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Archive 2013 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

joakim
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

rscheffler wrote:
Personally interested in the a7R. Hopefully it will play nice (enough) with M wides due to the optimized micro lenses and no AA filter. Still don't think it will beat rangefinder focusing ease. I'm curious how well Canon EF lenses will adapt to it since I have a pile of those too...

Anyone see anything about buffer depth? 4fps is OK, but hopefully it's more than a few frames and card write is fast.

Same here, I have my Leica M9 for the rangefinder experience and hopefully the A7r will be a good companion for my Leica M and Canon lenses for tripod or high ISO photography. I think I'll actaully pre-order one, it does look good.

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:09 AM

Arka
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Re: rangefinder lenses... Ming Thein observed that using a 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE on a µ4/3 camera generally resulted in sub-par imaging, largely due to the fact that the microlenses on the µ4/3 camera didn't play with M-glass as well as Leica's own FF digital RFs.

"Out of curiosity, I tried the lens on my OM-D, expecting the same outstanding level of performance as seen on the M9-P; no dice. I was sorely disappointed, and reminded of why I dislike using non-native lenses on other systems, especially those with very short back flange distances. The microlenses covering the sensor form part of the optical system, and tend to interact in strange ways with the optics of legacy lenses. Unfortunately, it was no different here: the 35 FLE showed bad smearing and lateral chromatic aberration (plus purple fringing) and wasn’t acceptable until f5.6 or thereabouts"

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/02/28/leica-351-4-summilux-m-asph-fle-review/

I'm hoping the same isn't true for using RF lenses on a FF NEX; maybe the optimized microlenses will help? I was going to pick up an RX-1 at some point, but with the A7r announcement, I think I will wait and see if one of these would make a credible option as a small FF AF digital that can also use my M and F-mount optics in a pinch.

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:22 AM

_julian_
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Gapless, offset microlenses and no AA filter on the A7R. That is wildly entertaining for M lens shooters!!

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:28 AM

Arka
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

davewolfs wrote:
Good bye Leica.

Well, another way to look at it is... if Leica lenses work well on the A7, the M-system lenses will be in greater demand than ever before.

Plus, it still isn't an RF.

Arka C.

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:32 AM

uhoh7
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

_julian_ wrote:
Gapless, offset microlenses and no AA filter on the A7R. That is wildly entertaining for M lens shooters!!

I was expecting them to pretend all that stuff didn't matter. They are certainly talking the talk.

FPS poor, AF not promising, and what sounds like the loudest shutter in history.

what the hey, I'm in

they seduced me with all that micro lens talk.

Edited on Oct 16, 2013 at 01:45 AM · View previous versions

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:44 AM

BA-photos
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

snowboarder wrote:
Anyone who had a chance did come up with a brilliant idea to put a wide rangefinder lens on this thing?
Seriously? Nobody?

I'm also surprised by this... Two reviews I checked just tried 50 Lux.

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:44 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

'it still isn't an RF'

Thank god for small mercies. Did you see the focus magnification in the short demo at SAR? No RF 'experience' indeed, just total control of focus

Have not seen a symmetric wide angle demo, shows how much the sales guys (don't) know...

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:53 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Huff's take:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/15/hands-on-1st-impressions-the-sony-a7-a7r-and-rx10/ :

'I have seen prints and crops in print from the D800E and this camera. I preferred the prints from the A7r slightly but they were close.'

Oct 16, 2013 at 01:56 AM

Arka
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

philip_pj wrote:
'it still isn't an RF'

Thank god for small mercies. Did you see the focus magnification in the short demo at SAR? No RF 'experience' indeed, just total control of focus

Have not seen a symmetric wide angle demo, shows how much the sales guys (don't) know...

To each their own. I like the RF, though I used to hate it. I used to hate driving a manual transmission, and now I love it. Personally, I like the idea of having to gain experience to do something well, even if that something is as ordinary as driving a car or focusing a camera. One nice thing about the new M (and the Sony NEX FF) is that you can use focus peaking for those situations where using it is difficult to use RF to achieve optimal focus.

Arka C.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:03 AM

balazsu
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

A nice camera, but i don't know why would i get one instead of a DSLR.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:10 AM

maljo
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

I'm interested. A hikers/backpackers landscape camera.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:13 AM

sebboh
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

balazsu wrote:
A nice camera, but i don't know why would i get one instead of a DSLR.

you don't like the size of dslrs or their lenses. also, some people prefer evfs, and finally, if you shoot canon for the sensor.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:20 AM

Arka
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

maljo wrote:
I'm interested. A hikers/backpackers landscape camera.

I would love to replace my D800s with one of these. Looks like I could put a 14-24 on it, which is all I need for my backpacking landscape work.

Keep a D800 around for retaining system benefits (AF, weather sealing, and all that), but a tiny 36MP camera that can take Nikon and Leica M-mount lenses? Amazing.

Arka C.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:22 AM

lsquare
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Sami Ruusunen wrote:
Looks great. I think this is the most important camera of this decade. Now waiting for some superfast lenses from the 3rd party manufacturers.

I agree. This is probably by far the most important innovation of this decade. Canon and Nikon needs to respond and it better not be another DSLR.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:29 AM

lsquare
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

eosfun wrote:
The camera that killed the DSLR

I agree. This is a good chance for Sony to steal market share from both Canon and Nikon. Not everyone needs the fast AF features that Canon and Nikon's DSLRs have. For those that needs it will most likely still stay with Canon and Nikon. For the landscape photographers, I could see them selling their gears to buy into Sony's new system.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:30 AM

Jabberwockt
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

I think canon and nikon can still hold on. They just need to miniaturize. Many film slr were small, I don't understand why after all these years they've still not reduce the size of dslrs.

Sony's biggest challenge is going to be the lack of lens options. Not to mention the higher cost of the lenses compared to the current crop of SLR lenses. Most rangefinder lenses are not cheap either. A full kit will probably cost a lot more than a Slr kit for now.

That said, I'm joining the bandwagon.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:38 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

The sensor gathers more light - this is a further development of the advances made in the last gen sensor family. They added lens optimisation and gapless, so more light from correctly positioned OCLs:

'Gapless, optimally positioned on-chip lenses

Sony optimized the design and positioning of every on-chip lens (OCL) covering every pixel to significantly enhance light- gathering efficiency. A gapless on-chip lens design eliminates the gaps between the micro-lenses to collect more light. Moreover, each on-chip lens is optimally positioned depending on its location to accommodate the sharper angle of light entering the periphery, which is caused by larger sensor dimensions being teamed with the E-mount’s short flange-back distance.'

And

It has a sensor better than even the D800e, not to mention accepting nearly every lens made, and is half the size and weight. That is the short answer to "why would i get one instead of a DSLR."

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:51 AM

Arka
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Jabberwockt wrote:
I think canon and nikon can still hold on. They just need to miniaturize. Many film slr were small, I don't understand why after all these years they've still not reduce the size of dslrs.

Sony's biggest challenge is going to be the lack of lens options. Not to mention the higher cost of the lenses compared to the current crop of SLR lenses. Most rangefinder lenses are not cheap either. A full kit will probably cost a lot more than a Slr kit for now.

That said, I'm joining the bandwagon.

Well, there's also the lack of an optical viewfinder. Sony has been trying to wean the photographic community off the notion that an optical VF is important, but I still think there are times and places where an optical VF is the best (or even only) solution that really works. Don't know if enough people care about that to encourage Nikon or Canon to miniaturize their dSLRs while retaining TTL OVFs.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:54 AM

eosfun
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Sony's biggest challenge is going to be the lack of lens options.

I think this is one of the biggest misconceptions about Sony and it's strategy actually. Sony adapted an open camera strategy and they seem to be more serious about it than any other manufacturer. For that reason they designed the short flange distance mount and the great adaptability to other brand lenses. Sony seems to be less interested in creating a large system like Canon and Nikon provide, rather than opening up their own NEX-now Alpha- system to third party components. In that strategy iit's more than enough profitable to have a line of fast moving lenses with a high profit margin, which means Zeiss labeled glass for the high margins and mainstream focal length and speed. Special lenses like fast glass, TS lenses, super teles etc. seem to be less interesting in this strategy. Again fortunately these cameras do take all kinds of glass from Canon, Nikon, Leica, and legacy glass from all kinds of brands. It think that's a clever strategy for a manufacturer that has it's core business for a great part in electronics, rather than optics.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:56 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

Sony is not trying to 'do' anything to the photographic community other than sell cameras to people, any more than C/N is trying to 'keep people' in OVF cameras with the notion that an optical VF is important.

There is no shortage of very good OVF and RF cameras. They lack EVF which in many times and places is the best (even only) solution that really works.

Choice is the essence of the consumer society. People weigh up pros and cons from an individual perspective and proceed accordingly.

Edited on Oct 16, 2013 at 03:13 AM · View previous versions

Oct 16, 2013 at 03:04 AM

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