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Archive 2013 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

bigbendv
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I'll be going on a family trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons September 1st, spending about 6 days in Yellowstone and 2 in Jackson. Everyone is age 25 and up, so there is pretty good tolerance/patience for my photographic needs

I've read through a book on the topic, and I see that the Elk might be displaying some interesting rut behavior (though I don't know if that means anything in particular as to what I need to do to capture it). I also see there are several wildfires in the park right now. Basically I'm looking to hear:
a) specific recommendations for things to do or see that might not be covered or emphasized adequately in the book. b) information particular to the week that I'll be there, either seasonally or special events, and c) any resources/sites I should be looking for to help with a and b.
d) any gear specific recommendations?
Depending what I can fit in a carry on and convince family members to carry for me, I'm planning to take:
5diii, and T2i
600mm f/4 and teleconverters (not negotiable

)
70-200 f 2.8
50mm
16-35
and maybe a 24 1.4 for night shots (though the 16-35 is pretty darn adequate I've found).
tripod
77 and 82 mm polarizers
some ND's and grads

Would I be seriously sorry if I took the ballhead and left the gimbal at home? same for a speedlight?

Thanks, and sorry for the wall of text!

Aug 17, 2013 at 04:29 PM

dgdg
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Well, I can only give a few points of advice. I have been there a few times, but not enough for location advice. Gear advice -
1. The 24 1.4 wide open has horrible coma on full frame which can kill your night sky photos. The 16-35 seems to be better. The 24 1.4 coma is fine on crop body however at the expense of more noise at the same iso. Stopping it down to 2.0 gives mild improvements. You may want to take a few test shots at home to see what you think. I'd probably leave the 24mm at home.
2. 600mm with a ballhead will require a lot of diligence to avoid it slapping forward, maybe toppling over if you take your hand off the lens without the ballhead locked/tensioned well. That being said, I am leaving soon and plan to take just the BH-55. Wish I could take the gimbal though. If someone can take it for you, do take the gimbal - it makes things so easy.
3. I think the 50mm could stay home. Use the 70-200 or 16-35mm instead. Guess it depends on your style and how much you want to lug around.
4. How are you going to carry on the 600mm? With my 400DO, I simply used a (f-stop loka with ICU) backpack as I knew it would fit under the seat if needed. The 600mm and extra gear is another beast. I broke down and bought a pelican 1510 for more options at the gate. Are your seats reserved so you have space underneath the seat in front? Are you in a tiny regional jet?

have fun! What a great place.

Edited on Aug 17, 2013 at 05:39 PM · View previous versions

Aug 17, 2013 at 05:29 PM

Jeffrey
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

These topics are always unanswerable since no one knows what your shooting style is or what your goals are. Just take all your gear and use what you need at each particular opportunity. Personally, I'd skip the flash and the gimbal unless you are dedicated to standing around for hours holding your 500mm waiting for a bird to appear. Since you're on the landscape forum, take your landscape gear.

Aug 17, 2013 at 05:37 PM

bigbendv
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I think our flight situation is a 2 layover nightmare (delta changed our details 2 or 3 times and generally just been horrific to deal with. The changes they made were terrible, and it took hours on the phone to get them changed to something reasonable.)
I have an fstop large ICU that I plan to put everything I can in. I couldn't bring myself to pay the price for the backpack, so I have an REI bag it goes in. The bag isn't officially carry-on legal as the internal frame staves are a little long, but I can pull out the ICU, which is legal, if need be. Not looking forward to the travel, but I can't own that lens and not take it!

Aug 17, 2013 at 05:48 PM

matt4626
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I have been to Yellowstone many times. If possible take a big zoom...100-400 or 200-400. The bear, bison, elk tend to move around a lot...:-) I estimate 60%+ of my awildlife shots were taken with a 100-400..the rest with a 500mm.
From landscape cover as much range as you can...16-35 and 24-105 are my favorites...FYI

Aug 17, 2013 at 06:03 PM

bflood
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Gear - you have what you need. The ball head vs gimbal issue is up to you - you know better than us whether you can get usable shots from the 600 on a ball head.

Bears - ask at a ranger station where bears have been seen recently. They'll be out feeding in preparation for the winter, but that doesn't mean they'll be feeding near a road. Applies in both parks. Also keep a sharp eye for wildlife in the space between Yellowstone and Grand Teton - got some of my better shots there.

Mammoth - the colors in the hot-water-covered minerals are amazing. Look for elk and even bears in the "village" at Mammoth. Drive north toward the Roosevelt Gate a few miles and you'll find a canyon with high rocky walls. That's the best place to see bighorn sheep, especially early in the day. Watching the little ones run along the face of the cliffs is amazing - that 600 will be very useful here.

Do a Google/Bing search for "yellowstone waterfalls" and you find a list describing them and their locations. A really good resource.

Check with the rangers about the best time in the morning to see the rainbow in the lower falls and which side of the river has the best view (changes with the seasons). Plan to use your polarizer for this one.

The steam fog on the surface of Grand Prismatic Spring makes for some great shots early in the day, but pool-side shots get washed out as the sun gets higher in the sky (midday). Between the Midway Geyser Basin and the Old Faithful complex there's a trail the goes out behind Grand Prismatic. There's no formal, maintained trail up onto the hill behind Grand Prismatic, but you can climb it without difficulty, and it offers the best vantage point for the spring short of renting a helicopter.

Looking from the Old Faithful visitor center toward Old Faithful, you'll see a hill beyond the geyser, and there's a trail that goes to the top of that hill. In the morning hours, the view from that hill not only gives you a shot of OF with the buildings in the background, but you may get a rainbow in the geyser spray from OF or one of the other geysers there.

Check with both parks' rangers on what locations may be inaccessible due to federal budget cuts. I know Grand Teton closed the road down to Schwabacher's Landing because of this, but I hear that people have been able (and willing) to walk down and back up.

Aug 17, 2013 at 06:21 PM

bigbendv
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Great heads up on the closed roads. Around here I tend to have that long with birds and critters, so I'll even hand-hold the 600 for a few seconds. I suspect I'll have more need for the tripod out west.
Thanks for the responses!

Aug 17, 2013 at 06:41 PM

ucphotog
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

We just did a similar trip about a month ago.

Personally, I shot almost exclusively with my 24-70mm lens for geysers and pools and lakes and sunrises and such. I used my 70-300mm for some wildlife shots, but I am not much of a wildlife shooter and that lens isn't really very good (at 300). I used my 21mm some where the 24 wasn't wide enough (like the Grand Prismatic Spring) and for some big sunrise shots.

Aug 17, 2013 at 06:44 PM

Genes Home
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Hi,

1. BFlood has some good points, but you definately need to give ussome additional information before we can make decent recommendations:

a. where are you staying each night?
b. what type of vehicle are you renting?
c. are you willing to do short walks at high altitude?
d. do you have any specific "must do" items?
e. what is your preferred photographic focus (animals, wolves, bears, geysers, etc.)
f. can you drag your family out an hour before dawn to drive to areas in the park whith photographic opportunities?

2. Order now (preferred) or obtains immediately upon arrival the YA trip planning info. You will find it immensely useful for targeting the limited number of things you can do in 6 days. The reason I say this is that I also have the book you reference, and it is a good general reference and guide, but since it was written the average temp in YNP has gone up by 4-6 degrees, the park has been experiencing a semi-drought for the last 5 years, and animal behavior has been affected (elk, for instance, starting the rut later and staying higher in the forests later in the fall).

https://www.yellowstoneassociation.org/shop/trip-planning?a=product-categories

3. As to your gear, here's my recommendation based on 8 trips there over th elast 10 years:

a. Leave the 50mm at home.
b. Leave the 24mm at home.
c. I wouldn't mount a 600 on a gimbal (even a BH55) on a dare. By all means haul the gimbal and your tripod. Too many people, too much going on, too easy to dump the whole rig on the ground while distracted (and bison will DEFINATELY distract you!).
d. Get a small sandbag or a Puffin Pad for use out the car window.
e. If you are taking a flash, take a Better Beamer also.
f. Definately take both bodies.
g. Yes to the NDs, Grads, and the 16-35 and 70-200 and the teleconverters.
h. Don't forget a remote release for your long distance and night work.

More when you update your trip plan re the above questions.

Gene

Aug 17, 2013 at 07:34 PM

bigbendv
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Wow, ok.
a)I forget the details, but I think we're spending a couple nights each in the mammoth area, old faithful area, and canyon area, plus Jackson.

b)We'll have 5 people, in a suburban

c) sure

d) not exactly, but we definitely are going to hit the "big ones", old faithful, grand pris., the canyon, etc.

e)I want to get the wildlife, but since (I assume) they are harder to plan, they'll probably be relegated to second fiddle to the landscapes. From the book it sounds like the plan should be to plan wildlife and steamy basin shots before 9 and after 5, and the springs during the day when the sun can get deeper into the water. I'm sure like always there isn't enough golden hour light to go around. I'd also like to get some night sky while I'm at it. I'm gonna be tired...

f)I've made my intentions clear. I think some will go with me, some will get picked up later. We did Yosemite last year, while I was still learning, and missed most of the sunrises getting ready or sleeping in the morning, and the sets eating in the evening. I was cranky.

2) Interesting (and sad) about the temperature change and resulting behavior, that's the type of info I'm looking for. What book/material do you recommend? There are some options on that page.

3)cool, thanks for the input.

Aug 17, 2013 at 09:15 PM

bigbendv
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

f, updated) I'm very much still learning.

Aug 17, 2013 at 09:25 PM

kurt765
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I spent 6 nights in Yellowstone just a couple weeks ago. I didn't read a book. I had no specific plan each day. I had a total blast on my first visit. Here's a few thoughts from my time there:

I found tripods on the boardwalk to be almost completely useless. Even if no one is nearby, the wood sometimes transmits vibrations like a musical instrument, so if I looked at live view 10x at 400mm I could see earthquakes in the camera that were coming from the boardwalk up through the tripod from people pretty far away. I did use the tripod pretty often though if people were not around (like early in the morning before busloads of people arrive)

100-400 is the longest lens I own and I was wanting more, so you're definitely good with the 600 and teleconverters.

The most interesting wildlife I saw was spotted by others and resulted in inevitable traffic jams. The first traffic jam I encountered was for a mother wolf and two pups that I could barely capture with 400mm so I was grateful for other people for spotting them.

Everywhere I went was full of interesting and amazing sights, sounds, and the glorious smell of hydrogen sulfide. From my kit, I had the 100-400 on one body at nearly all times ready for wildlife and either the 17TSE or 24-105 on my other body for everything else. When going to geyser basins I'd have the 17TSE and 24-105 mounted since there wasn't much wildlife hanging around with the crowds of people.

I saw two grizzly bears and one black bear when I was there. One big adult grizzly and a black bear far, far away in Hayden Valley. One juvenile grizzly was right on the road near West Thumb one morning. He licked the road and then scampered off into the woods. I think most wildlife is random luck. Also, I carried 1-2 cans of bear spray everywhere I went, especially since I was alone. If you don't have bear spray, I'd get some if I were you. Signs everywhere warn to hike in groups of 3 or more, carry bear spray, etc. Safety is by no means guaranteed.

I never figured out a cool place for sunset, though West Thumb proved to be a nice place for Sunrise. I shot at all hours of the day.

I can't wait to go back. Who knows when that will be, but it's such an amazing place. The hill behind Grand Prismatic is off of the Fairy Falls trail. You can't miss where people have trampled the hillside to death. It's somewhat treacherous in my experience - think hands and feet. Strap your pod to your pack.

Enjoy your time at one of the most amazing places on Earth.

Aug 17, 2013 at 10:13 PM

stanparker
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I've only been there five times, so still learning. I never take a tripod on the boardwalks, in fact only use one for waterfalls. I use my widest lens for most all landscapes, keeping my longest lens mounted on a second body and handy for sudden wildlife ops. I find it very difficult to emphasize wildlife while part of a group. To get good wildlife shots, other than the occasional unexpected animal, you must go out very early to Hayden Valley or Lamar Valley (best) or wherever the current hot spot is. Your group will not want to join you in waiting hours for a wolf to show, or a grizzly. You will see plenty of bison throughout the day, usually some elk, and occasionally a bear, wolf or coyote in your travels. For your first time there, be content to see/shoot all the geysers, springs, waterfalls, etc, etc and the occasional animal.

The wolves have spread out, you may see one or more by chance, as we once saw five wolf pups cavorting in the grass. Elk have diminished numbers due to the wolves. Moose have largely moved down to Tetons (try Moose-Wilson Road, it never fails me). I personally would spend four days in each park, but you may be committed already.

I have had good luck with sunsets along the Madison River, near the west gate. Also saw a moose there last year, first for me in YNP for some time.

Aug 17, 2013 at 10:44 PM

jbledsoe
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Since this isn't a photography trip but rather a trip with non-photographers AND not during prime wildlife seasons...

It's your first time and unless you know for sure the other four will enjoy the wildlife as much as you, I'd leave the 600 at home and take a 100-400, even if you have to rent it.

This will allow you get get all the wildlife shots you're likely to get that time a year and only missing some opportunities the 600 will afford. This makes taking your gear much easier too. When you go the next time (and you most certainly will after your first trip), you'll know to make your trip revolving around photography rather than a group site seeing event with some photography worked in.

The reason is because with that few days you'll be either missing lots due to spending too much time in one place photographing, or you'll be spending far less so you can see all the main areas. That six days in YNP are just enough to do a really nice job of seeing everything on the figure eight and up the Lamar to the top of Beartooth (which I imagine will be open that early).

First week in September is almost like going in summer, most of the wildlife will still be up high. Varies year to year, but that's pretty early for lots of wildlife. Don't get me wrong, you'll still see wildlife, but nothing like you would see a little later in Sept or in June.

When I've done family trips we usually plan areas to see in 1/2 day sections, seems to work well. If you're up north two days I'd plan a day for the Lamar and Beartooth, or at least work up to Cooke City for lunch (or early dinner if you get tied up with some good viewing/shooting). Or Lamar and Tower in the same day. Mammoth is best in the morning and if you really want to see it plan 1/2 day just there so you can walk all the features top to bottom. There might be some color in the aspens just above that and the road south towards Norris is good for wildlife early and late if you are up that way. Nothing like Lamar, but I've got some really nice griz shots up there other months of the year.

you can eat up a whole day in Canyon without trying. the pass can be good for bear and elk, but I've only been there late Sept so 1st week might be way too early.

You'll probably wish you spent lots more than 2 days in the Teton's, but it certainly will wet you appetite to go back. Given how early it is, yeah I would have to agree that 4 days in each would be better, but that's focusing more on landscapes and seeing many of the sights the first time.

when I was walking with a group I found my 24-120 was great, not the best lens but certainly covered the range really well so I would suggest something to cover like 24-105 along with your wide and long glass. you won't likely use the 24 or 50 at all unless you want to use the wide 1.4 for indoor shots of the lodges.

If you don't take the 600, then you're question is easy for tripod. Trust me, you'll want the tripod and ball for all the water/thermal features and of course night work. I used my tripod on lots of boardwalks, but yes you have to wait for everyone to leave since even one person walking will cause obvious shaking. This week you might still have tons of people so many places a tripod might just be a bad idea for that reason. Early and late seem to work well as many folks don't get out early and seems they like to go to dinner early. If you're out these times you'll have little problem working in your shots. Keep your own party in mind, if they are with, then just wait for them to walk to the next section and get your shot when the boards are quiet.

Oh remember if you're shooting thermals for lots of steam and better light than early/late, but if you want the great colors and the features not covered in steam then the hot time of day means less steam. A CPL is pretty much required for thermals, especially if you want to get all the detail down in them.

If you will be hiking even short distances outside the main tourist areas, carry bear spray, know how to use it and when, and make sure it's right there in front where you can get to it. There's lots of short hikes (1-4hrs) you all can make that you'll likely all really enjoy, but go prepared. Grebe Lake between Norris and Canyon are great for anyone, also Trout Lake at the north end of Lamar where it narrows.

Hope this helps!
Jeff

Aug 18, 2013 at 04:13 AM

bigbendv
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I don't post much here ('cause I don't feel like I know much), but I lurk often, and the amount of time people put into helping others is always impressive. Thanks!

Aug 18, 2013 at 09:46 AM

ramdisk
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

when your that Grand Prismatic take the time a climb the hill behind it the view is outstanding

hope this helps

Mormon Row barns
Take US191 north out of Jackson Hole, turn right on Antelope Flats (it’s pass the airport)
Turn right on Morman Row (if you turn left that is one of the barns) about .5 mile on your right will be The Barn. Park on your left (you’ll see where) now you need to stand on the other side of the fence, looking at the barn there will be a creek on your left that is where you need to go to get there, across the little bridge and about 10’ you’ll see a path worn out by the photographers stand there. The path parallels the fence. The idea shoot of the barn would be clouds in the windows; if you get that you have the shoot that most don’t. After this shoot go back to the other barn at the corner of Antelope Flats and Morman Row.

Next (go back to US191 turn right)

Schwabacher Landing
This can be taken after first light, 10:00am or so and is still good light.
Take US191 north out of Jackson Hole you’ll be turn left on the first road north of Glacier turnout.
(I don’t remember if this turnout is marked) Take that down to the parking lot, you will follow the path along the river all the way to the end, there will be shoots along the way but keep going until you reach the end of the path, about a ¼ of a mile, there is a bench at the end (not sure if there are benches along the).

Snake River Overlook
From Schwabacher’s turn left then you get to US191, the second turnout on your left will be Snake River. If I remember the parking lot, park to the north. You’ll see a stone wall, walk to the north until you see the view. Next climb over the wall and walk the path down to the white trees.
Your there.

Oxbow Bend
Take US191 north out of Jackson Hole until you get to the Oxbow turnout (this will be a drive)
When you get to the parking lot, park as close to the mountain view as possible. Where that parking lot ends you will see a path worn out again by photographer’s, if there not standing there when you get there, you’ll want to be in the first four spots, this will allow you to get the mountain reflections in the water that doesn’t touch the shore. You can also walk down along the river towards the mountain Moran. You see where from the first stop to your left.
This one you will have to get to very early, when I was there in Sept for fall colors we arrived at 5:300am (about 2hrs before sun rise) one photographer was already there in the first stop. My photo was taken from the second stop. With in 15mins there were about 8 photographers. In all I think there where about a hundred photographers there all along the road, it was crazy.
Get there early, you’ll have to stay about a couple hours after first light to get the sun hitting mount Moran. But that is the shoot.

Yellowstone, Grand prismatic climb the hill on the back side. From the parking lot looking at Grand prismatic you'll need to go the the small parking area to your left about 1/4 mile away and just walk the trail about 1/4 mile or so then climb, you will see the path, if you don't you'll miss it. It's a must see.

For wild life viewing you should see a lot up around Oxbow and Willow Flats the moose seam to like it over there, elk, buffalo and antelope should be everywhere and another place is Gros Ventre Rd. from Morman Rd south to US191. Right north of Jackson Hole is the elk refuge we saw a lot of elf there in the winter and the fall also moose. Heading north out of Jackson Hole you’ll see the Grand Teton National Park sign just past that there is a flat area on your right, just before the Elk refuge fence ends a big bull moose was hanging out there. The more you drive up and down US191 the more you’ll see, if there not there one day they may be there another day.
Also a thing to remember if you see a lot of cars along the road there is some wild life to photograph; you’ll under stand that when you get to GTNP or Yellowstone.

go to Google Earth and you can see all of the sights I spelled out above.
Bye the way that is how I got the GPS cords below

Tetons
The Barn 43°39'38.28"N 110°39'54.70"W
Snake River 43°45'11.56"N 110°37'27.28"W
Oxbow Bend 43°51'58.11"N 110°32'52.11"W
Schwabachers Landing 43°43'3.47"N 110°39'38.04"W
Signal Mt. 43°50'47.70"N 110°34'27.39"W
Mt. Moran 43°50'35.84"N 110°36'37.87"W

Yellowstone
Old Faithful Geyser 44°27'37.69"N 110°49'41.94"W
Grand prismatic spring 44°31'30.50"N 110°50'18.23"W
Mammoth Hot Springs 44°58'1.10"N 110°42'20.69"W
Tower Falls parking 44°53'31.27"N 110°23'13.59"W
Lower Yellowstone Falls 44°43'5.26"N 110°29'46.90"W
Upper Yellowstone Falls 44°42'44.71"N 110°30'2.04"W
Midway Geyser Basin 44°30'53.28"N 110°49'58.25"W
Morning Glory Pool 44°28'30.14"N 110°50'37.12"W

Aug 18, 2013 at 10:49 AM

bigbendv
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Thanks, ramdisk!

Aug 18, 2013 at 08:09 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

I go to Yellowstone several times a year because my daughter is at Montana State taking Architecture.

My advice is:
1) Take the 600. Take the 1.4x. Take a crop lens. Take the big tripod and wimberly. Drive early to Lamar Valley and look for wolves. Also take a 100-400. Between the 100-400 and 600/1.4/crop you have a really good chance of getting a wolf.
2) Plan on bison. They are easy to find and great to photograph. Use a monopod and non crop and 600 and shoot out the window. The best places at this time of year are likely near between old faithful and the start of the geysers on the big open fields. You will see lots of big males chasing down the girls.
3) Grizzly are hard to spot. But generally if they are around there is a crowd so you don't need to look for them. Long lens is best. But just keep driving and you are likely to see them.
4) For landscapes I like Mammoth Basin, Grand View, and Geysers. But I find that Jackson Hole is easier for landscape. So I would read up on landscape near Jackson Hole. 16-35, 24 and 70-200 will have you covered but I suspect 90% will be with 16-35 and the 24 won't come out unless you shoot at night.

Aug 18, 2013 at 08:24 PM

CW100
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

unless you're hiking I would also bring it all.
probably won't use some but you can leave gear in the motel room safe

Aug 19, 2013 at 09:30 AM

jleom
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1st time to Yellowstone recommendations?

Since I live close by I get to go often. There is some good advice in most of the above comments.

I 'd recommend looking at the different yellowstone forums and ask any questions you might have. People are really helpful in answering questions. The fires could be a real issue in the coming weeks for both areas. We were in the Tetons last weekend and there is smoke blowing in from the Idaho fires. Lamar Valley was pretty bad Saturday.

http://forums.yellowstone.net/index.php

For the Jackson / Teton area I'd recommend you read Mike Jackson's info. As a local he has some good advice.

http://www.bestofthetetons.com/

I'll be glad to answer any other questions you might have.

Leo

Aug 19, 2013 at 12:38 PM

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