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Archive 2013 · Buying (or not) 200-400L

  
 
corndog
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p.2 #1 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Please add this to the poll: I'm not buying it because the price is ridiculous. Relative to the Nikkor version, I've decided that paying over $5,000 for a built in teleconverter may not be the best use of my funds.


May 16, 2013 at 01:07 AM
Derek
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p.2 #2 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Just an extra comment from past experience using the Nikon 200-400's ....

After using the Nikon 200-400's extensively for the past 3 years, I can tell you a 200-400 zoom (be it Canon or Nikon) IF you WORK in sports photography for a living, will earn you a lot more money than a 300 2.8 or 400 2.8, fact of the matter is you will get way more shots composed and framed up better that a fixed prime will never get in the heat of the moment, especially in most field sports, swimming, diving etc,

The lack of a stop is not a major set back anymore with the new bodies in both brands being so good at hi ISO's



May 16, 2013 at 03:03 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #3 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


I'm in.

Agree with Derek's posts too.

I thought this piece on CPN summed it up nicely.

F/4 is not a significant restriction like back in the days when shooting grainy high speed film where f/2.8 or faster was preeminently desirable. I can remember idle banter and rumors about potential 500/2.8s. Now that Sigma actually produced one, I don't think anyone really cares any more. It's ridiculously huge and expensive, addressing what is now pretty much a non-issue (greater light gathering to compensate for poor higher ISO options).

As for cost of entry... this lens is about $1000 CAD more (as a numerical value) than each of my first two 400/2.8s back in the 90s. It seems we've all been fairly spoiled by the relatively cheap super-tele prices of the mid 2000s that are now on the way out as the manufacturers refresh with new models. Indeed, from a working photographer's perspective, raising the cost of entry is not entirely unwelcome. But realistically, a lot can be done with 'lesser' equipment options that in some respects make it increasingly difficult to justify the top-shelf gear.



May 16, 2013 at 03:40 AM
PetKal
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p.2 #4 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


There seems to be lots of unbraidled enthusiasm for 200-400L everywhere. Some of it is endorsements paid by Canon (shilling), parhaps also unquestioning faith in Canon's top echalon gear.

However, before we get independent and experienced reviews in, I'd maintain a cautious stance.

Let me also repeat something I wrote about 200-400L vs. 400 f/2.8 yesterday:
you can crank up ISO all you want, but that will not make the zoom perform on the level of faster primes in regards to:

(1) AF (particularly low light)
(2) bokeh/subject isolation
(3) AF responsiveness with 2xTC

My technical concerns revolve around several issues such as these:
(1) AF drive response on the full focussing distance range, i.e., 2m to infinity, with and w/o TC dialed in.
(2) IQ consistency thru the entire FL range.
(3) Copy-to-copy IQ variations.
(4) Mechanical/optical integrity after a year or so of frequent use.
(5) Resistance to dust penetration.



May 16, 2013 at 04:45 AM
Peacekpr
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p.2 #5 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Are they kidding me? This lens is obviously intended to crush the Sigma 50-500. I don't believe it was necessary though. A 100-400L delivers far better IQ than the Sigma even when you digitally extrapolate to an equivalent 500.

I'd next like to point out the cost. A good 100-400L can be bought for under $2000. A 1.4L for under $500... why would I pay $12000? This makes no sense to me. I'd rather keep my 100-400 and spend the cash on a large prime.

I think Canon has completely misread their customers on this one.



May 16, 2013 at 05:02 AM
Stoffer
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p.2 #6 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Peacekpr wrote:
I think Canon has completely misread their customers on this one.


You can say a lot of negative things about Canon and their prices, but they're not bold enough to send a product on the market that their marketing folks hasn't approve of and tested on focus groups. On the contrary, sometimes I would like their engineering teams to have more to say.


Besides, when 43% want it here on FM, I don't think one can say, that they "completely misread their customers ". But we can agree that the price is way out of reach for most of us. Way out.


"Happy Shooting"




May 16, 2013 at 06:42 AM
EB-1
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p.2 #7 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Stoffer wrote:
You can say a lot of negative things about Canon and their prices, but they're not bold enough to send a product on the market that their marketing folks hasn't approve of and tested on focus groups.


I think Canon has been quite obvious that they are mainly interested in pros and mainly sports at that, i.e. "sports and wildlife." I also think they are assuming that sports photographers are strong individuals to handle that excessive bulk/weight.

EBH



May 16, 2013 at 06:59 AM
Wahoowa
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p.2 #8 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


I'll start by going to buy a lotto today.


May 16, 2013 at 07:50 AM
StillFingerz
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p.2 #9 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


No complaints here, Canon has always provided enough gear at near every level/segment of the photographic landscape. I as a passionate hobbyist can't afford pro gear but Canon services me with a line of bodies and lenses that meet my needs and beyond.

There are no big white f2.8 or Mark II guns in my budget/future, but a 300 f4L with IS sits on a 40D and makes me smile. A 70-200 f4L and 100L IS are within reach as is the 17-40L, so no wishing upon a star for a single lens that costs more then my entire kit.

My little 70-200 is a gem and has had both a 1.4x and 2x T/C attached. There's no doubt this new 200-400 will provide an extremely useful set of focal lengths in one package. Having an optical matched 1.4x built-in would be a huge bonus even for a cripple like me.

There is a silent want, but the need is weak at best, a 400 f5.6L is on my To-Get list and it's cost compared to this new 200-400L saves me 10k easy, that's enough for a snazy new powerchair with racing stripes

Those that can afford, go get one, post your images, they inspire as do your efforts/skills!

Jerry

'Happy Shooting Yakim' Wherever you might be I hope it's a photographically rich environment...



May 16, 2013 at 07:50 AM
abqnmusa
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p.2 #10 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


could not find the option

far too expensive and heavy


This makes the 400 F4 DO IS look like a bargain lens

Edited on May 16, 2013 at 08:04 AM · View previous versions



May 16, 2013 at 08:01 AM
Bones74
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p.2 #11 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


The thing is with the 200-400L (if Rouse is to be taken at face value that the sharpness matches the 600 ii) it no longer comes down to deciding between IQ and flexibility (100-400 vs 400 5.6 for eg). To me, it renders a f/4 prime like 500 ii undesirable in one fell swoop.

I know what the brilliant 500 ii can do, I had a CPS loaner for week, but what it can't do is zoom and allow me compositional flexibility. I prize that above outright IQ. (YMMV) I didn't really believe the 200-400L would launch at a price similar to the current 500 ii price, but I really was hoping! I'll wait a while to see if the price settles to around £8k in a year or so (unless I win the lottery ).



May 16, 2013 at 08:01 AM
gpchase
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p.2 #12 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


I'm with Scott and will be getting one soon...upon receipt and use I'll determine if I keep my 600ll and 400ll or not


May 16, 2013 at 08:10 AM
ggreene
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p.2 #13 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


StillFingerz wrote:
No complaints here, Canon has always provided enough gear at near every level/segment of the photographic landscape. I as a passionate hobbyist can't afford pro gear but Canon services me with a line of bodies and lenses that meet my needs and beyond.


I think for 99% of us the rumor of an updated 100-400 is far more interesting although I have a feeling we will be grumbling about that price as well.



May 16, 2013 at 09:00 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #14 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


PetKal wrote:
There seems to be lots of unbraidled enthusiasm for 200-400L everywhere. Some of it is endorsements paid by Canon (shilling), parhaps also unquestioning faith in Canon's top echalon gear.

However, before we get independent and experienced reviews in, I'd maintain a cautious stance.

Let me also repeat something I wrote about 200-400L vs. 400 f/2.8 yesterday:
you can crank up ISO all you want, but that will not make the zoom perform on the level of faster primes in regards to:

(1) AF (particularly low light)
(2) bokeh/subject isolation
(3) AF responsiveness with 2xTC

My technical concerns revolve around several issues such as these:
(1) AF drive
...Show more

I have to admit I do feel I'm taking a slight leap of faith and there is the constant reminder of my 1DIII experience back in 2007. That said, since then Canon's releases have been relatively trouble free. I was initially going to hold out on the 1DX too, but its massive adoption by photographers covering EURO 2012 and the Olympics significantly eased my concerns. Along with the 1DX, the 200-400 seems to have had a popular following at the Olympics, which isn't an event one would normally use unknown/untested gear that doesn't live up to expectations.

It seems other than for those where price isn't the primary deterrent, the differences of opinion we see here seem to boil down to those who are frequently focal length limited vs. those who aren't (as much). Yes, if you're photographing distant wildlife, a 500/600 with TCs, or the 800, makes sense. For me, the action is usually within a 200x53 yard playing surface (or smaller), around which I can move to better position myself at my discretion, and where in the past, a fixed 400 has sometimes been too tight.

Regarding the first three points:

(1) We shall see. Most venues I cover are sufficiently bright. There will probably be a measurable difference, but the question is whether it will be noticeable in actual use. I am curious though how it will work in most hockey arenas I've worked in the past year, where baseline exposure has been in the ISO 3200 1/500 f/2.8 region.
(2) Not a huge concern. Again, as I've found with the 70-200/4, I rarely missed not having f/2.8. There is still good bg separation and I'll take the trade for zoom flexibility. For my purposes, I've found a two-stop jump to have a much more noticeable aesthetic difference. I.e. f/2 vs. f/4 or f/2.8 vs. f/5.6, but not one stop. Theoretically, the 100-400 should be sufficient, but here the two-stop difference does have a more noticeable affect on bg separation and is less practical for night/indoor venues. And at the long end, that lens just doesn't seem to be in the super-tele class of sharpness wide open. Maybe the new version, if it ever comes, will be closer? If the 200-400 is inline with what I get from the 400/2.8 IS mkI, I'll be happy.
(3) I don't anticipate shooting with the 2x TC.

We shall see about the other 5 points. The massive number of elements in this lens does give some pause for the possibility of optical misalignment, either during manufacture or during heavy use...



May 16, 2013 at 12:37 PM
stan23
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p.2 #15 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Cost is subjective. I can buy one, but I have no need for one. I honestly was not surprised at the price, if you look at the technology involved to create such a lens.

Remember, this thing is aimed at pros who make their money by getting the shot.



May 16, 2013 at 01:39 PM
Imagemaster
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p.2 #16 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Peacekpr wrote:
Are they kidding me? This lens is obviously intended to crush the Sigma 50-500. I don't believe it was necessary though. A 100-400L delivers far better IQ than the Sigma even when you digitally extrapolate to an equivalent 500.

I think Canon has completely misread their customers on this one.



Too funny.

Yeah, Canon does not know what they are doing, and those that will buy this lens know nothing about photography.




May 16, 2013 at 02:07 PM
ragebot
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p.2 #17 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Just a quick random comment about zooms. Way back in the day I got a Sigma 300-800 and loved, and still love, that lens. I can recall capturing images of a wood stork feeding while standing on a berm along the side of a marsh. There was a guy with a 500 next to me and we were both getting great shots till the stork started waking towards us as the fish swam away from him. First the 500 guy took off the 1.4 missing several shots and then backed up till he was in danger of falling into the swamp on the other side of the berm. Sad to say his string of profanity was enough to cause the stork to move to another location.

Of course I had the 300-800 on a big tripod with a gimbal head and was a lot less mobile than when I shoot my 500 on a monopod or hand held; but I still love the 300-800. I would bet the Canon 200-400 will be even better than the 300-800 up to 560mm.

For lots of photography a zoom is the only way to get some shots. Of course I am not happy with the price, but then again I don't like $US4.00 gas.



May 16, 2013 at 03:08 PM
burningheart
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p.2 #18 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


Often wondered about the 300-800,


May 16, 2013 at 03:24 PM
StillFingerz
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p.2 #19 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


ggreene wrote:
I think for 99% of us the rumor of an updated 100-400 is far more interesting although I have a feeling we will be grumbling about that price as well.


No doubt if the 100-400L is updated and gets the new hybrid IS we're looking at a 2k lens...seems the trend for the Mark II designs. Many will wait things out, 3 to 6 months, or longer for a refurb...but I agree it's an upgrade many are eagerly anticipating. As one who is seriously thinking of the 400 f5.6L, I'm on hold for awhile. I'm hoping the 100-400 is a complete re-design, no more push/pull, but the traditional two ring style...I'm not a fan of push/pull!



May 16, 2013 at 03:55 PM
mogud
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p.2 #20 · Buying (or not) 200-400L


My 500 f4 IS v1 suits my needs quite nicely. While the 200-400 is appealing, I'd rather drop this amount of cash into a 600 II. Maybe in 12 or so months, after the reviews are out, my trusty 500mm might go towards the 200-400. I'm waiting and seeing.


May 16, 2013 at 04:07 PM
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