ct8282 wrote:
Tough one to gauge mate. From a C&C perspective I just can't get on board with 1, 2 or 3 at all. 4 to 8 are pretty nice shots and whilst you say they like 9, to me the overall feel of that shot is quite amateur snapshot like.
I think there are inconsistencies with the processing across the set, but as stated earlier you haven't really explained what the complaint actually is so its hard to provide our views on this really. If its just a style thing then I feel for you as you explained that you were constantly checking with them during the shoot. If they didn't steer you towards anything different then you can't be held accountable. If however they aren't happy with the processing of the set, for example, then perhaps we can offer our views, but more importantly maybe the set could be reprocessed.
In summary, get your client to be specific about the issues, if she hasn't already, and maybe give us a clue as to her complaints........Show more →
Issue was about the shooting style, she just wanted more fun, quirky, silly types of shots that are representative of who they are. Normally I pick up on their personalities and deliver the goods, but it just didn't happen this day. Has nothing to do with the processing. I don't do the exact same processing for every shot, as for me, I treat each shot as a standalone within a set.
A number of ppl have mentioned the number of pictures I mentioned. My processing is to provide 150-200 unedited pictures from which the clients may choose 10, 12, or 15 images for me to edit. It's a process that has worked well for me.
honestly you never know what people are going to like, I had a couple one time that I did take some of the "funny" shots and they did not want anyone else to see them even though it depicted the fun time we had, they were more into the normal portrait type stuff as far as images go, luckily there was a great mix of all of it in what I delivered. I think you did a great job with variety of types of images that you shared here, most couples would be thrilled with what you showed us. I know how hard it is to hear someone is not 100% happy with everything, I think it can happen to any of us eventually, and when something doesn't measure up we learn and apply it moving forward. I do find the clients who are the happiest are able to communicate well what they like and what they don't like as much. Do you connect with clients using pinterest? I encourage this with people I shoot for when I want to collaborate and get ideas of what they like.
You can't please everyone all of the time. That said, you may just want to stop and look at what your doing. It is absolutely your job to make your clients feel flattered in their photographs. Some people however are never satisfied, and it's your responsibility to screen them out. You have some repair work to do before the wedding. And personally, I think it might be difficult, I would either get them happy in hurry or just give them their money back now if you feel that they will never be satisfied.
Take them bowling or something. Shoot that. Do something fun. If that's what they're like, a successful shoot won't result from just showing up somewhere and walking around. Ask them what they like to do. THAT'S them.
friscoron wrote:
Issue was about the shooting style, she just wanted more fun, quirky, silly types of shots that are representative of who they are. Normally I pick up on their personalities and deliver the goods, but it just didn't happen this day. Has nothing to do with the processing. I don't do the exact same processing for every shot, as for me, I treat each shot as a standalone within a set.
A number of ppl have mentioned the number of pictures I mentioned. My processing is to provide 150-200 unedited pictures from which the clients may choose 10, 12, or 15 images for me to edit. It's a process that has worked well for me....Show more →
I feel a bit sorry for you then as I don't think this is really your own fault. You were showing them your shots and checking for their approval which they gave. They didn't steer you in a different direction, however at the same time they're not photographers and its hard for our clients to try and tell the photographer what style to achieve. I guess they count on the photographer to completely control the photographs and creative vision.
I think amonline made a great point above. Perhaps a different approach to venue and activity would really help to inject the energy and fun they're looking for. Certainly worth considering anyway and something like bowling would create some great opportunities for cool compositions, pov's, and generally catching them having fun together.
@sherijohnson, thanks! I think that's the part that threw me, that she didn't point out any pics that she did like... but I will do a re-shoot, and i will make them very happy. Trying to figure out how to use Pinterest, would like to.
@BrianVirts, Yep, agree that I can't always please everyone, but I really should have taken the shoot in a different direction. We went to locations that really didn't lend themselves to being a little quirky and fun. I'll change that for our next shoot. but I will win them back over, we actually developed a nice connection with them. It will work.
@Inku Yu, they wanted a more fun and goofy/silly shoot. They felt I went too romantic/eyes closed look, etc. But it wasn't really communicated, I didn't pick up on it. We'll do a re-shoot and they'll be happy.
@amonline -- exactly. What they wanted didn't really call for a traditional setting. Already coming up with new ideas.
@ct8282, that was the funny part. Based on how it was going, I felt that they wanted me to pose them the way I was. Missed out on some cues somewhere, should've picked up on them. Thanks!
I suck at doing the "fun" shots with couples...it is definitely something I am working on right now and talking about A LOT with my wife. We just actually received a semi-complaint (also the first ever) for the same type of reason. Too much posed, dramatic, romance-y type stuff (their photos looked great, btw...and she said that). She admits that it is mostly her fault because she did not really communicate that with us, and the only reason we found out was because it came up during the pre-wedding consult. In our defense, though, they were both very serious and non-jovial during the session, so we never would have realized that's what they were wanting in the first place.
Back to my original comment, though...I know I really need to up my game with coming up with more relaxed and fun things where (for the applicable ones) their personality can show through...if they are not already comfortable with letting it show.
As for the photos you posted...they are not groundbreaking, but they seem solid to me.
I was thinking more of the lines that during the shoot you would have pulled out that they wanted: fun.
None of us where there to hear/see the interaction. So tough to really give feedback.
My comment about being a pro .... is we put away what we want and give the client what they were looking for.
My 2 cents.... her being a cheerleader coach - you missed the boat on all but 2 shots.
This assumes she has a cheerleader personality with added maturity.
A couple of the other shots would be okay if there where additional 'fun shots'.
On the other-hand; there are very introverted clients that can be picky or the ever fun controlling personality types.
Again just my 2 cents .... pretty easy to leave on the side of the road and drive away.....
joelconner wrote:
I suck at doing the "fun" shots with couples...it is definitely something I am working on right now and talking about A LOT with my wife. We just actually received a semi-complaint (also the first ever) for the same type of reason. Too much posed, dramatic, romance-y type stuff (their photos looked great, btw...and she said that). She admits that it is mostly her fault because she did not really communicate that with us, and the only reason we found out was because it came up during the pre-wedding consult. In our defense, though, they were both very serious and non-jovial during the session, so we never would have realized that's what they were wanting in the first place.
Back to my original comment, though...I know I really need to up my game with coming up with more relaxed and fun things where (for the applicable ones) their personality can show through...if they are not already comfortable with letting it show.
As for the photos you posted...they are not groundbreaking, but they seem solid to me....Show more →
The funny thing is, I really enjoy those types of shots. Really goes with my dance photography. But glad to hear you have experienced it as well -- "glad" in the sense that I'm not alone. I look forward to seeing what you come up with when you shoot some of these fun, silly shots in the future. I'm disappointed that it's going to be awhile before I can do a re-shoot.
Ziffl3 wrote:
friscoron,
did not intend to get under your skin.
I was thinking more of the lines that during the shoot you would have pulled out that they wanted: fun.
None of us where there to hear/see the interaction. So tough to really give feedback. My comment about being a pro .... is we put away what we want and give the client what they were looking for. My 2 cents.... her being a cheerleader coach - you missed the boat on all but 2 shots. This assumes she has a cheerleader personality with added maturity. A couple of the other shots would be okay if there where additional 'fun shots'. On the other-hand; there are very introverted clients that can be picky or the ever fun controlling personality types.
Again just my 2 cents .... pretty easy to leave on the side of the road and drive away.....
Go knock out the wedding! ...Show more →
Thanks, Mark. I appreciate the followup and I understand what you're saying. Bottom line, this is going to be a learning experience for me. I can't get better if I never stumble. I took your two cents and put it in my pocket.
I don't really think you can be successful shooting a style that isn't yours and really this sounds like a bad matchup - what examples did you show them prior to booking?
Ziffl3 wrote:
My comment about being a pro .... is we put away what we want and give the client what they were looking for.
I disagree with this.
The way I see it: If I do 'A', but not ''B' and a potential client wants 'B', then I'm going to refer that client to a friend that does 'B' very well. That way a friend of mine (hopefully) gets the gig and rocks 'B' like there's no tomorrow, the client is happy, and I don't put myself in a situation where I'm trying to do something that I may not want to do or don't do particularly well.
But that's just me. Someone who feels comfortable doing 'A' and 'B' is going to approach it differently.
@Mark_L and maxcell1295. I do agree with both of you that it's not a great idea to do a paid shoot in a style you're not comfortable with, or used to doing. I am comfortable doing these types of shots, we just didn't get it communicated.
Ron, first, I agree with you that her dress was not a good choice. Something about the middle and where the hem of this dress meets the legs on this subject does the opposite of what a good, flattering dress should do. And the shoes are a bad match, making the problem worse.
It's just conjecture, but I'd put money on the likelihood that this influenced the clients' dissatisfaction with the overall set. If she looked smashing in that dress, her response would have been different, I suspect. Not that she still wouldn't have wanted more whimsy, but probably less critical.
I've become much more confident about gently but firmly telling a client (man or woman, but women are more likely to take it personally if you're not good at delivering the advice) that an outfit doesn't work, and why. Take a couple of shots and, if you look at them and don't see a flattering angle or cut, and there's an alternate outfit available, just cut your losses and get to the next outfit. This is one of those things you need to add to your mental checklist if there are multiple outfit options.
Second, she's not thick, but her arm is not pencil-thin, and you'd do her a big service by getting it away from her body all the time. You can teach someone two or three things about posing ("always pull your outside arm back and away from your torso a little bit") at the beginning, and remind her throughout, and get better results.
You noted these two issues yourself, so you're aware of them, but if you'd acted on them, you'd like your results better, and she probably would, too, at least a little bit.
Thanks, Ian, for your detailed response. I think a lot of times, women like the look of a dress as they look at a mirror, or how it looks on a Size 2 model. And yeah, I know about getting the arm away from the body... I just need to actually execute that one... As for advising them on their clothing choices, when I can -- and I could have for this session -- I do need to be more assertive.
Bearmann wrote:
I think numbers 4 through 8 are quite nice. I don't know how long it's been, but I'll bet she is going to bond with the photos as time goes on.
thanks, Bearmann, I'm hoping that will be the case.
But, what's "fun" and/or "goofy"? To me, that sounds like jumping shots or peeking from behind tree shots or some other cliche/cheesiness. I simply don't show that stuff ever, so I don't know why any of my clients would ever request it.
So, what I'm saying is that if your clients are requesting them, maybe we should work on your presentation?
