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Archive 2013 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Sharona
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Having just shot my first family session I am realizing that number 1: This ain't easy, so hat's off to all of you who make this look so easy and the fabulous results you get.

I really fought with the sun/shadows in my location. The mom and I scoped it out prior to the shoot, and on that particular evening, we had a nice cloud covering the sun, so the lighting was perfect in every way. (ie, warm but no harsh shadows) Last night, the setting sun shone brightly - sans clouds - and cast shadows across the trees and grasses we planned to shoot in.

My friend wasn't feeling well to top it off. I may get brave and post a shot or two at some point, but I wonder if there is a sweet spot for aperture re: group portraits. I was shooting with my 5D3 and 70-200 MKII. I wanted creamy-ish backgrounds, but wanted my people in focus. I have to say, at f4 or so, some of the shots have one or two people somewhat soft. It's hard when I am used to the stellar work on this forum and then I look at my work! I'm also struggling with skin tones being too warm or orange-ish, and the hot spots on the sides of their faces. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh hell, I'll just attach one so you can see what I mean. All comments welcome; just note: this was a quick edit last night when I got home to show the client (my oldest friend) some of our options. And this is my first time out. I had no assistant, and was fighting the setting sun (time was a wastin') which is par for the course, I know. The other thing to mention is that I couldn't get mom and dad to pose to save my life. The kids, having graduated high school not too many years ago, had it down pretty good. But mom and dad .... if you could see how many shots were wasted because of closed eyes or someone looking not quite in to the camera..) Anyway, I'm all ears. Thanks, people.

Oct 08, 2013 at 11:28 AM

friscoron
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

With everyone in line like that, you can get away from f/4, but I usually stop down to 5.6 just to make sure. When you're dealing with sunlight like that, my suggestion is to turn them until the light no longer hits any part of their face. Then it becomes a lovely backlight that provides separation from the background, and you're not dealing with any blown highlights or hot spots on the faces.

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Thanks Ron - SO much to think about when shooting groups like this. It's hard! This is not a paid shoot or anything but I had hoped for better. All a learning experience, though. Appreciate your taking time to weigh in. It was a small area with tree shadows everywhere. I have learned to have a contingency plan and that means going back to the park on a cloudless day to observe other areas and how the light hits. This was just plain tough. The dog is 14 years old, as well, so he couldn't move really quickly, so there was no time to try getting to other areas (it's a huge, huge park). And believe me, I realize these are issues everyone faces. I have a lot to learn. Can you tell I am fairly disappointed?!

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Prettym1k3
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Depends. At f/2.8 at 200mm, I regularly get everyone in focus. But I tend to like to keep everyone on the same plane of focus. Now if I'm shooting more than one row of people, I'm at f/4, or f/5.6 every time.

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Michaelparris
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

5.6 and put more distance between your subjects and the background..Nice shot BTW. Although I personally would clone out the tree behind the young man

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Ravitej
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Hmmm. Seems the worse aspect of this shot is your take on it. It's nice! Has the client seen it? The "golden hour" sun is a nice attribute. And you pulled it off.

For groups it's good to take many shots. And then swap heads in PS. There's always one where the glum person looks OK. But that said, this one has everyone looking just fine. The dog looks great!

So, given the circumstances, you have a great shot that the client should like. And pay you for. Learn a little, collect and move on. In a nice frame and matte to complement the golden hour coloring, it will be a real winner.

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Lisa_Holloway
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

It really depends how you have your subject's posed. If they are all in a line and in the same focal plane, I've gone all the way down to F-2.0 and been fine. If they are staggered, I'd stick with at least F-4.0 or even more closed down. To keep your background blurry, make sure you have more distance between your subjects and the background. Also, you can totally pull off this kind of lighting - I use it all the time. Just have it coming onto your subject's backs so none of the harsh light is hitting their faces, just acting as a nice hair light. The lower the sun gets, the prettier this looks. It looks like you did this here, but filter the back light through something like bushes or trees. Also, don't have the sun coming directly into your lens when you shoot them unless you are going for haze....either stand in the shadow cast by one of the trees to shoot or stand off to the side slightly and shoot from an angle.

Another quick tip, instead of having the tree directly behind your subjects, try to use them as framing elements in your pics. Position them so that you have one on either side of them to frame them in and draw your eye to your subjects.

Oct 08, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Thanks to everyone for weighing in here. I feel better, but I want to keep doing this and improve! I don't think my photoshop skils are up there with swapping heads - I wish! (Although I have many books, so maybe I should try it.) This is mainly for her mother-in-law's 80th birthday, and hence it was a pretty conventionally posed outing. I do have other poses; I'll have to see what I can do - but they need to get this shipped off to Ohio in about a week and a half. I'd really love to get them out for a short re-shoot, but with the kids' college and work schedules not sure I can pull it off. Once again, humble thanks for all of your input! I am in all seriousness awed by many of the people shooters on this forum. I suppose it gets easier with time and practice but I was exhausted!

Oct 08, 2013 at 01:25 PM

Bruce Sawle
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

I think overall it's a very nice shot. A bit more subject distance from the back ground would of really helped you create more background blur. You could spend a bit more time on processing to really brighten up the family. Play around with curves in photoshop to add some pop.

Oct 09, 2013 at 09:17 AM

Sharona
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Thanks Bruce - I will try that. It needs something, I really wish I could eliminate the hot spots on their faces. I don't know what I was thinking - I shot my friend a few days prior to this and shot further away. I KNOW this, but in the moment of trying to corral everyone, escape the damn sun rays, etc, I just lost my focus. I am attaching a couple of the test shots we did to determine the location. These, too, were just very quick edits to see how the location would work, so no critique needed. As you can see, the clouds provided nice diffusion for us, and the night we did the shoot for real, we were not so blessed. Comments were made about the tree and getting them into the open more - this is exactly what I thought I'd be able to do, but was faced with all the shadows on the actual shoot. Just a true learning curve!! Thanks again, I appreciate all of the input here, I truly do.

Oct 09, 2013 at 09:32 AM

CW100
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Sharona wrote:
Thanks Bruce - I will try that. It needs something, I really wish I could eliminate the hot spots on their faces. I don't know what I was thinking - I shot my friend a few days prior to this and shot further away. I KNOW this, but in the moment of trying to corral everyone, escape the damn sun rays, etc, I just lost my focus. I am attaching a couple of the test shots we did to determine the location. These, too, were just very quick edits to see how the location would work, so no critique needed....Show more →

that group shot looked fine to me

Oct 10, 2013 at 07:09 AM

rrrgpotts
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

I think it is great, I am generally a sports shooter, soccer, and have recently been hired to do a photo shoot of a family with four kids. Just the kids,no parents, and seeing as I have never done this before I'm a tad nervous. She loves what I have done, but soccer to family stuff is two different worlds. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated. How did you choose aperture settings, poses, etc. My nemesis is going to be the aperture. Help me out, yours is great.

Oct 10, 2013 at 08:53 PM

jackhopkins
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

I would second everything Lisa said and add a couple things. 1. When there is a pet use a bird call or clicker or something to get the ears to perk up a little. It usually works but don't use it until you are absolutely ready because it may only work once or twice before the animal gets board. 2. String the position the group will be posed in before you place them. That way you will know they are parallel to the film plane and can get away with a larger aperture. By the way the clothing choice works well in the group. The white sweatshirt in the others doesn't so much.

Oct 10, 2013 at 09:17 PM

popinvasion
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

You need a little fill flash and some distance from your background otherwise it's pretty good. I also agree clone that tree out.

Oct 10, 2013 at 10:07 PM

MazeRunner
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Usually for groups I stop down to at least the # of people. If 2 people, at least f/2, if 5 people, usually f/5.6, if 8 people, f/8, down to f/11. Also, I try to line them up in a slight slight curve so they're all better in focus for whatever aperture I choose.

Generally though, I shoot wide angle for groups of people, and with a shorter focal length you get slightly more DOF so you can open a bit wider and still keep more in focus.

*Edit*

Also forgot to mention (sorry, lack of sleep) that the DOF is usually 1/3rds in front (closer to you) and 2/3rds in back of (away from you) the focus point. So if you have a two rows of people, it's better to focus on someone in the first row. Just keep that in mind when selecting your focus point also.

And good luck!

Oct 10, 2013 at 10:45 PM

Poff Photo
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

I think that was a great 1st attempt - shooting 4 + dog is a lot harder than one or two... Others have already mentioned about turning from the setting sun to avoid hot spots on their faces... What I notice is posing - Sis looks pretty great! Look at her hands - edges/feminine... Although I usually let the ladies sit and have the guy take a knee... e.g. Reverse Bro and Sis... Mom and Dad - crotches!

Turn them a little to the center to hide the crotch... Let Mom sit demure and feminine - watch her hands - and have Dad take a knee... Connection - People touch when they love/like each other... Bro/Sis = affection... Mom/Dad = uh...cold? Lastly, dogs are like little kids... Position your adults and get them "anchored" in the photo - then have them call the dog/kid into the frame... Everyone should already be looking good so all you have to do is get the dog/kid to look at you and you got it! Great suggestion about the noisemaker/clicker! For something like this, I always used a tripod and a remote shutter release... That way I could look over the camera and work with my subjects - hitting the shutter the instant everything looked good... Hope this was helpful!

Oct 11, 2013 at 05:35 AM

Sharona
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Aperture sweet spot when shooting groups?

Poff Photo wrote:
I think that was a great 1st attempt - shooting 4 + dog is a lot harder than one or two... Others have already mentioned about turning from the setting sun to avoid hot spots on their faces... What I notice is posing - Sis looks pretty great! Look at her hands - edges/feminine... Although I usually let the ladies sit and have the guy take a knee... e.g. Reverse Bro and Sis... Mom and Dad - crotches!

Turn them a little to the center to hide the crotch... Let Mom sit demure and feminine - watch her...Show more →

Thanks Poff - I was hoping no one would notice my mom's pose.

I've known her my entire life and she's always been a bit of a tomboy. The dog. I did exactly what everyone is saying here minus the clicker. I did get everyone into position but - although he doesn't look it - the sweet ol' dog is 14 years old, and not very agile or perky. I made all sorts of sounds and claps to get him to look at me to no avail. So. I was happy to just get him in the photo with the people looking reasonably OK. It is a wonderful family; the parents are just, as I said in another post pre-shoot regarding this, very humble, quiet people and not comfortable at all in front of the camera. The kids, they were fine with it, having been cheerleader/athlete in high school and very used to having photos taken. I think I have several decent options for her mother-in-laws gift, and they won't be printed very large. But I've asked her if we could do another shoot and it may be tough to get her hubby back out there. Some people are just very camera shy.

Oct 11, 2013 at 09:24 AM


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