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Archive 2013 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

burningheart
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p.17 #1 · p.17 #1 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Robert, do yourself a favour and test-use 500 f/4.5 and 200-400 side to side. If 200-400 still seems lighter to you, then your lens copy might have an anti-gravitron feature built in it.

As you wish master Peter.

I just tested both without camera attached.

Lifted both the 200-400 in the left hand and the 500 in the right hand. The 500 I could feel the front heaviness and it wanted to drop downwards. Repeated again switching hands the 500 in my left hand again it was front heavy. Finally I did one lens at a time in the left hand and then the right hand in all cases panning side to side.

The 500 in all 4 tests wanted to tilt down at the heavier front end. The 200-400 stayed level.

Granted if a camera was attached there would be a better balance for both lenses but in all cases I had to fight the 500 from dipping down the 200-400 I there was no attempt to dip down. The 200-400 has the better distribution of weight where as the 500 4.5 is front heavy in comparison. Note I have original foot on both lenses.

PS When shooting the 200-400 or 500 I have my left hand further up the foot for extra balance, but still found the 200-400 better balanced, but in changing the zoom with my fingers as others have mentioned it doesn't have the free play to quickly go from 400 to 200 or 200-400, I usually get about 1 inch of turn with my 2 fingers then must do it again or bring the lens down. I missed a shot at the zoo because the sandhill crane started to move quickly towards me.

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:39 PM

StillFingerz
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p.17 #2 · p.17 #2 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Jerry, in the end, it really matters not how we do things, as long as....

(1) we are having fun
(2) we get the desired result.
(3) the activity is not physically taxing where that could be avoided.

Whenever possible I will always deploy a pod, because I do not like having backaches from swinging heavy lenses.

Perhaps it's good I don't swing...those heavy white bazookas...another perk of spinal cord injury, kinda like the parking, I think

Once I get rolling more; waiting on the new help atm, I'll get the rest of my 'QuadPod' together and try out my bigger glass, I've no doubt this chair based support will help steady my shooting, even with gimbal...cross fingers!

Edited on Jun 17, 2013 at 07:25 PM · View previous versions

Jun 17, 2013 at 07:15 PM

PetKal
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p.17 #3 · p.17 #3 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Thank you, Robert, for doing that check. Although 500 f/4.5L is nose heavy, 200-400L mass is 0.6 kg more. If a 1D series camera is mounted on the lenses, perhaps the combined 500 f/4.5L + camera setup's centre of gravity would fall at the tripod mount foot, whereas with 200-400L it might actually be moved even further towards the camera, from the foot ?

As long as you are not swinging the lens/camera sideways rapidly, the inertial momentum of the lens doesn't come into play. For more-or-less stationary targets, you are left with having to support/carry 3.6 (200-400L) vs. 3.0 kg (500 f/4.5L). Even if there was a bit of a static droop force exerted on your hand by 500 f/4.5 + camera setup, and more so than in the case of 200-400L, I still feel that 200-400L ought to feel heavier in hand. Again, that is for stationary/slow target shooting.

Now, once you start swinging the lens/camera sideways quickly, then it is harder to figure out which way the comparison will go.

Edited on Jun 22, 2013 at 08:10 PM · View previous versions

Jun 17, 2013 at 07:24 PM

Doctorbird
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p.17 #4 · p.17 #4 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
There you go, now you have your own answer to the lactic acid buildup.

If your left upper arm/elbow is not resting on your ribcage while supporting the lens & shooting, the effort and resulting fatigue, and camera/lens stability, all suffer.

Clearly, if your lens support point is closer to the front of the lens, then that makes it more difficult to maintain your upper arm/elbow contact with your trunk.

My take on the matter:

The foot of the lens is placed approximately at the balance point of the lens with a 'typical' camera and maybe a TC attached, for obvious reasons. When handholding one would like to place his left hand approximately at the same balance point to free up the trigger hand to do it's thing - thus keeping the combination balanced wtth arguably the least effort. This configuration should allow for Peter's rifleman-like stance (which I also adopt).

I rotate the collar so that the foot is out of the way (upside down, in fact), so that I can comfortably cradle the lens and still use my thumb/ fingers to manipulate the focus limits, etc. on the lens. I also use the neck strap connected in this position, so, while hand holding, respite is provided by resting the lens in a combination of my neck and the crook of my arms.

A caveat is that if one needs to place the the combo on a pod the foot needs to be rotated down, in which case the strap, which is attached to the collar will get a bit twisted and tangled, but easily undone. This is a trade off that I can live with.

I'm not sure that a lower foot would work better than this. Perhaps Peter can comment.

Db

Jun 17, 2013 at 10:13 PM

PetKal
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p.17 #5 · p.17 #5 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Doctorbird wrote:
My take on the matter:

The foot of the lens is placed approximately at the balance point of the lens with a 'typical' camera and maybe a TC attached, for obvious reasons. When handholding one would like to place his left hand approximately at the same balance point to free up the trigger hand to do it's thing - thus keeping the combination balanced wtth arguably the least effort. This configuration should allow for Peter's rifleman-like stance (which I also adopt).

I rotate the collar so that the foot is out of the way (upside down, in fact), so that I...Show more →

Db, that is a well reasoned view of the issues, I'd say.
When you support the lens barrel directly (i.e., the foot is rotated out of the way), then you are having the least amount of lens "twisting" momentum upon sideways motion, which is absolutely great, particularly with large diameter lenses such as 400 II and 600 II. Now, I do not do that....instead, I rest the foot on the palm of my left hand.....that is why I run into problems with high profile feet. The main reason I do that is the comfort....my left hand just can not support the barrel directly in a reasonably comfortable manner.

Jun 17, 2013 at 10:32 PM

dehowie
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p.17 #6 · p.17 #6 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
There you go, now you have your own answer to the lactic acid buildup.

Jun 18, 2013 at 12:38 AM

Doctorbird
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p.17 #7 · p.17 #7 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Db, that is a well reasoned view of the issues, I'd say.
When you support the lens barrel directly (i.e., the foot is rotated out of the way), then you are having the least amount of lens "twisting" momentum upon sideways motion, which is absolutely great, particularly with large diameter lenses such as 400 II and 600 II. Now, I do not do that....instead, I rest the foot on the palm of my left hand.....that is why I run into problems with high profile feet. The main reason I do that is the comfort....my left hand just can not support the...Show more →

I possibly have larger hands (longer fingers) that average, though not abnormally so. Perhaps this makes a difference. I ought to try a lower foot but am hesitant to invest in something that may not work as well - and may impair my ability to work the buttons on the lens.

I should also add that the foot in the up position makes a convenient balanced grip for the lens/camera combo in the 'suitcase' position.

Jun 18, 2013 at 12:52 AM

birdsasart
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p.17 #8 · p.17 #8 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

There you go, now you have your own answer to the lactic acid buildup.

If your left upper arm/elbow is not resting on your ribcage while supporting the lens & shooting, the effort and resulting fatigue, and camera/lens stability, all suffer.

Db

Db, I fully understand that. But with big (i.e. long) lenses doing so gives a huge torque advantage to the lens. To me it is like trying to hold a log aloft by holding only onto one end.... But it does explain why I find the 2-4 easier to hand hold than even the lighter 500 II. Just for the record books, I hold the lens barrel not the foot.

Jun 18, 2013 at 05:05 AM

birdsasart
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p.17 #9 · p.17 #9 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

This image of a Sandhill Crane was created on Thursday morning past with the hand held Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM lens with Internal 1.4x Extender (with the 1.4X TC in place) at 560mm and the Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR camera. ISO 400. Evaluative metering at zero: 1/1000 sec. at f/8 in Manual mode.

Jun 18, 2013 at 05:14 AM

birdsasart
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p.17 #10 · p.17 #10 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

This is a 100% crop of the head. Folks can learn more about this image and what I had to say after my first foray with the 200-400 here.

Jun 18, 2013 at 05:17 AM

PetKal
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p.17 #11 · p.17 #11 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

dehowie wrote:
Think thats interesting as i have handheld the 500/600 and 800 for 8 years and never ever placed my elbow anywhere near my chest/trunk as it can cause back issues.
If you tuck your elbow in you curve your back/neck and load up your shoulder.
Try hand holding a 600F4 series I with that technique its not pretty for your back and shoulder.
25 years of gym training makes you use proper technique when lifting anything from a 25Kg dumbbell to a 5KG lens.
Whats comfortable for one person is not for another but i would never consider tucking in an elbow..

I guess whatever works for you, should be your clear preference. However, as you get older, you are not likely to become stronger. Then, you might have to look at different little techniques and expedients which would ease the burden on your body while maintaining the shooting effectiveness.

I also must say something which should be rather obvious. As the shot elevation increases, there comes a point where it is not feasible any longer to maintain the contact between the lens supporting upper arm and the trunk. That just can not be helped. To me those are the hardest shots to make, and the higher the elevation, the worse it gets.

Jun 18, 2013 at 06:02 AM

John_T
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p.17 #12 · p.17 #12 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Posted this before.

Something I rigged to relieve arms and shoulders, transfers the weight to the waist and easy to rotate, elevate, etc. Transforms you into a monobipod...oh, wait...

Jun 18, 2013 at 06:36 AM

PetKal
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p.17 #13 · p.17 #13 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Well done, John. That follows the old flag bearer's harness idea.

Edited on Jun 22, 2013 at 08:10 PM · View previous versions

Jun 18, 2013 at 06:42 AM

John_T
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p.17 #14 · p.17 #14 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

...that's it, make you cross-eyed too.

I call it the CodPod TM

Jun 18, 2013 at 06:51 AM

burningheart
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p.17 #15 · p.17 #15 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

1DX 560mm F5.6 ISO 100 1/640

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V8731.jpg

100% Crop

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V8731%20crop.jpg

Of course I really bought the lens for flower shooting.

1DX 219mm F4.0 ISO 100 1/1000

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V9207.jpg

100% Crop

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V9207_crop.jpg

Or was it just to shoot Flamingos

1DX 381mm F4.0 ISO 400 1/400

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V8937.jpg

100% crop

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/fred_miranda/AA9V8937_crop.jpg

Jun 18, 2013 at 10:11 AM

Doctorbird
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p.17 #16 · p.17 #16 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

birdsasart wrote:
Db, I fully understand that. But with big (i.e. long) lenses doing so gives a huge torque advantage to the lens. To me it is like trying to hold a log aloft by holding only onto one end.... But it does explain why I find the 2-4 easier to hand hold than even the lighter 500 II. Just for the record books, I hold the lens barrel not the foot.

Art,

I think the reason that the new lens feels lighter is because of its weight distribution along the barrel. If the center of gravity (cg) were centered, the way you hold your lens will place equal weight on each hand. If the cg was situated closer to the camera your left hand (the crucial hand) would assume less of the weight. I suspect that this is the case for the 200-400 because of the TC mechanism near the mount. The foot is probably appropriately situated further back too. This would be easy to check for those fortunate to have the lens, on hand so to speak.

I might add that locating the center of mass further towards the camera lessens the angular momentum/inertia of the system that's pivoting near one's body. So the new lens may not be so bad after all - with respect to agility.

Db

Jun 18, 2013 at 11:17 AM

PetKal
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p.17 #17 · p.17 #17 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

My last narrow selection keeper, shot with Ron Scheffler's 200-400L @ 560mm on 1DX.

I should probably get the lens eventually, once they clear up the preorder backlog.

Edited on Jun 22, 2013 at 08:12 PM · View previous versions

Jun 18, 2013 at 08:33 PM

big country
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p.17 #18 · p.17 #18 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

i put an order in and sunday and it shipped yesterday. i guess not all us sources are exhausted, just the big boys. i may have another one in the next week or two.

Jun 18, 2013 at 08:40 PM

PetKal
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p.17 #19 · p.17 #19 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

big country wrote:
i put an order in and sunday and it shipped yesterday. i guess not all us sources are exhausted, just the big boys. i may have another one in the next week or two.

Good going

Unfortunately, Canadian CPS members have to buy the lens from an authorised Canon Canada dealer, obviously in Canada, in order to get the purchase price discount.
I say "unfortunately" because nobody seems to have those lenses available for sale in Canada at this time, and the dealers can't even say when is that they might get some.

Jun 18, 2013 at 09:11 PM

MDJAK
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p.17 #20 · p.17 #20 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Am I totally off base to expect built in TCs in super primes in the future?

Jun 18, 2013 at 09:27 PM

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