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Archive 2013 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?

  
 
ppmax
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I'm shooting Canon...

I'm leaving for Hawaii in a few days and have booked a tour to Mauna Kea for some stargazing. I'm very excited but while I think I know my stuff Im staring to freak out since I haven't taken a star trails picture since high school (I'm 44).

Im looking for some great advice on a few things and am hoping to hear from you. Im looking for:

* Recommended starting settings for ISO, shutter and aperture for taking pics like this:
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090127.html

* Recommended starting settings for ISO, shutter and aperture for taking trails for staking (any recommendations for stacking sw?)

* What lens would you shoot first...and why? I've got Roki 85 1.4, Tokina 11-16 2.8, 25-105L, 70-200L 4 IS, plastic fantastic, and the 50 1.4.

* Creative ideas for a truly unique (for me) opportunity. I've got Yongnuo radio triggers, 2 canon speed lights, a sturdy tripod. Im on 5D3 and 7D.

Here are a few recent shots. I grade myself somewhere between decent and OK with my skills/gear.

2013-03-10_13-58-55_001 by ppmax, on Flickr


2013-03-10_14-39-03 by ppmax, on Flickr


2013-03-10_13-57-10_001 by ppmax, on Flickr

Im really excited but am afraid I'll mess it up. Help me bring back some keepers!

thx
PP



Mar 15, 2013 at 09:03 PM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Well I'll try to help as much as possible. But there are far better star shooters on here than me. So if one of them posts, listen to them not me :P. Plus I'm self taught, so I might of self taught myself wrong ha.

Anyway for lenses it all depends on the look you're going for, but if you want a milky way shot like the one you posted you're going to need to go wide. So your Tokina should do the trick, also having the wide aperture of 2.8 should help a lot. Plus wider lenses let you take longer exposures before hitting star trails.

My typical settings for the stars are f/2.8, ISO 3200 (1600 if your camera doesn't handle noise well), and usually 30-45 seconds. Always depends on the situation.

To get milky way you might be up late, because the clusters (at least that's what I call them) or the strongest part of the milky way, rise and set just like the moon. There are calculators on the internet to let you know when and where the milky way will be at what time. But in the northern hemisphere this time of year it doesn't rise till the wee hours of the mourning.

Now for foreground the picture, a lot of people recommend a composite shot. Maybe get a shot while the moon is out. And take your star picture later after the moon has set. Then stack the two together later in post. Otherwise you won't get great milky way with the moon out. And it's difficult to get great foreground without the moon.

Alright the final thing, star trails. For me I like to stack. I use the same settings I use for star pictures mentioned earlier and then lock the remote to get back to back shots. Then I use StarStax to stack them later. I like doing it this way because it increases my odds of getting something cool like a meteor in a shot I post. It also allows me to make a timelapse of the stars. Which someday I'd like to make into a short little movie.

Anyway, hopefully my advice isn't totally wrong! Have a great trip and I look forward to seeing the results!

Andy



Mar 16, 2013 at 01:12 AM
ppmax
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Andy, thanks for the great detailed post. I sort of cross posted this same question over at ars and a fellow named zAmboni posted nearly identical advice. (zAmboni's images are awesome and I really respect his skills).

It would be great to see the time-lapse movie you mentioned

I'll ask you what I asked him:
I read through Rob Dickenson's info and it was great. However after reading it I was a bit surprised by the recommendation to shoot wide open. I seem to remember (high school photography class was a long time ago) taking night shots at f8 or f11...the purpose being that the lens was typically sharper and you could leave your shutter open longer and get less ambient light.

Are modern lenses that much sharper wide open versus f8 in.....1985?

And regarding longer exposures (hours), is the purpose behind multiple exposures (typically minutes) and then stacking ultimately about cutting out sensor noise? Compared to my star trails pics back then, many star trail photos today don't have "smooth" trails...instead the trails appear to "pulse"

Thanks again for your reply and details. I wont post anything unless it's good.

PP



Mar 16, 2013 at 01:27 AM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Happy to help. Yes, the lens will be sharper at F8, but that's really if you're wanting to shoot star trails. Because you would need to use a longer exposure then your stars would start streaking at a certain point. The rule of 600 is a good one to remember if you want crisp star points. 600 divided by your focal length is the maxium time you can go before getting star trails. So if you're wanting milky way you're going to have to shoot either wide open or close to it to bring in the maximum amount of light while minimizing your shutter time to avoid star trails.

My lenses preform fairly well wide open, both my Tamron 10-24 f/3.5 which I used to use and my 16-35 f/2.8 are both fairly usable wide open.

This was shot with my Tamron in Africa last summer:
http://www.peakphotographymt.com/img/s8/v84/p1336341378-4.jpg

and this was shot this past summer with the same lens
http://www.peakphotographymt.com/img/s8/v80/p1398386958-4.jpg



The reason why star trails would pulse is because there is a gap in their shutter, whether it be the person deleting unwanted clips (maybe a plane flew over) or they are using a delayed shutter. Which you would do for a timelapse, but no for star trails. I have mine back to back.

These were shot with that method:
http://www.peakphotographymt.com/img/s4/v69/p1336341354-4.jpg

http://www.peakphotographymt.com/img/s4/v69/p1336356708-5.jpg


And here's an example of the timelapses I create when I'm out. Eventually I want to take clips from each and make a nice little film of Montana Skies.
http://youtu.be/qPs_jQJh4pU

You're more than welcome to check out the star shots I have on my website:

Night Skies (all are from Montana)
Namibian night skies

Hope that cleared some things up.

Andy



Mar 16, 2013 at 01:45 AM
kezeka
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


This is some very informative stuff - thank you so much for posting!



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:27 AM
hydrotoast
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


There was a very informative star trail tutorial posted by a member floris several years ago the links to his images no longer work but you can find the first one in the second link

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/725769/0

http://www.artinnaturephotography.com/photo/star-trails-over-the-racetrack/?search=startrails

Here is the link to the entire tutorial with the all images

http://www.artinnaturephotography.com/gallery/twilightarticle/

http://www.artinnaturephotography.com/page/startrailstacker/



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:55 AM
ppmax
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Thanks everyone for sharing the great information and detailed replies--much appreciated! I'll be channeling your advice as I dial in my settings in about a week.

[edit]
PS: Andy--awesome timelapse movie--thanks for sharing.

Thanks again--
PP



Mar 16, 2013 at 09:22 AM
onegreatcity
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


I learned some stuff here, thanks all!



Mar 16, 2013 at 09:48 AM
voltaire
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


For the Milky Way, start with your widest lens and shoot wide open at ISO 1600, 30 seconds as your baseline. From there you can adjust. I use a 15mm fisheye and sometimes rent a 14mm. Streaking happens beyond 30 seconds. With the fisheye, I can go up to 32 seconds.

Last week I shot the Milky Way using a Vixen Polarie that allowed me to shoot at four minutes. The challenge was the blurry foreground. I didn't bother to use the half star tracker setting but will use it tonight. Advantage of using the Polarie was I got more of the faint stars in my photo so the Molky Way looked denser. Milky Way started to show up on the south / southeast horizon at 3:00a.m. I shot until the early morning sunrise glow washed it out. Will post my pics later in the landscape forum.

For star trails, you need to decide whether you want to include Polaris which will give you the concentric circles or you want to shoot tight which will give you more lines. A foreground is always recommended to make it more interesting.

I would suggest using an intervalometer with the setting four minutes, forty frames with no gaps in between. You can leave the camera and shoot other things in the dark sky.

Hope this helps and wishing you clear skies on your endeavor.



Mar 16, 2013 at 10:20 AM
ppmax
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Voltaire--can't wait to see your shots. Please post a link when you get a chance.

Thanks for the recommendations as well. I just previewed the night sky with Stellarium and I think I'm going to have the moon...

>>Hope this helps and wishing you clear skies on your endeavor.
Crossing fingers for clear skies too!

PP



Mar 16, 2013 at 10:50 AM
ppmax
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


PeakPhoto wrote:
Alright the final thing, star trails. For me I like to stack. I use the same settings I use for star pictures mentioned earlier and then lock the remote to get back to back shots. Then I use StarStax to stack them later.
Andy


hi Andy--quick question: Do you postprocess for exposure, levels, etc before using StarStax? Or do you do post on the final output?

thx again
PP



Mar 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Sunny Sra
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Checkout the astro thread in the landscape forum. Send me your email and i'll send you the article floris had created.


Mar 17, 2013 at 11:54 AM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


ppmax wrote:
hi Andy--quick question: Do you postprocess for exposure, levels, etc before using StarStax? Or do you do post on the final output?

thx again
PP

I usually do both. Especially running noise reduction so the the final stack is clean. I also always shoot RAW and StarStax used to not be able to open RAW files, but the new version can I believe.

But then I'll take the final stack into lightroom and photoshop as well to clean it up even more and make the trails really stand out. I also will pull the best foreground shot from the stack and blend it in to the final stack. Otherwise the foreground can be really messed up in the final stack if a car drove by or someone had a campfire.



Mar 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
ppmax
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


Just wanted to thank you all again for the help...unfortunately my trip to Mauna Kea was cancelled due to crummy weather. Bummer!

While I'm disappointed the weather wasnt cooperating, it's a blessing to be on the big island and I've taken a bunch of great photos. I've got a ton of review to do when I get back next week and will post a pic from the trip later.

Thx again
PP



Mar 28, 2013 at 01:29 AM
rdcny
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Mauna Kea + Milky Way; How to?


https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1192050



Mar 28, 2013 at 05:13 AM





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