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Archive 2013 · One year to learn....

volyrat
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · One year to learn....

I'll start by saying I'm not a natural people or portrait photographer. My eyes (and brain) see in telephoto and macro. I'm not a pro - photography is a hobby, not a profession.

But I've got a year to learn.

My daughter is a Sophomore in high school - they have a Junior Prom but do not have a Senior prom. Tonight, our neighbor's daughter attended her Junior Prom. She had 10-15 friends over pre-prom for pictures. And my daughter saw what was going on and decided that she wants me to take her and her friends pictures next year.

So I'm starting from scratch - candids, lighting, posing and post processing. I'm lucky that I've got a year to learn and already wondering if that's enough time. So where do I start? Where do I go to get better? I'm more than willing to invest the time, but really I don't know where to start. I'm always humbled by the high quality of work that so many of you produce, I can only hope to do half as well as you.

Here's a quick sample of my most recent attempts - my daughter and her Sophomore Formal: No group shots thanks to a 35 degree F and rainy night.

Katie - Soph Semi 050-1 by bobteixeira, on Flickr

Apr 26, 2013 at 08:58 PM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · One year to learn....

A year to learn. Sounds like a good project.
This pic is a nice start. Compositionally, look at the lamp shade in the upper left corner area. That could be cropped out to remove the distraction.

Another thing to look at. How much of her far arm do we see? Maybe more of it would look better. That means you move the camera a bit left. Watch for and avoid sliced fingers.

Apr 27, 2013 at 12:59 AM

Ian Boys
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · One year to learn....

I think that's a nice picture. As well as the lampshade on the left I'd remove the glass vases and maybe close the white door so it doesn't show in the mirror.

Apr 27, 2013 at 05:42 AM

volyrat
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · One year to learn....

Jim - thanks for taking the time to look and comment.

I looked at the other pictures I took and don't have anything more to the left, or with more of her arm.

Will definitely watch for that and fingers in the future.

Here's a second crop attempt. Tried not to chop her off right at the elbow, but it was pretty close.

Thanks again.

Katie - Soph Semi 051-3-2 by bobteixeira, on Flickr

Apr 27, 2013 at 05:49 AM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · One year to learn....

Nice crop.

Apr 27, 2013 at 06:54 AM

gome1122
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · One year to learn....

Just a thing that I hate in portraits is mirrors. I just don't think that they are very appealing.

Apr 27, 2013 at 07:15 PM

NoelSal
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · One year to learn....

Id turn off any lights if indoors, work with the natural light and window light. Trying to correct that White Balance with window light, tungsten is nuts! From a none Pro to another: Good luck take pictures of anything and anybody everyday and it will soon click.

Apr 28, 2013 at 11:10 AM

volyrat
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · One year to learn....

Thanks for the note.

My preference is definitely for natural light - unfortunately it was pouring rain and nearing sunset - not a bit of natural light to be had.

I'm hoping to luck out next year and get a bit of an overcast but not raining day. I'm not counting on it though - have to figure out how to use lighting when I have to.

Bob

NoelSal wrote:
Id turn off any lights if indoors, work with the natural light and window light. Trying to correct that White Balance with window light, tungsten is nuts! From a none Pro to another: Good luck take pictures of anything and anybody everyday and it will soon click.

Apr 28, 2013 at 09:04 PM

BigIronCruiser
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · One year to learn....

Take a look at Lisa Holloway's posts in this (People) forum. She's a freak of nature when it comes to natural light photography. Joe McNally (do a Google search) is a good source for speedlight photography. He's a Nikon shooter, but the concepts apply equally to Canon gear. Lastolite also has some decent videos on off-camera lighting with speedlights & various modifiers. The Adorama website has some nice videos that would be useful as a learning tool. Finally, do some periodic checks of the CreativeLive calendar - they run live broadcasts (as well as re-runs) on a variety of photography topics.

Apr 28, 2013 at 09:36 PM

volyrat
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · One year to learn....

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I've looked at Ms. Holloway's pictures and they are outstanding. I have no idea how she does it, but I hope to figure out at least a bit of it over the next year.

Thanks for the other references. I'll absolutely spend some time at each of them.

Bob.

BigIronCruiser wrote:
Take a look at Lisa Holloway's posts in this (People) forum. She's a freak of nature when it comes to natural light photography. Joe McNally (do a Google search) is a good source for speedlight photography. He's a Nikon shooter, but the concepts apply equally to Canon gear. Lastolite also has some decent videos on off-camera lighting with speedlights & various modifiers. The Adorama website has some nice videos that would be useful as a learning tool. Finally, do some periodic checks of the CreativeLive calendar - they run live broadcasts (as well as re-runs) on a variety of photography...Show more →

Apr 29, 2013 at 05:24 AM

jefferies1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · One year to learn....

First step I would suggest is turn your camera to Manual and flash to manual. Ok to keep the lens on AF but learn how to use it in MF in a dark room just in case. With all on manual you will see the relation of each function to the image. That includes White balance. Always do a custom WB as a starting point.

You need have a post processing program. Photoshop elements( under $100.00) would be a low cost option. I know Gimp is free but never used it. Get online and learn to use it. Much of what you see on this forum is a mix of a good image to start and excellent post processing to bring it to the next level. I would say 80% out of camera and 20% processing. It is always the little things that make an image stand out so that 20% processing says a lot.

Go look at art work...painted portraits. Study how the light and shadows fit the subject. Shadows are as important as light if in the correct places and correct amounts. Flat light is bad but so are harsh shadows most of the time. Always a balance and blend to look for bewteen light and shadows.

Apr 29, 2013 at 11:28 AM

jfinite
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · One year to learn....

I'm lucky that I've got a year to learn and already wondering if that's enough time.

Just take pictures...after that, take some more pictures. When you finish, shoot some more, then some more after that...

Apr 29, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Neddie Seagoon
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · One year to learn....

Repost this question in the "Lighting and Studio Techniques" forum and ask for Chuck. There's a guy there goes by cgardner who IS a professional and has some very useful tutorials that I can't seem to find right now. He used to hang out here in People as well but some FMer's find him a bit pedantic. Take it for what it's worth, if nothing else it'll get you thinking about the subject in new ways.

Apr 29, 2013 at 03:31 PM

volyrat
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · One year to learn....

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm fairly comfortable working with the camera in manual. That's typically how I'd shoot sports. Significantly less comfortable shooting with the flash in manual. Strobing is probably the area that I'm furthest behind.

Great point on practicing manual focus in the dark.

I've got the software to do PP - Lightroom and PS. If I'm shooting something in challenging light, I'll shoot in RAW, start in LR and move to PS for any heavy lifting. I need better technique with portrait photography since (in my opinion) it needs something different than landscape PP or even sports.

And great suggestion to go look at art. I appreciate the specifics regarding what to look for and where.

Thanks again,
Bob.

jefferies1 wrote:
First step I would suggest is turn your camera to Manual and flash to manual. Ok to keep the lens on AF but learn how to use it in MF in a dark room just in case. With all on manual you will see the relation of each function to the image. That includes White balance. Always do a custom WB as a starting point.

You need have a post processing program. Photoshop elements( under $100.00) would be a low cost option. I know Gimp is free but never used it. Get online and learn to use it. Much of...Show more →

Apr 29, 2013 at 05:50 PM

volyrat
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · One year to learn....

WIll do! and Thanks!

Neddie Seagoon wrote:
Repost this question in the "Lighting and Studio Techniques" forum and ask for Chuck. There's a guy there goes by cgardner who IS a professional and has some very useful tutorials that I can't seem to find right now. He used to hang out here in People as well but some FMer's find him a bit pedantic. Take it for what it's worth, if nothing else it'll get you thinking about the subject in new ways.

Apr 29, 2013 at 05:50 PM

TJ Asher
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · One year to learn....

NoelSal wrote:
Id turn off any lights if indoors...

I absolutely disagree.

When lamps like this are visible and not on they look dead. You want them on.

This is where your lights come into play. You light the scene and decide how much light to throw at it to either have the existing lamps contribute a little or a lot to the overall scene. You can balance your lights to match the existing lamps and blend or use a contrasting light temperature for an interesting effect.

I could go on and on about various things when photographing people but I'll briefly touch on a couple.

Posing. You need to get your subjects in good position for the camera. This shot is not bad but she could benefit from turning the far shoulder toward the camera a bit more. There are lots of resources and books on poses. Look at them and commit a bunch to memory so when you pose the subject you have a place to start. You will need to pose your subject because they won't really know what to do in front of the camera. People get self-conscious and don't know what to do with their bodies. Be prepared to step in and show them. Pose like you want them to pose so they can see it for themselves.

Camera angle. Generally best from slightly above eye line with the subject when doing a half body. Full body generally best from belly button to chest. A lot of that has to do with how much room you have to shoot in also. The closer you are for full body the more centered on them you want to be or you will get a big head and small feet, unless, of course, that is the look you are after. That could be fun too.

Experiment! Shoot! Shoot! Shoot! Shoot! Take a critical look at the shots and decide what you like and don't like about them. Look at photos of people you like and figure out why you like them. Dissect the photos. Is it composition, lighting, poses, mood?

Don't get too hung up on all the technical details or you may miss a magical moment.

Most importantly, have fun! If you have fun so will your subjects.

Cheers,
TJ

Apr 29, 2013 at 09:22 PM

Steve Wylie
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · One year to learn....

Let's go back to the beginning.... Ten to fifteen friends over for pre-prom pictures. In my neck of the woods, 99% of these shoots will be outside. So let's not get hung up on interior details. If I'm correct, then your interior shot won't be very instructive as a place to start. So I'd begin by thinking about the kinds of locations where her friends will want to shoot, and can you advise them on what might be a good location at the appointed hour. Where's the sun at that time and place? Do you need to fill in with flash, or can you get by with 100% available light? I see you're from Boston, a city with countless photogenic locations to make great images of individuals, couples, and groups. Use them. Environmental portraits are great for this kind of assignment. They're all about composition (placing your subjects in the environment), the expressions of the subjects, and the quality and direction of light.

Others above have offered guidance. I agree with using great portrait shooters like Lisa Holloway as reference points. Study her posts here to see how she uses the elements mentioned above. There are many online training sources to give you technical details and approaches that are very good. Kelby Training is tremendous. David Hobby (Strobist) is a wealth of information on how to use light, as is Syl Arena (for us Canon guys). But before getting bogged down in technique, talk with your daughter about what she'd like, and chart your course from there. Whichever way she goes, environmental or interior, there are paths available to you that will make your year fun and instructive.

And as Justin says above, keep shooting.

Apr 30, 2013 at 02:19 AM

NoelSal
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · One year to learn....

TJ Asher wrote:
I absolutely disagree.

When lamps like this are visible and not on they look dead. You want them on.

This is where your lights come into play. You light the scene and decide how much light to throw at it to either have the existing lamps contribute a little or a lot to the overall scene. You can balance your lights to match the existing lamps and blend or use a contrasting light temperature for an interesting effect.

Do youself a favor and turn them off use the window light, less of a headache. More time to focus on composition which is more important than what kind of effect you can get with tungsten and flash. When your ready kill the ambient with some strobes.

Apr 30, 2013 at 06:26 PM

volyrat
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · One year to learn....

Thanks for taking the time to post.

Any suggestions for books on posing? Agreed on committing them to memory - I'm actually thinking of "pre-shooting" a series of poses and group shots - before she and her friends get all made up - then printing them in a "book" to follow on the day, so I don't forget anything.

And thanks for the advice on camera angle.

I appreciate the help!
Bob.

TJ Asher wrote:
I absolutely disagree.

When lamps like this are visible and not on they look dead. You want them on.

This is where your lights come into play. You light the scene and decide how much light to throw at it to either have the existing lamps contribute a little or a lot to the overall scene. You can balance your lights to match the existing lamps and blend or use a contrasting light temperature for an interesting effect.

I could go on and on about various things when photographing people but I'll briefly touch on a couple.

Posing. You need to get your...Show more →

May 01, 2013 at 04:51 PM

volyrat
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · One year to learn....

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Regarding indoor vs. outdoor - I completely agree and hope to get weather that will allow the pictures to be taken outside. That said, the day I took the picture above was in mid April, it was 35 degrees F, the wind was blowing about 30 mph, and it was raining. This was actually rescheduled from March, due to a blizzard. So I'm hoping for the best and planning for anything.

Re: environmental portraits - I'm actually outside the city (one of those "where the heck is that" kind of places). But I'm very familiar with sun angle, shade, backgrounds etc in our area. I do like the idea of finding someplace that is indicative of our town to do some environmental shots. I'll have to see what my daughter wants to do.

Thanks for the recommendation on other resources too.

Bob

Steve Wylie wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning.... Ten to fifteen friends over for pre-prom pictures. In my neck of the woods, 99% of these shoots will be outside. So let's not get hung up on interior details. If I'm correct, then your interior shot won't be very instructive as a place to start. So I'd begin by thinking about the kinds of locations where her friends will want to shoot, and can you advise them on what might be a good location at the appointed hour. Where's the sun at that time and place? Do you need to fill in...Show more →

May 01, 2013 at 05:09 PM

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