these midframe and corner crops, but some central crops from a few others including the Loxia.

Center f2 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Center f2.8 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Center f4 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Center f5.6 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Center f8 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Center f11 by Matt Parvin, on Flickr

Apr 29, 2017 at 08:49 AM

sebboh
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p.15 #5 · p.15 #5 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

tzhang4284 wrote:
ZM + M240: With respect to your comment about the ZM and M240 vs the Loxia 35 + Sony A7R II, if you read the reviews of the ZM, many of the comments referred to soft corners for that lens as well. I think this is inherent in the biogon design - i don't think Zeiss made it worse - it's just a design limitation. This is also an apple vs oranges comparison without factoring in the substantially higher resolution of the Sony sensor vs. the Leica M240 sensor. I'm sure if Leica were to ever create a 42mp sensor...Show more →

yes, there are soft corners on the zm 35/2, but the zm 35/2 still performs better on m240 compared to the equal megapixel a7/a7ii (or on a converted a7rii for that matter). the zeiss mtfs also clearly show how the zm 35/2 is superior when both are at infinity under optical conditions.

tzhang4284 wrote:
Was thinking about the Voightlander 35mm f1.7 + uncoated 5M Eksma which does seem to flare so my mistake on that one.

Nevertheless, I think my comment stands that there is a strong degree of antipathy towards the Loxia 35 that doesn't seem supported by the data. It certainly has its weaknesses but under real world conditions, I don't think anyone is thinking the shot is ruined because the RX1R II or a ZM 35mm f1.4 + PCX has slightly sharper corners.

I considered the voightlander 35mm + PCX to replace the Loxia 35 after reading the mod threads but...Show more →

no, the loxia isn't ruining any shots with weak corners. i don't think any lens ever ruined a shot with weak corners, corners don't make the shot. that said, the difference in the corners at say f/5.6 and bigger between the loxia and rx1 or zm 35/1.4 is not small (shooting landscape with the lenses rather than looking at charts). the antipathy towards the loxia 35 is mostly due to the price performance ratio, the fact that zeiss released a lens that was more expensive than the zm 35/2, based on it's design, and not as good a performer according to their own charts was bound to annoy people. if it were priced $200-$300 cheaper i suspect there would be a lot less complaining. my personal complaint is that they just released a warmed over version of a lens that wasn't that popular to begin with. i never liked the zm 35/2 much (largely due it's drawing style/performance at large aperture) and many leica people had complaints about it. whether it's the best tool for you is entirely up to your needs, but this thread is about finding a lens like the rx1 for the a7. the loxia is not at all like the rx1, which has beautiful smooth bokeh at all apertures and distance and can take landscapes at f/2 that are great even for large prints. for my personal use on an a7*, i would choose the voigtlander 35/1.7 (i would choose the leica asph pre-FLE if price didn't matter) because i like it's draw much better for environmental portrait type shooting (note: i have shot with all the lenses in that comparison).

Apr 29, 2017 at 11:06 AM

JimBuchanan
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p.15 #6 · p.15 #6 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
nope.

i could make a mount for it, but it would require removing the e-mount from the a7 negating whole interchangeable lens aspect. nobody knows if the lens would interrupt the a7* shutter either. could work in silent shutter mode...

Another problem with adapting the Sonnar to E mount is the "lens register" of the RX1. Its an arbitrary number being a unique camera, while the E mount is set. And, that last element is so wide that I'm sure it will hit the a7 electrical contacts and inner housing.

Apr 29, 2017 at 01:12 PM

tzhang4284
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p.15 #7 · p.15 #7 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
no, the loxia isn't ruining any shots with weak corners. i don't think any lens ever ruined a shot with weak corners, corners don't make the shot. that said, the difference in the corners at say f/5.6 and bigger between the loxia and rx1 or zm 35/1.4 is not small (shooting landscape with the lenses rather than looking at charts). the antipathy towards the loxia 35 is mostly due to the price performance ratio, the fact that zeiss released a lens that was more expensive than the zm 35/2, based on it's design, and not as good a performer according...Show more →

I think we can agree to disagree but I still think the differences aren't as great as you're making it out to be. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/35mm-comparison-voigtlander-zeiss-leica/ I looked at this comparison again and i don't see a world of difference between the Loxia 35 and the ZM 35mm f1.4 with corrective optics on the edges.

On price to performance, I think the $200 to $300 difference between the ZM and L35 is a drop in the bucket. If you have a hard time digesting that, then neither lenses should be on your list. Similarly, the RX1R II is a much worse price to performance ratio if you already own the A7R II and all you really need is a lens.

On bokeh, this is always a subjective point. I personally don't have any issues with the L35 bokeh but if you hate it, you hate it. Can't argue against something so subjective - I would note that Zeiss has historically released quite a few lenses with harsher bokeh like the contax g 90 so it is a design choice too.

I think the 35mm f2.8 and Loxia 35 both make great alternatives to the RX1R II if you're not focused on edge cases - e.g. landscapes at 35mm f2 - even then the rx1r ii isn't sharp across the frame either - there's real softness there too on the edges. If you want to tinker, there's a lot of other options like your voightlander 35mm with correct optics but I find the usability hit with adapters, corrective lenses and modifications to be a little too much for me for any IQ gains.

Apr 29, 2017 at 02:24 PM

sebboh
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p.15 #8 · p.15 #8 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

tzhang4284 wrote:
I think we can agree to disagree but I still think the differences aren't as great as you're making it out to be. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/35mm-comparison-voigtlander-zeiss-leica/ I looked at this comparison again and i don't see a world of difference between the Loxia 35 and the ZM 35mm f1.4 with corrective optics on the edges.

to my eye both the zm and cv look much better in the midzone in that test. i'm also a little concerned bastian's zm 35/1.4 might not be fully up to spec – it doesn't seem to look as good as the one i used (admittedly on an a7 and a7 UT) or the samples fred posted in his comparisons.

tzhang4284 wrote:
On price to performance, I think the $200 to $300 difference between the ZM and L35 is a drop in the bucket. If you have a hard time digesting that, then neither lenses should be on your list. Similarly, the RX1R II is a much worse price to performance ratio if you already own the A7R II and all you really need is a lens.

neither lens is on my list. as i said, i don't like the way they draw and prefer the cheaper cv.

tzhang4284 wrote:
On bokeh, this is always a subjective point. I personally don't have any issues with the L35 bokeh but if you hate it, you hate it. Can't argue against something so subjective - I would note that Zeiss has historically released quite a few lenses with harsher bokeh like the contax g 90 so it is a design choice too.

I think the 35mm f2.8 and Loxia 35 both make great alternatives to the RX1R II if you're not focused on edge cases - e.g. landscapes at 35mm f2 - even then the rx1r ii isn't sharp across the frame either...Show more →

the FE 35/2.8 and loxia 35/2 are both solid lenses that are very compact if not quite as good as the rx1 lens. none of them makes a good replacement for the rx1 imo because the differences in look are quite glaring if you shoot people at large aperture (this represents ~70% of my use for a 35mm lens). i was hoping i could sell my rx1 and replace it with a zm 35/1.4 or cv 35/1.7, which are both better for environmental portraits compared to the FE 35/2.8 and loxia 35/2 imo. having spent a fair bit of time shooting them on both a stock and UT a7 i decided i preferred the rx1 and will stick with it.

Apr 29, 2017 at 05:47 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.15 #9 · p.15 #9 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Apr 29, 2017 at 08:53 PM

tzhang4284
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p.15 #10 · p.15 #10 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Thanks Fred. What does the comparison look like at f8? I think all the Loxia lenses except for possibly the Loxia 21 perform best at f8, which is what I tend to use for landscapes with my Loxia lenses.

I would also consider buying a Loxia 35 f1.4 even if it were simply the existing 35mm f1.4 with some corrective optics. However, it's very understandable that they did not lead with this lens for market validation. I'm going to guess that this lens will cost $2600 given that Zeiss is pricing the Loxia versions above their ZM equivalents. Don't think there were that many people willing to spend $2600 on a manual focus 35m f1.4 lens at the dawn of the Sony FE system.

Apr 29, 2017 at 11:32 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.15 #11 · p.15 #11 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

tzhang4284 wrote:
Thanks Fred. What does the comparison look like at f8? I think all the Loxia lenses except for possibly the Loxia 21 perform best at f8, which is what I tend to use for landscapes with my Loxia lenses.

I would also consider buying a Loxia 35 f1.4 even if it were simply the existing 35mm f1.4 with some corrective optics. However, it's very understandable that they did not lead with this lens for market validation. I'm going to guess that this lens will cost $2600 given that Zeiss is pricing the Loxia versions above their ZM equivalents. Don't think...Show more →

At f/8, it does better than at f/5.6 but still not in the same level as the other lenses mentioned on this thread. The Loxia 35/2 does better at f/11 for the edges of the frame. (Just like many legacy lenses)

Regarding all other Loxia lenses doing best at f/8, that's not my experience. My Loxia 50/2 looks perfect at f/6.3 and the Loxia 85/2.4 at f/5. The Loxia 21/2.8 is sharp to the corners at f/2.8 but its moderate field curvature forces me to shoot at f/4 or smaller.

f/8 is diffraction territory for all Loxia lenses including the Loxia 35/2 in the center area.

Apr 30, 2017 at 12:56 AM

Nick Dakota
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p.15 #12 · p.15 #12 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
the FE 35/2.8 and loxia 35/2 are both solid lenses that are very compact if not quite as good as the rx1 lens. none of them makes a good replacement for the rx1 imo because the differences in look are quite glaring if you shoot people at large aperture (this represents ~70% of my use for a 35mm lens). i was hoping i could sell my rx1 and replace it with a zm 35/1.4 or cv 35/1.7, which are both better for environmental portraits compared to the FE 35/2.8 and loxia 35/2 imo. having spent a fair bit of time...Show more →

This is the truth. The RX1 shines at wide aperture portraits. I haven't been able to replace the look and feel that this lens produces. I had the same feeling a long time ago with the original 5D w/35L. Every sensor/lens combo has its sweet spot. If looking for an alternative at 35mm to shoot people that exceeds the RX1, one will be disappointed and always come back. I have...3 times lol.

Apr 30, 2017 at 01:58 AM

bushwacker
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p.15 #13 · p.15 #13 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

one more question... on RX1 how good is the lens when shooting close range say 4 to 6 feet no noticeable distortion? I meant for portrait shots...

Apr 30, 2017 at 09:36 AM

sebboh
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p.15 #14 · p.15 #14 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

bushwacker wrote:
one more question... on RX1 how good is the lens when shooting close range say 4 to 6 feet no noticeable distortion? I meant for portrait shots...

there is noticeable barrel distortion shooting a grid, i usually don't correct it for people shooting because it actually avoids some of feature stretching of things near the corners that is inherent in a 35mm rectilinear lens. corrections can be applied in camera or checking the box in LR if you want.

Apr 30, 2017 at 11:05 AM

bushwacker
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p.15 #15 · p.15 #15 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
there is noticeable barrel distortion shooting a grid, i usually don't correct it for people shooting because it actually avoids some of feature stretching of things near the corners that is inherent in a 35mm rectilinear lens. corrections can be applied in camera or checking the box in LR if you want.

thank u

what I am avoiding is when doing portraits the head becomes big not proportion with the body.

Apr 30, 2017 at 11:51 AM

sebboh
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p.15 #16 · p.15 #16 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

bushwacker wrote:
thank u

what I am avoiding is when doing portraits the head becomes big not proportion with the body.

that's just a matter of perspective and how close you are to the subject. the wider the lens the more likely you are to get too close and get this effect.

Apr 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.15 #17 · p.15 #17 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
that's just a matter of perspective and how close you are to the subject. the wider the lens the more likely you are to get too close and get this effect.

That's a main advantage for the RX1 because it renders smooth bokeh at mid distances to the subject where people do not look distorted.

Apr 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM

bushwacker
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p.15 #18 · p.15 #18 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

Fred Miranda wrote:
That's a main advantage for the RX1 because it renders smooth bokeh at mid distances to the subject where people do not look distorted.

Ok will try one more set from RX1.... thank you

Apr 30, 2017 at 12:46 PM

bushwacker
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p.15 #19 · p.15 #19 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

I was doing some research and found this thread... one guy discovered that the BW filter is adding or causing more distortion?

https://www.seriouscompacts.com/threads/rx1-lens-distortion.27057/page-2

anyone here got the same experience? The filter is 49mm BW NANO XS-PRO

Apr 30, 2017 at 01:46 PM

jhinkey
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p.15 #20 · p.15 #20 · Sony A7; is there an RX1 equivalent 35mm lens?

sebboh wrote:
yes, there are soft corners on the zm 35/2, but the zm 35/2 still performs better on m240 compared to the equal megapixel a7/a7ii (or on a converted a7rii for that matter). the zeiss mtfs also clearly show how the zm 35/2 is superior when both are at infinity under optical conditions.

no, the loxia isn't ruining any shots with weak corners. i don't think any lens ever ruined a shot with weak corners, corners don't make the shot. that said, the difference in the corners at say f/5.6 and bigger between the loxia and rx1 or zm 35/1.4 is not...Show more →

Try some night city shots to see the point light bat wings in the edges/borders/corners of the Lox 35/2 - you can't always stop way down to remove these. The 35/2.8 Sony has these too, but to a much much lower extent.

Apr 30, 2017 at 02:15 PM

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